ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

andyc

andyc

New member
musterion said:
Yes we do. Make no mistake.



Colossians 2:13.

The carnal, sinning Corinthians were all considered saints ("sanctified ones") by the apostle Paul.

You are dismissed, unless you can explain why a completely forgiven and reckoned dead to sin believer must also confess sins in order for them to be forgiven. Square that circle or be silent.
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It was a stern wake up call by Paul to the Corinthians, and you want to read 2nd Corinthians as well, and Galatians where Paul even questions whether his evangelism to them was in vain (Gal 4:11).
 
andyc

andyc

New member
john w said:
Kids learn through repetition. And you are beginning to bore me.


Translated: I, Dirty Derf, assert that all scripture is about me, written to me, specifically, and is for my obedience.


The devil taught you that-the LORD God never did.


"You leave out scriptures you don't agree with,"-DD

No, demon, I consider things that differ, study the details of the book, in the context of 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, recognizing what preceded it, and follows, to whom it was written, and under what dispensation, and whether the context is the prophetic program, or mystery program.

That, perverter, is reasonable, intelligent, bible study.

Contrasts, between you, a "blender," and me.

I like 'em, Mikey.




Sell all you have.


I thought so. Fraud.

Next up, part of "the trifecta?:

2. You bible ripper, John W....

3 You cherry picker, John W....


Take a seat.
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How many people in the new testament sold all they had?
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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andyc said:
How many people in the new testament sold all they had?
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John W. and many others here do not understand that Jesus only expected some to sell all they had and follow him...those were those who followed him and preached the gospel while Jesus was on earth.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
God's Truth said:
...You believe no one can obey without God making one obey. That is a false teaching from Luther and Calvin, as they were taught by Augustine.
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:yawn: I reject the teachings of Luther, Calvin and Augustine.

You've never done
emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif
a good thing (Ro 3:12). You are not saved (2 Pe 2:1).
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

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andyc said:
It was a stern wake up call by Paul to the Corinthians, and you want to read 2nd Corinthians as well, and Galatians where Paul even questions whether his evangelism to them was in vain (Gal 4:11).
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:thumb:

The punishment for sin by the sanctified ones who never repent to be much greater, is what Paul was attempting to convey. That is why I believe the KJV translation has Eph 1:1 saying it this way:

"I Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:: Ephesians 1:1 (KJV) Further:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
 
john w

john w

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andyc said:
How many people in the new testament sold all they had?
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You missed it, so, I will slow it down for you:

"You leave out scriptures you don't agree with,"-DD

I know that's quite deep.....inhale it.

Rightly divide the word of truth....


The Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to sell all:

Command given: Mt. 19:21 KJV, Mk. 10:21 KJV;Luke 12:33 KJV, Luke 18:22 KJV
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27 KJV;Mk.10:28 KJV;Luke 5:11KJV, Luke 18:28 KJV, Acts 2:44-45 KJV,Acts 4:32-34 KJV
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV

Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44 KJV, Acts 4:32-34 KJV , Acts 3:6 KJV?

Well?


"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV


Have you sold all your possessions? This is one of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, in simple, 6th grade English, Jethro:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21 KJV

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." Luke 12:32-33 KJV

("Extra credit" on this test! Please elaborate as to why you do or "do not the things" of giving alms, since obviously the body of Christ is being addressed here-"little flock"=the body of Christ.)

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV

Read it-"sell all that thou hast,"

Any answer along the lines of "He really did not mean that literally- He was merely ONLY attempting to teach/convey a spiritual truth", or, "that was before the cross and the resurrection", will be "red marked" as incorrect, and "non responsive/incomplete", for the disciples did exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said, both before and after the death, burial, and resurrection:

"before"

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" Matthew 19:27 KJV

Read it-"we have forsaken all,"

"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

Read it-"we have left all"

"after"

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6 KJV

That is why Peter said "Silver and gold have I none;"-he sold it all, per direct orders, from the Commander In Chief, the Lord Jesus Christ, the reason being in the context of the impending(at that time) "Great Trib."

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"/They sold their homes, land.
Communism, folks. Anyone doing that today? I thought so. Watch the upcoming spin.....Watch.



(PS: "Extra credit" on this test! Provide your analysis as to the merits of communism, i.e., "...all things common..." vs. "free enterprise"/"capitalism", per Acts 11:29 KJV ,"every man according to his ability...", " today. And we must "leave out "

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8 KJV

since, obviously Paul had not read the previous cited scriptures. Why Paul?!)

Penalty for disobedience:death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV, per Numbers 15:29-31 KJV :

"Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

I expect each and every believer to "Produce your cause......bring forth your strong reasons...", as to why you do obey these commands, or, conversely, why you "....do not do the things which I say..."(Luke 6:46 KJV). If you do obey these commands, I would at least respect your intellectual honesty, and your consistency.

