Must...resist...just...too...easy....
Since I am a Christian (there are Charismatic and Open Theist Reformed Christians apparently...who is a Reformed Open Theist? Some author said there are some), I cannot be possessed, so mystery is wrong.
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Since I am a Christian (there are Charismatic and Open Theist Reformed Christians apparently...who is a Reformed Open Theist? Some author said there are some), I cannot be possessed, so mystery is wrong.
Can you explain this statement to me? Especially the bolded part.
Mystery
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I couldn't agree more!
In our many years of claiming to be followers of Christ, we have not had serious doubts about our faith nor a desire or tendency to renounce it and forsake our first love. He has saved and kept us. Our confidance is in Him, not our own weakness (Jude 24-25).
Others do abandon the faith they once embraced for various reasons. Most believers remain faithful through God's faithfulness. This does not preclude the possibility (Scripture sternly warns about it) of some falling away or apostasizing (some do).
My experience is that if I have come this far, I would have to be a moron for rejecting what I know is true. I have had opportunity to do so, but have not. I see no reason to think that I would do so in the future until I die.
Charles Templeton was a successful evangelist alongside Billy Graham. By the end of his life, he was a functional atheist writing against the faith he once loved and preached. His experience is different than mine and based on years of negative decline that God would have put up road blocks to.
The bottom line is that we are not robots and can receive or reject Truth/God.
Proving I am not possessed since I am a Christian.
Can a Christian be oppressed externally (Paul's thorn, a messenger of Satan)?
I am glad to see you are reaching out for help with nouthetic counselling. I just got my certificate/training from a cereal box. For $100/hour, I will be glad to help you work through your problems.:cloud9:
Let's start with your anger, bitterness, and unforgiveness, rooted in hurt and pride. We will also fit you with a new prescription for different theological glasses. They are not Oakley's, but Rulz, a clearer lens for theological acuity.
Mystery
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You are not a Christian, and you do have a familiar demon spirit.
The demonic spirit you have will not leave unto you are willing to give it up.
Admitting that you are a messenger of Satan is the first step to ridding yourself of your demon. :thumb:
I'm not.
Are you mocking nouthetic counseling?
No, I am making fun of myself (and you), not biblical counselling.
Jesus cast out demons from those who were helpless to help themselves. Maybe you should revisit your charismatic roots so you can help those in bondage and darkness like myself instead of mocking them.
Wait, too late, the Truth set me free in 1978...I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back (picture campfire and marshmallows and long hair/sandals).
I have found streaming radio/internet classical music helpful when dealing with yourself. You may want to try it to calm your nerves so you can deal with me objectively rather than with lunacy.
If I received Jesus according to Jn. 1:12, Rom. 10:9-10, Jn. 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, etc., why do you think a demon entered me, not the Holy Spirit as promised?
Jesus cast out demons from those who were helpless to help themselves. Maybe you should revisit your charismatic roots so you can help those in bondage and darkness like myself instead of mocking them.
Wait, too late, the Truth set me free in 1978...I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back (picture campfire and marshmallows and long hair/sandals).
I have found streaming radio/internet classical music helpful when dealing with yourself. You may want to try it to calm your nerves so you can deal with me objectively rather than with lunacy.
If I received Jesus according to Jn. 1:12, Rom. 10:9-10, Jn. 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, etc., why do you think a demon entered me, not the Holy Spirit as promised?
Because of your bias towards the circumcision epistles, you have clearly missed II Timothy 2:13 which clearly states that if we stop believing, He remains faithful. We are hid in Him, we are His Body, and have His identity, and He will not deny Himself.
On top of that powerful statement, we also learn that the Holy Spirit has sealed us.
No man can break the seal of the Holy Spirit.
2 Tim. 2:12-13
And you conveniently left out v. 12 from the context that shows that His faithfulness does not preclude our becoming godless or faithless. It is not just your uncirc. letters that teach the possibility of apostasy or falling away. It is a Pauline principle also. The security of the believer texts do not negate the warning of apostasy texts. Calvinists do mental gymnastics to try to make them say something they do not to retain their preconceived theology. You simply hyper-dispensationalize them away.
I contrast Old vs New and have a full NT theology, not one based on a specious circ vs uncirc (TM) post-cross gospels theory.
You obviously have no clue what it means to deny Him. No one who has accepted Him can deny Him, ever.
Judas denied Christ and died as an apostate, a son of perdition/hell. Denying Him is the opposite of receiving, loving, knowing, obeying Him.
Your last statement is a big assumption without basis (unless we are robots).
People deny things they once believed as true all of the time. Do you think that no atheist has ever believed in God? Some kids used to believe in Santa and Tooth Fairy, but no longer do so.
Could your idea of the circumcision deny Him? If so, you must qualify your absolute, indefensible statement.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Judas was NEVER in the Body of Christ. You mix dispensations and cause
confusion.
confusion.
Mystery
New member
godless, you are a moron. I have already proved to you that Judas was never a believer by giving you the biblical evidence out of the mouth of Jesus, and you keep lying to everyone anyway.
Here is the proof AGAIN...
"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father." As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were not walking with Him anymore. Jesus said therefore to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. "And we have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God." Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him."
