Matthew 12:40

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jamie

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The NASB translates the verse this way:

"It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin."

That is the only translation which makes sense. The "preparation day" was the day before the Sabbath, as witnessed by the words of Josephus here:

"...it seemed good to me and my counselors, according to the sentence and oath of the people of Rome, that the Jews have liberty to make use of their own customs, according to the law of their forefathers, as they made use of them under Hyrcanus the high priest of the Almighty God; and that their sacred money be not touched, but be sent to Jerusalem, and that it be committed to the care of the receivers at Jerusalem; and that they be not obliged to go before any judge on the sabbath day, nor on the day of the preparation to it, after the ninth hour" (Josephus, Ant. xvi. 6. 2).

Of course what Josephus wrote was not inspired of God but it is inconceivable that he would not know the meaning of the words "prepartion day."


There is nothing wrong with what Josephus wrote. It was the Preparation Day for Passover and Unleavened Bread.

So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews’ Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby. (John 19:42)​

Jesus died about the ninth hour on Preparation Day.​
 

Jerry Shugart

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There is nothing wrong with what Josephus wrote. It was the Preparation Day for Passover and Unleavened Bread.

The passover was already over by the time when the Lord Jesus was in the tomb (Lk.23:54-55):

"And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?" (Lk.22:11).​
 

steko

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There is nothing wrong with what Josephus wrote. It was the Preparation Day for Passover and Unleavened Bread.

So there they laid Jesus, because of the Jews’ Preparation Day, for the tomb was nearby. (John 19:42)​

Jesus died about the ninth hour on Preparation Day.

No, Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel at sundown the beginning of Nisan 15.

Preparation/ Paraskeue/ Paraskeve is the Greek word for Friday, since the first century. It is the 'preparation' for the weekly Sabbath.
 

jamie

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No, Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel at sundown the beginning of Nisan 15.

Preparation/ Paraskeue/ Paraskeve is the Greek word for Friday, since the first century. It is the 'preparation' for the weekly Sabbath.

Why don't you go by what scripture says instead of nursing your own little pet theory that conflicts with scripture?
 

jamie

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The passover was already over by the time when the Lord Jesus was in the tomb (Lk.23:54-55):

"And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?" (Lk.22:11).​

We're done.

:wave:
 

jamie

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That's directly from scripture and I demonstrated it.
Your's is the pet theory.
You ignore the plain text.

Nope. John said he died on Preparation Day. Preparation Day is not the Sabbath. He was entombed as the Sabbath began. After the Sabbath the women bought spices and oils to anoint the body and then rested on the weekly Sabbath.
 

steko

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Nope. John said he died on Preparation Day. Preparation Day is not the Sabbath. He was entombed as the Sabbath began. After the Sabbath the women bought spices and oils to anoint the body and then rested on the weekly Sabbath.

Do the chronological narratives of the gospels say that Jesus ate the passover with His disciples at GOD's appointed time, or not?
 

Jerry Shugart

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No, Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover at GOD's appointed time for all Israel at sundown the beginning of Nisan 15.

No, the passiver was always on the 14th.

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

We can know that in Egypt the children of Israel partook of the Passover on the 14th and not the 15th because of what is said here:

"The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians" (Num.33:3).​
 

steko

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No, the passiver was always on the 14th.

"And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD" (Num.28:16).​

We can know that in Egypt the children of Israel partook of the Passover on the 14th and not the 15th because of what is said here:

"The Israelites set out from Rameses on the fifteenth day of the first month, the day after the Passover. They marched out boldly in full view of all the Egyptians" (Num.33:3).​

The lambs were killed on the fourteenth day at 'even'.
The meal was after sundown which began the fifteenth.
 

Lon

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Lon,

re: "No, on the Gregorian calendar, a new day begins at midnight whereas the Jewish Calendar begins while people are still awake."

I was including midnight as part of the evening. I may be incorrect, though, in thinking that the "evening" mentioned in Genesis means the dark portion of the calendar day.

BTW, what would the period be called if someone was still awake at midnight?

At any rate, what is your point in-so-far as it relates to the OP?

As it relates to the OP, we'd have to understand that for a Hebrew, the next day started at about 6PM. As such, it is hard for us to calculate hours given in the scriptures because we tend to think Gregorian. It is importing presumption, I think, upon the texts. We are bring in an imposition that likely doesn't belong there in trying to figure out what is being said about 3 days, in more ways than one.
 

jamie

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Do the chronological narratives of the gospels say that Jesus ate the passover with His disciples at GOD's appointed time, or not?

No.

Jesus was the Lamb of God, he was the Passover.

Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. (John 18:28)​

The Passover animals were killed that afternoon on the 14th and the meal was eaten that night after sundown, which is the night to be much observed.

It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. (Exodus 12:42 KJV)​

The night to be much observed was on the 15th, the day Christ brought Jacob's people out of Egypt. The 15th is a Sabbath.

As Jesus was laid in the tomb that Sabbath began. After the Sabbath the women purchased spices and fragrant oils to anoint the body. They prepared the spices and oils and rested on the weekly Sabbath.

