ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

[Jacob]

No - YOU think YOU understand the NC DID come.

If it DID we would NOT be having these debates. WHEN it does, ALL WILL KNOW IT.

YOUR problem is NOT with RD's assertions, it IS with YOUR comprehension.

Fool - if it DID come - we would NOT be having these debates.

Fool - that YOU HAVE TO post "I don't understand what you mean by that" WOULD show ANYONE with COMMON sense that THEY THEMSELVES are proving HOW clueless they are.

IF IT CAME - YOU - would NOT be posting "I don't understand..."

Turn the light on already, fool.

I don't know what the problem is that you have with me. Have you read the verses in the Bible that speak of the new covenant?

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks for confirming that there is no water command in Romans 10.

Obeying Jesus is the command. Jesus commands water baptism.

ONCE AGAIN, it does NOT says "what you must do TO BE SAVED".

The scripture do say what we must do---we must do what Jesus says.

 

[God's Truth]

You can't write off Jesus' words just because he died.

 

[Jacob]

So you one of those that cannot tell the difference between things that are different?

The gospel of the kingdom is NOT the same as the gospel of the grace of God.

To you the new covenant has not come. You ought to change your position on this. The gospel is the power of God for salvation to the Jew first and also to the Greek. It does not say the gospel is the power of salvation to the Jew in one version of the gospel and to the Greek in another version.

The reason that I understand it is because the scripture is clear about what it will be like when it does come.

What is the "times of refreshing" and how will you know it when you see it?

If you read through to verse 26 it will be helpful to you.

 

[Jacob]

Here are the verses in the Bible that speak of the new covenant. I don't know how anyone can conclude it hasn't come yet and believe all that is in the Bible.

Jeremiah 31:31 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Luke 22:20 NASB - 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB - 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:8, 13 NASB - 8 For finding fault with them, He says,"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; ... 13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:15 NASB - 15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12:24 NASB - 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

 

[God's Truth]

No Record of Paul's Water Baptism

There is no record of Paul ever being water baptized. There are only two passages in the entire New Testament that mention Paul being baptized. But which baptism did Paul receive?

Acts 9:17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. 20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.

Later in Acts 22, Paul himself recounts these events to a crowd.

Acts 22:11 My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me.12 "A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. 13 He stood beside me and said, 'Brother Saul, receive your sight!' And at that very moment I was able to see him. 14 "Then he said: 'The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

Does "washing" indicate water baptism over baptism in the Holy Spirit? The answer is NO.

The Greek word for "wash" here, we find it occurs only one other place in the entire New Testament. The word for wash is "apolouo" and it is defined as follows.

628 apolouo {ap-ol-oo'-o}
from 575 and 3068; TDNT - 4:295,538; v
AV - wash away 1, wash 1; 2
1) to wash off or away

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

First Corinthians clearly states that we are washed by the Spirit. And in the phrase "by the Spirit," the Greek word for "by" is "en." It is defined as follows.

1722 en {en}
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); TDNT - 2:537,233; prep
AV - in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62, through 39, misc 264; 2800
1) in, by, with etc.

Compare the use of "en" in the following passages where it is also used with "the Spirit." Notice that all six of these occurrences are in the very verse where both John the Baptist and Jesus distinguish between the two baptisms.

Matthew 3:11 he shall baptize you with [1722] the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:8 he shall baptize you with [1722] the Holy Ghost.

Luke 3:16 he shall baptize you with [1722] the Holy Ghost and with fire:

John 1:33 he which baptizeth with [1722] the Holy Ghost.

Acts 1:5 but ye shall be baptized with [1722] the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by [1722] one Spirit are we all baptized [907] into one body...

All six of these passages exactly parallel I Corinthians 6:11 in the Greek. So, in reality, I Corinthians 6:11 directly states that we are "washed...with the Spirit of our God." It is unequivocally a reference to the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And this is the only other occurrence of this Greek word for "wash" in the entire New Testament. So, we can only conclude based on the two items Ananias was sent to accomplish and the use of this Greek word "wash" that the baptism Paul received in Acts 9 was baptism in the Holy Spirit, NOT baptism with water.

The point of this short exercise is only to prove that we have no evidence that the apostles, the rest of the 120, Apollos, or Paul were ever baptized with water in the name of Jesus. These facts present a compelling case that baptism in water in Jesus' name was not considered necessary for salvation.

