Just for once in your pitiful existance look beyond second cause to the First Cause.
Little Baby Charlie
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
Just for once in your pitiful existance look beyond second cause to the First Cause.
My celebration is according to scripture and is in my Saviour my King and His Rest.
Yet you doubt everyone else's salvation. Stay on thread topic
You changed the topic and I answered, but you knew I would, when you exercised your usual deceit.
Just for once in your pitiful existence look beyond your self-righteousness and piousness and have some compassion for a child who is about to be murdered because his only crime is that he's terminally ill.
I have compassion, but I have no need to shout it from the roof tops. Every second 1.8 people leave time and enter eternity. This is justice and judgement at work.
You think what is happening is just? What is little innocent Charlie being judged for? Living? Being terminally ill? What?
Your sense of right and wrong are skewed to the extreme if that's what you think.
And will you profane Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, killing people who should not die, and keeping people alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies?” - Ezekiel 13:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel13:19&version=NKJV
Eagles Wings
New member
We've discussed this in our home and the consensus is that we don't have all the information needed to make a judgment.
End of life issues in cases like this are complex.
We ultimately have faith in our God, that He knows this family and His will be done.
End of life issues in cases like this are complex.
We ultimately have faith in our God, that He knows this family and His will be done.
Ask Mr. Religion
☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) 	
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
End of Life Considerations
End of Life Considerations
Some considerations...
Which is more important: The sanctity of life or the quality of life?
A. God is sovereign over human life, which is sacred because we are created in His image.
Ps. 8:4-5 Gen. 1:27 2:7
1. Suffering and death are the result of the Fall. Romans 5:12; I Cor. 15:26
2. God alone has the right to give and take life. Deut. 32:39; Ps. 31:15; Heb. 9:27
3. God places special protection over human life. Gen. 9:5-6; Ezek. 22:1; Hab. 1
4. God especially cares for those who are weak and helpless. Ps. 72:12-14; 146:9; 139:13-16; Pr. 31:8-9 ;Js. 1:27; Dt. 14:29; Is. 1:17; Lev. 19:14
5. We have a right to take our own lives, even to avoid suffering. Mt. 27:5; Jud. 9:54-57; I Sa. 31:3-6; II Sa. 1:9-17; 17:23; I Ki. 16:15-19; Acts 1:18; I Co. 6:19-20
7. God sometimes allows suffering for His good purpose. Rom. 8:18; II Cor. 4:16-18
B. People in our day are playing God and killing those who, in their view, don’t have sufficient quality of life. Judges 21:25 Col. 2:8
1. Rather than valuing all human life, the secular elite have redefined the issue as quality of life, claiming some life is not worth living.
2. Some demand the right to choose to die.
3. Many seek the right to make life and death decisions for others.
4. There are “choices” and “rights” which belong to God alone.
C. There are also many practical problems with giving people the right to die.
1. Those who, when healthy, say, I wouldn’t want to live like that", may change their minds when faced with the choice between a hard life or no life at all.
2. Those who are depressed may make rash, unwise decisions. Prov. 29:20
3. Those who say they would rather die than to continue living in a state of pain or disability may have no idea of what their state will be after death. Ecclesiastes 5:2
4. Doctors are sometimes wrong. “Hopeless” cases sometimes experience recovery.
D. The rejection of the sanctity of human life puts us all at risk.
1. A time may come when you won’t be allowed to choose to receive certain care.
2. The helpless among us are in grave danger when we use quality of life as the criteria for which people we will value and protect: elderly, disabled, unwanted.
We must stand up for the sanctity of human life
A. You may have to make some tough healthcare decisions for yourself and others.
1. Base your decisions upon the Word of God. Pr. 3:5-6; II Co. 12:7; Mt. 7:12
2. Differentiate between medical (scientific) issues and ethical (spiritual) issues.
3. When is someone dead? Gen. 6:17; 25:8,17; 35:29; 49:33; Mk. 15:17
4. What is the difference between sustaining life and prolonging death? Isa. 32:6
5. Must all possible care be given under every circumstance? That depends. For example, should a man who is responsible for a family bankrupt the family seeking all possible treatment options for a dire illness that inevitably ends in death?