As Elijah of old demanded, and I likewise demand: "...How long halt ye between two opinions?..." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)

And I do not expect "....And the people answered him not a word...." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)
 
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john w

john w

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Hall of Fame
God's Truth said:
John W. and many others here do not understand that Jesus only expected some to sell all they had and follow him...those were those who followed him and preached the gospel while Jesus was on earth.
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No, we understand that you are a whited wall, as you, in deceit, "argue:"

"Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone.....We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says."”-God’sUNTruth

...and when we counter, with the argument that not all scripture is about us, written to us, for our obedience, you go into your little hypocrite tantrum act, accusing others of "not obeying Jesus," like you allegedly always do.


Let me guess your spin, dodge ball, tap dance with a cane, and top hat, do the hokey pokey, and spin all about, ...."response:"


No, no, no, my dearmisguided John W, who does not "follow Jesus" like I do, you and many others here do not understand that "always," does not really mean "always," "all of," does not really mean "all of," "everything," does not really mean "everything...." Why are you "mocking Jesus?"


Fraud-ette.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

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Hall of Fame
andyc said:
@ Derf

You'll need a quick crash course to understand the kind of people you're dealing with here. People like john w, stp, musterion, heir, and nickm, are hyper dispensationalists, or to be exact - "Mid Acts Dispensationalists" - MAD (appropriate acronym).
Until you understand the angle they are coming from, you'll be scratching your head wondering why you seem to be talking past each other when discussing various theological topics. This is what cults do. They like to confuse, in order to feel as though they have the upper hand. Then if you flat out reject something they say, they throw their toys out of the pram, as you've seen already with W particularly.

Think of madists as modern day gnostics. Everything they teach is basically from an assumption that man doesn't have an eternal spirit. While on earth, man is physical, and that's it. The evangelical understanding of the need to be born again, is absent from their thinking. Evangelicals teach the need to be born of the Spirit, but madists have no idea what this means. They think that being born again simply means being resurrected with a new body. The significance of this error, means that their understanding of how justification works becomes very controversial. The transition from Romans 7 to Romans 8, from walking in the flesh to walking in the Spirit, is totally confusing from their perspective.
How can a person feel justified while walking in the flesh? You can't, because those who walk in the flesh are condemned in their conscience. So how can this condemnation be removed?
Instead of realizing the need to walk in the Spirit, they remove the moral law completely. It's a little bit like going back to Adam in the garden before he sinned, the only difference is that sin no longer matters because it has all been judged on the cross.

And so, if people have no moral restrictions placed on them, the flesh has nothing to rebel against. Therefore the madists have to accept that they are totally free to do anything they want to do, live any way they want to live, and it will not affect their relationship with God in the slightest. If it is impossible to sin, then there cannot be a commandment to violate. If there are no commandments to break, there can be no sin to commit. This leaves the carnal madists to feel justified in their natural selves, with absolutely no
sense of duty to be holy. This is the reason why they only ever talk about justification, and dispensational issues.

Obviously there is much written in the new testament showing us that we are accountable to live godly lives, and so how do madists deal with it? Well they simply remove about two thirds of the new testament as applying directly to them. Only a few letters of Paul are understood to have direct application to believers today.
They have invented three separate gospels. The gospel of the kingdom, where people have to obey the law and believe in Jesus (a contradiction). This wipes out the gospels, Acts, and letters by Peter, James, John, and Hebrews and Revelation, as having application today. There was also an intermediate gospel (Gospel of Christ) where new converts accepted Jesus as the Son of God. And then there's the gospel of the grace of God, which madists believe is a unique revelation given to Paul for the gentiles. This gospel was supposedly revealed to Paul after some of his earlier letters were written, and so letters like 1st Corinthians, most of Romans, and a few others can be chalked off as well.
With this mystery gospel, it's kind of like a winner takes all gospel. There's no repentance necessary, no water baptism, no sin can be committed, no tribulation, and heaven as reward, unlike those who get the second class kingdom gospel. Most madists here feel so free of obligation, they don't even go to church.

Taking this into consideration, when you confidently present your verses to the madsters, they'll simply disregard them if they suppose the verses were not written with them in mind.
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It's a shame you don't know what you're talking about. I feel for ya man.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

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John W., Jesus' words when he walked the earth are for everyone forever. You have to obey his teachings in the gospels before you will get understanding.

See John 14:21.

Jesus' words did not become null and void when he died.

Paul did not preach a different gospel.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
musterion said:
Like I said, you tell me.
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I did. I said there is no inconsistency. You seem to agree with me, but you didn't tell me why. I'd like to hear it.
Stop right there. You are contradicting yourself in the space of one sentence.

John said sins are forgiven IF they're confessed. That's conditional forgiveness. Unforgiven sin = condemnation.
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Depends on what "condemned" means for a believer whether your equation is true.
But what John taught re: conditional forgiveness cannot be true in the same time and place as what Paul said is true re: plenary forgiveness (that ALL sins HAVE been forgiven, Col 2:13).

So you have three choices.

1) John or Paul was wrong and the other was correct -- throwing the whole Bible into doubt.

2) Both John and Paul were wrong -- again throwing the whole Bible into doubt.

3) There's a third option you've not considered, one which allows both of them to be 100% correct.

But you can't say both 1 Jn 1:9 and Col 2:13 are true for you and also say you're not confused, because you are.
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Go ahead. Enlighten me about #3. It's the only one of your options that I consider feasible.
 
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