Living 'The Handmaid's Tale' — courtesy of the secular liberal elites of L.A.

[Tambora]

(I've seen all episodes up to this point.)

I haven't watched the last one that has aired yet.
And I'm not sure how many more episodes there will be in this season.

It's pretty depressing for the main character.

There was a couple of times her Commander (the husband of the family) summonsed her to his study, alone.
She was torn and frightened as she knew it was against the rules, but she feared what would happen if she refused.
She goes.
They talk.
He lets her look at and read a magazine (also forbidden - handmaids are not allowed to read or write).
They play scrabble, and he tells her to do her level best and not just let him win.
She is a smart girl and he enjoys being able to swap intellect with her.
They even have a laugh or two.
When she questions him about the forbiddenes of it, he excuses it by saying a happy handmaid is a better handmaid and it will be their secret.

This makes her situation almost bearable, as she starts to think that her Commander is not so cold-blooded, and even starts to think he may have affection toward her.
He reverses a punishment his wife imposed on her that she stay in her room and cannot go outside because she was pissed about something petty.
She starts to think her life might not be so dreary after all.
You kinds let out a little sigh of relief for her.
But it soon becomes apparent that he is just using her for his own amusement (like nothing more than a pet to play fetch with).
And once again she is made to feel like less than nothing.

Every little glimmer of hope that she ever finds is soon squashed.
It like the story of Siyphus that was forced to roll a large rock up to the top of the hill, only to have it roll back down each time just before he reached the top.

 

[Tambora]

Well, given that the book highlights the dangers of religious fundamentalism run amok it'll hopefully stay true to that ethos:

"Atwood has explained that The Handmaid's Tale is a response to those who claim the oppressive, totalitarian, and religious governments that have taken hold in other countries throughout the years "can't happen here"—but in this work, she has tried to show how such a takeover might play out".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale

I haven't read the book.
Never even heard of it before this TV series.
So I went into it blind and am curious to see how it plays out.

It sorta has the feel of 'states rights' to me. As other societies make their own rules for themselves as well.

It's a good show with good character build up.
But man, you ain't gonna watch it and come away with an uplifting spirit.
It's kinda like watching a series about child molestation. You watch it happen and there is nothing you can do about it.
You are left with a sense of hopelessness, which I suppose is the point --- to make you feel as helpless as the character.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I haven't watched the last one that has aired yet.
And I'm not sure how many more episodes there will be in this season.

It's pretty depressing for the main character.

There was a couple of times her Commander (the husband of the family) summonsed her to his study, alone.
She was torn and frightened as she knew it was against the rules, but she feared what would happen if she refused.
She goes.
They talk.
He lets her look at and read a magazine (also forbidden - handmaids are not allowed to read or write).
They play scrabble, and he tells her to do her level best and not just let him win.
She is a smart girl and he enjoys being able to swap intellect with her.
They even have a laugh or two.
When she questions him about the forbiddenes of it, he excuses it by saying a happy handmaid is a better handmaid and it will be their secret.

This makes her situation almost bearable, as she starts to think that her Commander is not so cold-blooded, and even starts to think he may have affection toward her.
He reverses a punishment his wife imposed on her that she stay in her room and cannot go outside because she was pissed about something petty.
She starts to think her life might not be so dreary after all.
You kinds let out a little sigh of relief for her.
But it soon becomes apparent that he is just using her for his own amusement (like nothing more than a pet to play fetch with).
And once again she is made to feel like less than nothing.

Every little glimmer of hope that she ever finds is soon squashed.
It like the story of Siyphus that was forced to roll a large rock up to the top of the hill, only to have it roll back down each time just before he reached the top.

Sounds like it is staying pretty close to the book then. Gonna have to watch this myself.

 

[jeffblue101]

I have been watching the series. Only 5 or 6 episodes so far.

I'm not sure the one that wrote the article in the OP has watched it.

