Matthew 12:40
- Thread starter rstrats
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Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. (Mark 16:1)
Excellent point.
After a Sabbath the women bought spices.
After they bought their spices they then prepared their spices and rested on the weekly Sabbath.
This means there were two Sabbaths that passed while Jesus was buried.
Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. (Mark 16:1)
After they bought their spices they then prepared their spices and rested on the weekly Sabbath.
Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
(Luke 23:56)
(Luke 23:56)
This means there were two Sabbaths that passed while Jesus was buried.
genuineoriginal
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Sorry, but the culture at the writing of the Bible did not start counting by zero, since zero did not exist.
They started counting by one.
The culture did not count a day as 24 hours, they counted it as periods of daylight.
So, Sunday is one day, the daylight period before Sunday is the second day, the daylight period before that is the third day, and it always comes back to Friday when you count the same way that it was done in first century Judea.
Let's let someone familiar with the culture explain it, like Ignatius, who was alive during the time the Gospels were being written.
Ignatius - Epistle to the Trallians: IX
On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection.
On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection.
genuineoriginal
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No, Matthew 12:40 is only a problem for those that choose to ignore the cultural understanding of time when the Gospels were written and attempt to impose our modern cultural understanding of time instead.
Ignatius - Epistle to the Trallians: IX
"On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified..."
"On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified..."
Ok, so we know Ignatius did not make his assertion based on scripture.
Now it was the third hour and they crucified Him. (Mark 15:25)
The third hour (9 AM) was the time of the morning sacrifice.
Jesus died at the ninth hour (3 PM) the time of the afternoon sacrifice.
Now when the sixth hour had come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”
Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, “Look, He is calling for Elijah!” Then someone ran and filled a sponge full of sour wine, put it on a reed and offered it to Him to drink saying, “Let Him alone, let us see if Elijah will come to take Him down.”
And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last. (Mark 15:33-37)
Some of those who stood by, when they heard that, said, “Look, He is calling for Elijah!” Then someone ran and filled a sponge full of sour wine, put it on a reed and offered it to Him to drink saying, “Let Him alone, let us see if Elijah will come to take Him down.”
And Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed His last. (Mark 15:33-37)
genuineoriginal
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I am not sure what your point is, unless you are agreeing with me that time was counted differently in the first century.
At what hour did Ignatius say Jesus was crucified?
At what hour did Mark say Jesus was crucified?
genuineoriginal,
re: "No, Matthew 12:40 is only a problem for those that choose to ignore the cultural understanding of time when the Gospels were written..."
So to back up your assertion, how about providing an example from the time when the Gospels were written that shows a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights for a period of time when the period absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
re: "No, Matthew 12:40 is only a problem for those that choose to ignore the cultural understanding of time when the Gospels were written..."
So to back up your assertion, how about providing an example from the time when the Gospels were written that shows a phrase stating a certain number of days and/or a certain number of nights for a period of time when the period absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of the specified number of days and at least parts of the specified number of nights?
genuineoriginal
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Didn't you read the quote from Ignatius?
Right Divider
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Friday, Saturday, Sunday.... I count three.They will not give up there pagan holidays and traditions so matter how you slice it. they will say good friday to easter sunday... even tho at best thats 2 days.. At least they agree he didnt work on this sabbath
genuineoriginal
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We know what Peter taught Mark about the crucufixion, but Ignatius was a student of the Apostle John.
What did John teach Ignatius about the crucifixion?
JosephR
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Well as I said you won't think outside of your tradition , let me ask you this when you get off work on Friday and go back on Monday how many days do you have off? Do you count Friday ? You can't count Friday if you worked and you can't count it as a day in the grave when your alive, same thing with Sunday
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Ok, RD, you're good about sticking to scripture. The sign Jesus gave was the sign of Jonah. As Jonah was in the fish for three days and three nights so Jesus would be in the ground for three days and three nights.
What was the sign? The sign was the amount of time he would be in the ground. How long did Jesus say he would be in the ground? Was it three days and three nights? Yes, three days and three nights.
Is a night and a day a twenty-four hour period of time? If so, would three twenty-four hour periods of time equal 72 hours?
Scripture does not say that Jesus was buried the same day that he died. This eliminates any part of Friday.
Are you with those who claim that Jesus could not have possibly meant what he said?
Right Divider
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Firstly, I was not raised in a church "tradition" so I think that all of you that keep saying that to me should get over it.
Secondly, it does not matter one bit how you or I account time TODAY. The question is: What did He mean when HE say it there in the culture that HE lived in?
And has been shown is that even the phrase "day and night" can still mean any part of a day IN THEIR CULTURE of THAT TIME (both the speaker and His audience).
Right Divider
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So are you trying to say that the Jews would have allowed Him to be buried on the Sabbath day?
JosephR
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That's the point he could not die on Friday then rise Sunday if he was in the grave three days and nights
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Jesus died about 3 PM, the Sabbath began at 6 PM. Nisan 15 occurs on the full moon after the vernal equinox so an hour would be about 60 minutes giving approximately three hours to get Jesus buried. Joseph had to get permission to remove Jesus from the cross. By the time they got him buried the Nisan 15 Sabbath began.
The KJV says the Sabbath "drew on" but the RSV gives a more accurate translation of the Greek epiphosko by saying the Sabbath was beginning.
It was the day of Preparation and the sabbath was beginning. (Luke 23:54 RSV)
If a man has committed a sin deserving of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day so that you do not defile the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)
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