In the end, we have no choice but to conclude that baptism in the Holy Spirit is the essential baptism (Ephesians 4:4-6), the baptism which "now saves us" (1 Peter 3:21), because that is the manner in which we "receive the Holy Spirit" (John 7:38-39, Acts 10:44-48, 11:15-17.) The simple truth is that "baptism in the Holy Spirit" is the Biblical term for our receiving the Holy Spirit and therefore becoming reborn.

What Water Baptism IS NOT:

1. Water baptism is NOT the baptism by which we enter into Christ or enter into Christ’s death.

2. Water baptism is NOT the pure water which cleanses our bodies.

3. Water baptism is NOT the first fruit or act of repentance.

4. Water baptism is NOT the source of assurance of salvation.

What Water Baptism IS:

1. Water baptism IS an explanatory illustration or antitype.

2. Water baptism IS a public expression of repentance that has already occurred.

3. Water baptism IS a public expression of petitioning God for forgiveness.

====

Christ water baptism WAS TO anoint him as king, as high priest, and to wash him as the sacrifice for the sins of the world.

None of these factors are applicable to us. And the biblical reason for Christians to be water baptized (to express repentance and as a means for the forgiveness of sins) are NOT applicable to Christ. Therefore, we are NOT biblically or logically justified in making assumptions about Christ’s water baptism and general Christian practice.

It is a long article:
http://www.biblestudying.net/baptism6.html

Water baptism is of water, and even Paul was water baptized. Are you saying the Christian Jews did not water baptize? I guess that messes up your insistence that Paul taught something different?

Paul was water baptized and even water baptized others.

 

[God's Truth]

Here are the verses in the Bible that speak of the new covenant. I don't know how anyone can conclude it hasn't come yet and believe all that is in the Bible.

Jeremiah 31:31 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Luke 22:20 NASB - 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB - 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:8, 13 NASB - 8 For finding fault with them, He says,"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; ... 13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:15 NASB - 15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12:24 NASB - 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

You are right about our having a NEW COVENANT.

The faith alone crowd and those who call themselves MAD believers tell us that they belong to something of an UNcovenant of sorts.

God makes promises through covenants, and if they insist they are not part of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, then they are not in his blood covenant. If they are not in Jesus' blood covenant, then how does his blood clean them?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You are right about our having a NEW COVENANT.

The faith alone crowd and those who call themselves MAD believers tell us that they belong to something of an UNcovenant of sorts.

God makes promises through covenants, and if they insist they are not part of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, then they are not in his blood covenant. If they are not in Jesus' blood covenant, then how does his blood clean them?

Was "Jesus" under the new covenant?

His Body was raised with him.

 

[Danoh]

I don't know what the problem is that you have with me. Have you read the verses in the Bible that speak of the new covenant?

Sheesh! Get - it - through - your - head - IF - the - N - C - HAD - come - YOU - WOULD - know - "what the problem is with" YOU.

What came WAS a foretaste - HAD BEEN a foretaste of THEIR "world TO COME" Heb. 2:5.

Can YOU do this?

Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

No, YOU can NOT.

Else I'd be dead...

My "problem" is NOT with YOU.

It is with this FOOL contention of YOURS out of YOUR mis-read of the passages.

 

[Jacob]

Sheesh! Get - it - through - your - head - IF - the - N - C - HAD - come - YOU - WOULD - know - "what the problem is with" YOU.

What came WAS a foretaste - HAD BEEN a foretaste of THEIR "world TO COME" Heb. 2:5.

Can YOU do this?

Acts 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5:5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

No, YOU can NOT.

Else I'd be dead...

My "problem" is NOT with YOU.

It is with this FOOL contention of YOURS out of YOUR mis-read of the passages.

I actually don't know what you are talking about. What I know is that the new covenant has come, according to scripture.

 

[Danoh]

I actually don't know what you are talking about. What I know is that the new covenant has come, according to scripture.

Elsewhere, someone posted what I understood to be a thought along the line of...

The spirit or intent of the OT had been the revealing of the righteousness of God; of God's absolute, perfect standard of righteousness.

Whereas the spirit or intent of the NT had been said righteousness made man's through the Spirit.

Made possible by the sacrifice of Christ and then given man freely through the Spirit - unto the Father's glory in His Son by the Cross.

This is the glory of the Godhead. To add one's works to that is to ignorantly deny the Father's intended glory by the Spirit in His Son alone.