The women did not have access to the body until Sunday morning.
 

jamie

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Do the chronological narratives of the gospels say that Jesus ate the passover with His disciples at GOD's appointed time, or not?

For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat, this is My body which is broken for you, do this in remembrance of Me.”

In the same manner He also took the cup after supper saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” (1 Corinthians 11:23-25)​

The Passover for the church is a memorial service observed annually.
 

Jerry Shugart

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The lambs were killed on the fourteenth day at 'even'.
The meal was after sundown which began the fifteenth.

You are mistaken that the Jewish day began in the evening. In the twentieth chapter of the Gospel of John we see the following events events that happened on resurrection Sunday, the first day of the week:

"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre...Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her" (Jn.20:1,18).​

The next verse proves that the evening of that day did not start a new day but instead remained a part of the first day of the week:

"Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you" (Jn.20:19).​

Please explain how the evening which followed the morning part of the first day of the the week could still be the "first day of the week"?
 

steko

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No.

Jesus was the Lamb of God, he was the Passover.

Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover. (John 18:28)​

Read the chronology of Matthew, Mark and Luke step by step. They are clearly harmonious in marking the day on which the lambs were killed(14th) and that Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples at GOD's appointed time for Israel(15th).

Why does John 'appear' to be out of harmony with Matthew, Mark and Luke on this timeline?

Could John be speaking of some aspect of Passover week that is not readily apparent to our non-Jewish western thinking?

The Passover animals were killed that afternoon on the 14th and the meal was eaten that night after sundown, which is the night to be much observed.

It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. (Exodus 12:42 KJV)​

Yes, the lambs were killed on the afternoon of the 14th, however, John 18:28 is not referring to the 14th.
He is referring to the 15th, the day when all males made a freewill offering before the LORD, called the Chagigah and required ritual purity, thus Christ's accusers did not enter the Praetorium, lest they be defiled.

The night to be much observed was on the 15th, the day Christ brought Jacob's people out of Egypt. The 15th is a Sabbath.

Yes.

The first day being referenced in Ex 12:16 is the 15th, the feast of unleavened bread and is a 'holy convocation'. No work is to be done, but only that which is necessary to keep the feast. It is not a work-prohibition to the degree of the weekly seventh day Sabbath.

Exo 12:16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
Exo 12:17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.




As Jesus was laid in the tomb that Sabbath began. After the Sabbath the women purchased spices and fragrant oils to anoint the body. They prepared the spices and oils and rested on the weekly Sabbath.

Jesus was laid in the tomb on the afternoon of the 15th, just before sundown when the weekly seventh day Sabbath would begin.

Joh 19:42 There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation(paraskeue-Grk. Friday) day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.

Luk 23:54 And that day was the preparation(paraskeue-Friday), and the sabbath(Saturday) drew on.
Luk 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day(Saturday) according to the commandment.


Mark defines what the word 'paraskeue' means. It is the preparation for the weekly seventh day Sabbath.
On top of that 'Paraskeve' is the word used in Greece for our word 'Friday'. I had this discussion at the jail recently with a young Egyptian Coptic Christian, raised in Egypt. I asked him if he had ever heard the word 'Paraskeve'. He said, "Yes, in our liturgy, it's the day before the weekly Sabbath."

Mar 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,


The women did not have access to the body until Sunday morning.

True.


Luk 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week(Sunday), very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Mar 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.


Try reading the chronological narratives of Matthew, Mark and Luke without your preconceived notion of what John means by his language concerning the 'preparation'.

If you believe John is saying that Christ is crucified on the fourteenth when the lambs were killed in Israel, then you can't reconcile John with the narratives of Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Jesus ate the Passover at Israel's appointed time.

Mat 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
Mat 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
Mat 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
Mat 26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Mat 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Mar 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Mar 14:16 And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Mar 14:17 And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Mar 14:18 And as they sat and did eat

Luk 22:7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luk 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.


Luk 22:13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Luk 22:14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
 
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jamie

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They are clearly harmonious in marking the day on which the lambs were killed(14th) and that Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples at GOD's appointed time for Israel(15th).

If I understand correctly you are saying that Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples at GOD's appointed time for Israel (15th).

Is that correct?

If so when are you saying that Jesus was crucified?
 

steko

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If I understand correctly you are saying that Jesus ate the Passover with his disciples at GOD's appointed time for Israel (15th).

Is that correct?

If so when are you saying that Jesus was crucified?

Yes, I am saying that Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover at GOD's appointed time and that's what Matthew, Mark and Luke clearly say and John, as well, but not as clearly to the western reader.

It plainly says that Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover, that He was betrayed the same night and the next morning, still the 15th, He was crucified.

He was crucified on the morning of the 15th.
 

jamie

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He was crucified on the morning of the 15th.

Did you know the 15th is an annual Sabbath?

Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. (John 19:31)​

The 15th is an annual Sabbath referred to by John as a high day. The Greek word for high is megas meaning great.
 
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