In one of the episodes we learn from a doctor that the handmaids are sent to for their check ups, is that it is the most of the men that are sterile.
But this society does not blame men, only women. So most of the wives that get handmaids are not barren, but it is the husband that is sterile.
And it is revealed that some of the wives have conspired with the doctor (who is not sterile) in secret to "do the deed" with handmaid if after a few months she has not become pregnant by the husband. Especially if the wife gets a handmaid that she likes (in other words, is compliant and obedient and makes no trouble at all.

Some may get the wrong impression from some of the talk about the show.
These handmaids are not sex slaves.
They are only used once a month when they are at their most fertile time.
There is no foreplay, no using the hands to touch one another, etc.

The wife (fully clothed) sits upright on the bed with her legs spread and the handmaid (also fully clothed) lays down beneath her with her head between the wives upper thighs, It is the wife that holds the hands of the handmaid the whole time. This is to symbolize that it is the wive the "child making" is done for.
The husband comes in (also fully clothed).
The husband unzips and lifts the handmaids skirt just enough to "do the deed".
The only skin exposed is the bare minimum to complete the deed.
The handmaid is to look at the ceiling the whole time and not make a move or a sound.
It is all very clinical with no love or desire involved at all.
Other than that time of the month, the husbands have very little dealings with the handmaids at all.

This is done claiming the biblical concept of Rachel giving her husband, Jacob, her handmaid to bear her a child.


But if the handmaid resists in any way and does not fully comply with the rules, she can be punished. Punishment runs anywhere between replacing them with another handmaid or just removing their tongue or an ear or a hand, etc. (None of those things are needed to bear children, so those parts are expendable.)

As a person who has watched a lot of Japanese dystopian animes, I think people are making a big deal out of nothing. It's just another dystopian fiction that bends the laws of science and reason to make a compelling plot.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I haven't read the book.
Never even heard of it before this TV series.
So I went into it blind and am curious to see how it plays out.

It sorta has the feel of 'states rights' to me. As other societies make their own rules for themselves as well.

It's a good show with good character build up.
But man, you ain't gonna watch it and come away with an uplifting spirit.
It's kinda like watching a series about child molestation. You watch it happen and there is nothing you can do about it.
You are left with a sense of hopelessness, which I suppose is the point --- to make you feel as helpless as the character.

Ah, I'm kinda into Dystopian fiction/films/series so I was already aware of it. One of the underlying factors of much of the genre is to make you feel uncomfortable so as to think and question. A totalitarian theocratic state is at the core of this and the inevitable subjugation that would go along with it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

As a person who has watched a lot of Japanese dystopian animes, I think people are making a big deal out of nothing. It's just another dystopian fiction that bends the laws of science and reason to make a compelling plot.

Eh, in that case you've entirely missed the point. I've seen some anime but it's not 1984 and the like quite frankly, certainly not for the most part.

 

[jeffblue101]

Eh, in that case you've entirely missed the point. I've seen some anime but it's not 1984 and the like quite frankly, certainly not for the most part.

what point did I miss? do you honestly believe that half of world's men will be sterile in the near future. like I said it bends the laws of science to create a compelling story.

 

[Arthur Brain]

what point did I miss? do you honestly believe that half of world's men will be sterile in the near future. like I said it bends the laws of science to create a compelling story.

No, just like I don't believe that the world could be ravaged by carnivorous plants or that grass is likely to die out. The point of the story isn't that half of the world's men could go sterile but to show the dangers of how an extremist, fundamentalist, totalitarian state could operate.

 

[Tambora]

Ah, I'm kinda into Dystopian fiction/films/series so I was already aware of it. One of the underlying factors of much of the genre is to make you feel uncomfortable so as to think and question. A totalitarian theocratic state is at the core of this and the inevitable subjugation that would go along with it.

Yeah, it certainly has that overtone.