At the same time, hand with that ignorance is to confuse the Father's intended glory in that as to His NC for, with, and in Israel, through the Twelve's preaching in Acts 3 (which began in Acts 2 with that Pentecost), with the Father's intended glory in His New Creature: the Body of Christ, through Paul's distinct gospel in Acts 13 (which began in Acts 9 with its first member, Paul).

Both Israel and the Body of Christ are God's Two-Fold Purpose in His Son by the Spirit, Eph. 1:10; Eph. 3:15.

But neither is the other, Rom. 11:25.

The grafting in is not into Israel (during Israel's temporary fall and delay of its promised NC blessing).

Rather, the grafting in is into access to blessing.

Eph. 2 refers to that as "having been made nigh."

Israel had once had access to blessing. Eph. 2 refers to this as "them that were nigh."

Israel will one day have access to their promised NC - "for this is my covenant unto them," Rom. 11.

The Body's blessing is not by Covenant unto them.

Rather, by Mystery Grace in a New Creature, Eph. 3.

The confusion many turn this into being due to the fact that both are through the Spirit.

Whether individual Jew (not Israel) and individual Gentile in the Body now, or the nation Israel over the Gentile nations then; on Earth (the Body in the Heavenlies by then).

 

[Jacob]

Elsewhere, someone posted what I understood to be a thought along the line of...

The spirit or intent of the OT had been the revealing of the righteousness of God; of God's absolute, perfect standard of righteousness.

Whereas the spirit or intent of the NT had been said righteousness made man's through the Spirit.

Made possible by the sacrifice of Christ and then given man freely through the Spirit - unto the Father's glory in His Son by the Cross.

This is the glory of the Godhead. To add one's works to that is to ignorantly deny the Father's intended glory by the Spirit in His Son alone.

At the same time, hand with that ignorance is to confuse the Father's intended glory in that as to His NC for, with, and in Israel, through the Twelve's preaching in Acts 3 (which began in Acts 2 with that Pentecost), with the Father's intended glory in His New Creature: the Body of Christ, through Paul's distinct gospel in Acts 13 (which began in Acts 9 with its first member, Paul).

Both Israel and the Body of Christ are God's Two-Fold Purpose in His Son by the Spirit, Eph. 1:10; Eph. 3:15.

But neither is the other, Rom. 11:25.

The grafting in is not into Israel (during Israel's temporary fall and delay of its promised NC blessing).

Rather, the grafting in is into access to blessing.

Eph. 2 refers to that as "having been made nigh."

Israel had once had access to blessing. Eph. 2 refers to this as "them that were nigh."

Israel will one day have access to their promised NC - "for this is my covenant unto them," Rom. 11.

The Body's blessing is not by Covenant unto them.

Rather, by Mystery Grace in a New Creature, Eph. 3.

The confusion many turn this into being due to the fact that both are through the Spirit.

Whether individual Jew (not Israel) and individual Gentile in the Body now, or the nation Israel over the Gentile nations then; onn Earth (the Body in the Heavenlies by then).

You have a lot of ideas. I encourage you to evaluate your position on if the new covenant has already come. I believe it has.

 

[Danoh]

I'm done with your rebellion in your fool ignorance "Jacob."

 

[Cross Reference]

I'm done with your rebellion in your fool ignorance "Jacob."

What is it don't you understand that you ignore redemption as being the new covenant initiated entirely by God?

 

[Jacob]

I'm done with your rebellion in your fool ignorance "Jacob."

Danoh,

I don't even know what you are talking about. Are you a minister of the new covenant? Paul was.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Danoh,

I don't even know what you are talking about. Are you a minister of the new covenant? Paul was.

Paul was a minister of the spirit of the new testament, which is the righteousness of God.
That is what the passage you are referring to says.

 

[Jacob]

Paul was a minister of the spirit of the new testament, which is the righteousness of God.
That is what the passage you are referring to says.

What verse are you referring to?

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What verse are you referring to?

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

And the following verses which explain further...

 

[Jacob]

And the following verses which explain further...

I was responding to your post. This verse does not say what you said it says. You are here saying this is or was the verse you were referring to. Sorry, but the verse does not read the way you believe it does.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I was responding to your post. This verse does not say what you said it says. You are here saying this is or was the verse you were referring to. Sorry, but the verse does not read the way you believe it does.

Look at the entire passage.

1. What is the spirit of the new testament?
2. How did Paul minister the spirit of the new testament?


Just pay attention to what you are reading.