6. Those who are dying should be kept as comfortable as possible. Prov. 31:6-7
7. Seek godly counsel when facing difficult decisions. Pr. 15:22
8. We will have to make difficult decisions based upon incomplete information. Only God is all knowing. He will help you. I Cor. 10:13
9. If you are unsure, err on the side of life. Prov. 31:8-9
10. Carefully evaluate any advice you may receive from the medical profession. Despite what a medical professional will claim, not all situations warrant extraordinary medical intervention. The term “ordinary means” refers to the course of treatment for a disease that offers a reasonable hope of benefit to the patient without being excessively burdensome. Antibiotics to cure an infection are an example of this type of treatment. “Extraordinary means” are those that do not offer such hope and place undue burdens on the patient. For example, placing a patient on a respirator could be considered extraordinary means. Ordinary means are considered morally obligatory, and extraordinary means are morally optional.
B. Are you prepared to face the inescapable realities of dying and death? Rom. 5:12; Heb. 9:27; Ecc. 3:1-2
1. Are you prepared to face the dying and death of those whom you love?
2. Have you prepared those you will leave behind for your dying and death? Mt. 7:12; Pr. 21:5
3. Are you prepared to die?
a. Your last breath in this world is not the end of your existence. After death comes judgment. Heb. 9:27; Ps. 90:12; Rom. 5:12; 3:23; 6:23
b. Jesus takes away the sting of death for all who believe in Him. I Co. 15:22,55
The Bible also affirms that death is a normal and natural part of a person’s life “under the sun,” or on this side of eternity (Eccl. 2:14–16; 3:19–21; 5:15–16; 9:1–6). Death is seen as both an enemy and a normal part of life, due to the pervasiveness of sin in the world. But from the perspective of the cross and resurrection of Jesus, for the Christian, death is also a conquered enemy, having been vanquished by the death and resurrection of Christ. Thus, since death for the Christian is a conquered enemy, it need not always be resisted. Physicians need not always “do everything” to stave off death, especially when it involves no more than simply delaying an inevitable death. In general, when the dying person’s prognosis is very poor and further treatment is futile or more burdensome than beneficial, death can be welcomed as the “doorstep to eternity.”
Though it is clear that life is sacred, it does not follow that medicine is obligated to keep everyone alive at all times and at all costs. If it is true that death is a conquered enemy, then it need not be resisted at all times. It then is acceptable, in humility, to recognize that death is the doorstep to eternity and not employ life support simply to delay someone’s inevitable death and, in doing so, delay his or her homecoming to eternity.
There are no easy answers. Each of us must decide according to our own situation and the present state of our walk of faith. Have we run the good race? Have we fought the good fight and are ready to meet our Lord and be told, "Well done, my good and faithful servant" ?
AMR
End of Life Considerations
Some considerations...
Which is more important: The sanctity of life or the quality of life?
A. God is sovereign over human life, which is sacred because we are created in His image.
Ps. 8:4-5 Gen. 1:27 2:7
1. Suffering and death are the result of the Fall. Romans 5:12; I Cor. 15:26
2. God alone has the right to give and take life. Deut. 32:39; Ps. 31:15; Heb. 9:27
3. God places special protection over human life. Gen. 9:5-6; Ezek. 22:1; Hab. 1
4. God especially cares for those who are weak and helpless. Ps. 72:12-14; 146:9; 139:13-16; Pr. 31:8-9 ;Js. 1:27; Dt. 14:29; Is. 1:17; Lev. 19:14
5. We have a right to take our own lives, even to avoid suffering. Mt. 27:5; Jud. 9:54-57; I Sa. 31:3-6; II Sa. 1:9-17; 17:23; I Ki. 16:15-19; Acts 1:18; I Co. 6:19-20
7. God sometimes allows suffering for His good purpose. Rom. 8:18; II Cor. 4:16-18
B. People in our day are playing God and killing those who, in their view, don’t have sufficient quality of life. Judges 21:25 Col. 2:8
1. Rather than valuing all human life, the secular elite have redefined the issue as quality of life, claiming some life is not worth living.
2. Some demand the right to choose to die.
3. Many seek the right to make life and death decisions for others.
4. There are “choices” and “rights” which belong to God alone.
C. There are also many practical problems with giving people the right to die.
1. Those who, when healthy, say, I wouldn’t want to live like that", may change their minds when faced with the choice between a hard life or no life at all.
2. Those who are depressed may make rash, unwise decisions. Prov. 29:20
3. Those who say they would rather die than to continue living in a state of pain or disability may have no idea of what their state will be after death. Ecclesiastes 5:2
4. Doctors are sometimes wrong. “Hopeless” cases sometimes experience recovery.
D. The rejection of the sanctity of human life puts us all at risk.
1. A time may come when you won’t be allowed to choose to receive certain care.
2. The helpless among us are in grave danger when we use quality of life as the criteria for which people we will value and protect: elderly, disabled, unwanted.