And yeah, it makes you think.
One thing that goes through ones mind is "Why don't all the oppressed just refuse to comply and say go ahead and kill me if I have to live like this".
Like being overtaxed. If everyone just got fed up and quit paying taxes, what could government do?
Can't arrest everyone -- no taxes collected to pay the prisons and police.
And killing them won't help --- that would definitely result in no taxes being collected because you just killed most of the working class.

It almost boils down to one thing - fear of death or imprisonment makes on complacent and willing to accept their captivity.
Lose that fear and they no longer have a hold on you.

I liked one scene in the show where one of the handmaids was so depressed and downtrodden that she went berserk in the town square. Jumped in a police car and sped around in circles, knowing that she would be gunned down.
But she was smiling and laughing as she sped around, enjoying that moment of freedom before her death.
She had that "Give me liberty or give me death" mentality.
It was one of the few moments in the show that you smiled at.

And if one wants to add another biblical tone to it .....
Fear not those that can kill the body.

 

[rexlunae]

As a person who has watched a lot of Japanese dystopian animes, I think people are making a big deal out of nothing. It's just another dystopian fiction that bends the laws of science and reason to make a compelling plot.

I think it has a particular resonance right now. What's your favorite Japanese dystopia?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yeah, it certainly has that overtone.

And yeah, it makes you think.
One thing that goes through ones mind is "Why don't all the oppressed just refuse to comply and say go ahead and kill me if I have to live like this".
Like being overtaxed. If everyone just got fed up and quit paying taxes, what could government do?
Can't arrest everyone -- no taxes collected to pay the prisons and police.
And killing them won't help --- that would definitely result in no taxes being collected because you just killed most of the working class.

Survival instinct possibly. If you're on the lower end of the scale and have family then you can't afford to risk having no money, and at the lower end of the scale you don't have the power to fight if you're reliant on what little income you have coming in. Just by way of example.

It almost boils down to one thing - fear of death or imprisonment makes on complacent and willing to accept their captivity.
Lose that fear and they no longer have a hold on you.

Well, as above. It's not really that simple. It's all well and good in 'principle' but if your only recourse to have food on the table is to jump through hoops then most people are going to do that, understandably.

I liked one scene in the show where one of the handmaids was so depressed and downtrodden that she went berserk in the town square. Jumped in a police car and sped around in circles, knowing that she would be gunned down.
But she was smiling and laughing as she sped around, enjoying that moment of freedom before her death.
She had that "Give me liberty or give me death" mentality.
It was one of the few moments in the show that you smiled at.

That sounds like a good - if tragic scene.

And if one wants to add another biblical tone to it .....
Fear not those that can kill the body.

But people do, and so would you if you were threatened with sufficient torture of some sort if you're honest. I'll admit it. Furthermore, it's not exactly a 'biblical tone' in this but rather the human distortion of belief akin to extremist fundamentalism.

 

[Tambora]

what point did I miss? do you honestly believe that half of world's men will be sterile in the near future. like I said it bends the laws of science to create a compelling story.

The point is that the men being sterile is a facade and irrelevant.
The whole setup of the society is a facade, where rules are broken by the elite to just to keep the appearance of the facade alive, while DEMANDING that the lower class comply with rules without question or be punished or killed.

In other words, the elite break the law to keep the appearance alive that their law is the best law there is.

Such as the fake appearance that it is the woman's fault if she cannot conceive, even though the truth is that it is the men that are mostly unable.

A WOMAN diplomat from another society comes to this society to discuss a trade for some handmaids because their society has not been able to produce a child in a couple of years, and naturally no society will last long without children to grow up for the next generation.
A nice banquet hall is set up with a big formal feast.
The choicest handmaids are brought in to attend the feast. And by choicest, I mean those that have not been maimed for punishment. If you are without an eye, or a hand, etc,, you are excluded from the banquet because you don;t want the other society to see how they are really treated.
The handmaids that are allowed in the banquet were instructed to be on their best behavior with a very threatening tone.
In other words, act as though everything is just dandy! or else.