I know that godrulz will not repent of his false teaching, but Jesus clearly said that Judas was never a believer. Jesus knew the heart of Judas when He chose him. He knew that Judas was not a believer and that he would betray Him. Jesus referred to Judas as a "devil" in John 6, long before Jesus was betrayed, and Jesus knew that Judas would betray Him from the beginning.
Are you a Calvinist? Jesus knew Judas was a betrayer from early on. However, he was chosen to be part of Christ's inner circle after praying to the Father. He was called an apostle alongside the others. The Bible is accurate. It did not say he was a false apostle until later. Judas became a betrayer. He was not chosen in that state. He became possessed. He was not always possessed. You are misreading your proof texts. Jesus did not chose a loser. He became one. You hold your view because it fits your preconceived theology. If you trace the chronology and look at every statement about Judas, you will not disagree with me.
Your statements are true at the time they were made. Before Jesus made these statements, other verses show that he was an apostle/disciple/believer. Soon after, his heart changed and Jesus was able to make these statements. Relatively speaking, it was from the beginning of his ministry, but God did not chose him in that state. That would be a lack of wisdom and an error to enumerate him as an apostle wisely chosen by God. Open Theism vs determinism makes sense of this.
Judas was not a Christian in the Body, but God is God, a believer is a believer, man is man, sin is sin, etc. One should not dispensationalize away fundamental principles, STP.
Your statements are true at the time they were made. Before Jesus made these statements, other verses show that he was an apostle/disciple/believer. Soon after, his heart changed and Jesus was able to make these statements. Relatively speaking, it was from the beginning of his ministry, but God did not chose him in that state. That would be a lack of wisdom and an error to enumerate him as an apostle wisely chosen by God. Open Theism vs determinism makes sense of this.
Judas was not a Christian in the Body, but God is God, a believer is a believer, man is man, sin is sin, etc. One should not dispensationalize away fundamental principles, STP.
Jesus did not lie and his statements are true when Judas degenerated into this state. Jesus did not say this about him the day he chose him as an apostle. Your chronology is flawed. Jesus did not lie, but your understanding of his statements is inaccurate. This does not make you a demon possessed liar, just wrong on one point. Will you never learn that omniscience is not a condition of child-like faith and love for Jesus?
yourrulz,
You conveniently state that I conveniently left out the other verses from that passage. I did so on purpose, as those verses have no bearing on our eternal salvation.
Since you haven't spent much time in Paul's letters, I shall examine them for you and give proper and truthful exegesis here.
This verse is relating to our salvation, and corresponds with Galatians 2:20, where Paul clearly states that our old man has died, and it is Christ who lives in us.
Now, moving on to
This means that those who already have Christ living in them, if they suffer for Him during this Christian life, the same will also reign with Him in Heaven (not earth where the 12 original Apostles will reign). Did you read that? Those of us who suffer will also reign with our risen Lord in Heaven! What a blessing!!!
Now, II Timothy 2:12b corresponds directly with 2:12a
This means that if we deny our risen Lord before men on earth (similar to what Peter did), then He will deny us our reign in Heaven. What does this mean? It means that those who deny our risen Lord and do not suffer for Him here, will not reign in Heaven. They will be there, but without reward. Frightful!
Then,
tells us that God will not deny us our salvation, even if we stop believing! What a great God! He will not forsake us!
Also, as stated before, Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30 both guarantee that the Holy Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit of promise, seals us from the point of salvation and forward. That seal will never be broken!
If your good works didn't save you, then what makes you think that your good works can keep you saved???
Mystery
New member
:up:
amosman
New member
Adambassador said:
Do you think there are people that think they have Messiah living in them but don't? Do you think there are people that believe they are saved and because of false teachers are propped up until the day a judgement just to find out otherwise?
If the saints reign with Messiah in heaven who are they reigning over?
If Israel is on earth reigning at the same time as Christians are in heaven reigning where is Messiah? Both places?
What is heaven like? Is it like the new Jerusalem? Who are the 12 original Apostles?
Mystery
New member
Here are the words of Jesus concerning Judas...
"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father." As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were not walking with Him anymore. Jesus said therefore to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. "And we have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God." Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him."
Here is what the demon possessed godrulz says...
More proof, that godrulz calls Jesus a liar.
Jesus knew from the beginning the hearts of those who did not believe, and yet he chose Judas to accomplish God's purpose. God did not make Judas betray Jesus, but He knew his heart, and knew that he would.
gordulz will call Jesus a liar long before he will admit that he is wrong. He has the heart of Satan, and like Judas, godrulz betrays Jesus.
"But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father." As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew, and were not walking with Him anymore. Jesus said therefore to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?" Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. "And we have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God." Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?" Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him."
Here is what the demon possessed godrulz says...
More proof, that godrulz calls Jesus a liar.
Jesus knew from the beginning the hearts of those who did not believe, and yet he chose Judas to accomplish God's purpose. God did not make Judas betray Jesus, but He knew his heart, and knew that he would.
gordulz will call Jesus a liar long before he will admit that he is wrong. He has the heart of Satan, and like Judas, godrulz betrays Jesus.
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