So to the other society, it all looks decent, pleasant, fulfilling, and not inhumane at all.
But it's fake, and not the real truth.
It's propaganda to give the appearance of a happy satisfied community.

 

[Tambora]

Survival instinct possibly. If you're on the lower end of the scale and have family then you can't afford to risk having no money, and at the lower end of the scale you don't have the power to fight if you're reliant on what little income you have coming in. Just by way of example.

Ahh, yes.
And the elite know this.
As long as they can instill that fear of repercussion, you can either lay down and take it, or .....

It's the old dilemma of do I give up liberty to live in squalor under the thumb of another, or do I take the risk and revolt for the hope of freedom.

Well, as above. It's not really that simple. It's all well and good in 'principle' but if your only recourse to have food on the table is to jump through hoops then most people are going to do that, understandably.

It is understandable.
But it is still due to fear of the oppressor.

That sounds like a good - if tragic scene.

Yeah, it was good for a moment.
To add to it, all the handmaids that were there and saw it happened ------ you could see the longing in their eyes as they tried to imagine it was them that was driving around free as bird. That made it even more touching.

But people do, and so would you if you were threatened with sufficient torture of some sort if you're honest. I'll admit it. Furthermore, it's not exactly a 'biblical tone' in this but rather the human distortion of belief akin to extremist fundamentalism.

I agree the biblical tone is not the issue in this show, but is only used as a distorted truth to justify what they do.
But i'm not so sure I would not prefer death over being captive to say ... some Islamic pervert.

But that's the thing that everyone starts wondering about when watching this show.
Just how much oppression would YOU accept before you blow and say enough is enough and refuse to take it anymore.

 

[Tambora]

AB, I get the impression that each society is trying to convince the other societies that their ways are better, perhaps in the hope that the other society will adopt the same laws and perhaps eventually be united into the same society -- two states untie as one.
I got that impression when the banquet, showing off the handmaids to the guest diplomats from the other society, was going on.
It appeared as if the diplomats came to see if their handmaid system was a viable beneficial working system to use.

Since you read the book, does that sound close to being right?
Do any of the societies end up joining another, which would then make them a more powerful society (numbers wise)?

 

[Tambora]

See what you started, Climate Sanity!
:sibbie:


With all the metaphorical themes in this show, this conversation could go on forever!

But that's what I like about this show.
You really can't pinpoint it to any particular nation today.
You can spot similarities to just about all nations, and yet differences to all.
So you can't really say this show is about America or China or any other, although you can spot some similarities to most of them.
And you can't really say this show is about any particular religion, or even race, as the elite consists of both white and non-white families. And I haven't noticed a single church in the show as of yet (at least none I remember).

The main theme seems to be class status - hierarchy.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Ahh, yes.
And the elite know this.
As long as they can instill that fear of repercussion, you can either lay down and take it, or .....

It's the old dilemma of do I give up liberty to live in squalor under the thumb of another, or do I take the risk and revolt for the hope of freedom.

Well there's the rub. What 'liberty' do you have to begin with if the alternative is squalor and poverty? Many people on the lower end of the 'scale' are just managing to make ends meet as it is.

It is understandable.
But it is still due to fear of the oppressor.

Sure. You get threatened with no food or recourse to basic needs for survival then you're oppressed and the rest follows.

Yeah, it was good for a moment.
To add to it, all the handmaids that were there and saw it happened ------ you could see the longing in their eyes as they tried to imagine it was them that was driving around free as bird. That made it even more touching.

Have you seen the film "I Daniel Blake"? I thoroughly recommend it. It shows what it's often like for people on benefits in the UK. One particular scene is where a young woman is in a food bank and is that hungry she opens a tin of beans in the place after sacrificing her own hunger for the needs of her family and the main character who helps her after dealing with asinine bureaucracy.

I agree the biblical tone is not the issue in this show, but is only used as a distorted truth to justify what they do.
But i'm not so sure I would not prefer death over being captive to say ... some Islamic pervert.

A 'distorted truth'? Isn't that an oxymoron? The premise of the story is to show just how damaging such extremism aka unfettered fundamentalism actually amounts to and its potential for such horror. Nick M thinks that beatings are acceptable for folk like me who don't 'believe properly'. Do you go along with that?

But that's the thing that everyone starts wondering about when watching this show.
Just how much oppression would YOU accept before you blow and say enough is enough and refuse to take it anymore.

If you have the chance to and without the gung ho attributes. Otherwise, I sincerely doubt the victims of Auschwitz had much choice in the matter.

 

[Arthur Brain]

AB, I get the impression that each society is trying to convince the other societies that their ways are better, perhaps in the hope that the other society will adopt the same laws and perhaps eventually be united into the same society -- two states untie as one.
I got that impression when the banquet, showing off the handmaids to the guest diplomats from the other society, was going on.
It appeared as if the diplomats came to see if their handmaid system was a viable beneficial working system to use.

Since you read the book, does that sound close to being right?
Do any of the societies end up joining another, which would then make them a more powerful society (numbers wise)?

There's ambiguity so you'll just have to keep on watching...

 

[kmoney]

I have been watching that series.
Very disturbing to watch at times.

I haven't read the book or seen the show but what I've heard doesn't make me want to watch. It sounds very disturbing. :noid:


I have heard comments comparing the administration to this but it is mostly about Trump being removed from office and Pence stepping in since he seems more likely to institute religious rules. I don't find those comparisons very productive or concerns very rational. Although in many cases it may be intentionally hyperbolic.

 

[Tambora]

I haven't read the book or seen the show but what I've heard doesn't make me want to watch. It sounds very disturbing. :noid:

It's a good show.
But yeah, it'a about as fun to watch as Shindler's List, which was also a good show.

In fact, let's just take Shindler's List for a moment.
Imagine that Hitler and the holocaust never happened, but someone wrote it as a fictional 'what if' scenario and you go to see the movie made.
How would you critique that movie?
Would you feel it plausible that something like that could actually happen, and happen in as short of time as it actually did?
Of course the scenes of the treatment of the captives would be disturbing to watch, no doubt.
But zoom out to wider lens and critique the society that lived under those rules - the German citizens, many of which probably knew it was wrong but were afraid for their lives to complain or make an attempt to oppose it. And then zoom out even further to the rest of the world around them and if you think it would have been best for them oppose it or just stand down due to fear of risking starting a war over it.

I have heard comments comparing the administration to this but it is mostly about Trump being removed from office and Pence stepping in since he seems more likely to institute religious rules. I don't find those comparisons very productive or concerns very rational. Although in many cases it may be intentionally hyperbolic.

Trump???
I think anyone that is pegging Trump into this show has not watched the show.
I haven't seen a single character in the show that even comes close to the ideology of Trump.

 

[rexlunae]

In fact, let's just take Shindler's List for a moment.
Imagine that Hitler and the holocaust never happened, but someone wrote it as a fictional 'what if' scenario and you go to see the movie made.
How would you critique that movie?
Would you feel it plausible that something like that could actually happen, and happen in as short of time as it actually did?
Of course the scenes of the treatment of the captives would be disturbing to watch, no doubt.
But zoom out to wider lens and critique the society that lived under those rules - the German citizens, many of which probably knew it was wrong but were afraid for their lives to complain or make an attempt to oppose it. And then zoom out even further to the rest of the world around them and if you think it would have been best for them oppose it or just stand down due to fear of risking starting a war over it.

I think that what it suggests is that the line between tyranny and liberty is razor thin, and an energized and empowered group could still turn over the whole table.

Trump???
I think anyone that is pegging Trump into this show has not watched the show.
I haven't seen a single character in the show that even comes close to the ideology of Trump.

It's kinda like Trumpism without the Trump... which is a little strange. But the religious zeal of many of Trump's followers is not unlike that of the antagonists, and the strong father morality is a somewhat exaggerated version of hyperreligious thinking.