We must stand up for the sanctity of human life
A. You may have to make some tough healthcare decisions for yourself and others.
1. Base your decisions upon the Word of God. Pr. 3:5-6; II Co. 12:7; Mt. 7:12
2. Differentiate between medical (scientific) issues and ethical (spiritual) issues.
3. When is someone dead? Gen. 6:17; 25:8,17; 35:29; 49:33; Mk. 15:17
4. What is the difference between sustaining life and prolonging death? Isa. 32:6
5. Must all possible care be given under every circumstance? That depends. For example, should a man who is responsible for a family bankrupt the family seeking all possible treatment options for a dire illness that inevitably ends in death?
6. Those who are dying should be kept as comfortable as possible. Prov. 31:6-7
7. Seek godly counsel when facing difficult decisions. Pr. 15:22
8. We will have to make difficult decisions based upon incomplete information. Only God is all knowing. He will help you. I Cor. 10:13
9. If you are unsure, err on the side of life. Prov. 31:8-9
10. Carefully evaluate any advice you may receive from the medical profession. Despite what a medical professional will claim, not all situations warrant extraordinary medical intervention. The term “ordinary means” refers to the course of treatment for a disease that offers a reasonable hope of benefit to the patient without being excessively burdensome. Antibiotics to cure an infection are an example of this type of treatment. “Extraordinary means” are those that do not offer such hope and place undue burdens on the patient. For example, placing a patient on a respirator could be considered extraordinary means. Ordinary means are considered morally obligatory, and extraordinary means are morally optional.
B. Are you prepared to face the inescapable realities of dying and death? Rom. 5:12; Heb. 9:27; Ecc. 3:1-2
1. Are you prepared to face the dying and death of those whom you love?
2. Have you prepared those you will leave behind for your dying and death? Mt. 7:12; Pr. 21:5
3. Are you prepared to die?
a. Your last breath in this world is not the end of your existence. After death comes judgment. Heb. 9:27; Ps. 90:12; Rom. 5:12; 3:23; 6:23
b. Jesus takes away the sting of death for all who believe in Him. I Co. 15:22,55
The Bible also affirms that death is a normal and natural part of a person’s life “under the sun,” or on this side of eternity (Eccl. 2:14–16; 3:19–21; 5:15–16; 9:1–6). Death is seen as both an enemy and a normal part of life, due to the pervasiveness of sin in the world. But from the perspective of the cross and resurrection of Jesus, for the Christian, death is also a conquered enemy, having been vanquished by the death and resurrection of Christ. Thus, since death for the Christian is a conquered enemy, it need not always be resisted. Physicians need not always “do everything” to stave off death, especially when it involves no more than simply delaying an inevitable death. In general, when the dying person’s prognosis is very poor and further treatment is futile or more burdensome than beneficial, death can be welcomed as the “doorstep to eternity.”
Though it is clear that life is sacred, it does not follow that medicine is obligated to keep everyone alive at all times and at all costs. If it is true that death is a conquered enemy, then it need not be resisted at all times. It then is acceptable, in humility, to recognize that death is the doorstep to eternity and not employ life support simply to delay someone’s inevitable death and, in doing so, delay his or her homecoming to eternity.
There are no easy answers. Each of us must decide according to our own situation and the present state of our walk of faith. Have we run the good race? Have we fought the good fight and are ready to meet our Lord and be told, "Well done, my good and faithful servant" ?
AMR
The UK hospital where Charlie is has announced that they have received new evidence of treatments from Rome and the US. They want another hearing
Forget the hearing, send in the SEAL Team.
Interestingly, the parents are not married. They obviously think that sin goes unpunished.
Nathan answered, “Yah Veh has taken away your sin. You will not die. But what you did caused Yah Veh’s enemies to lose all respect for him. For this reason the son who was born to you will die.”
Then Nathan went home. And the Lord caused the son of David and Bathsheba, Uriah’s widow, to be very sick
Then Nathan went home. And the Lord caused the son of David and Bathsheba, Uriah’s widow, to be very sick
Charlie may get to come to the USA
glassjester
Well-known member
Any reports on what the new evidence is?
This is the problem with socialized medicine folks, when the government is allowed to make medical decisions for you or your family, and you are powerless to stop it, you have lost your freedom. Yes, freedom...the tenet which this country was founded upon, and people are so willing to give it to the state for a sense of comfort but, losing your liberty comes with a cost which we are seeing take place with this child, and a government which feels has the right to make personal medical decisions for. Socialized medicine is not a good thing for the citizen at all. :down:
I haven't heard, but the parents were given 48 hours to produce evidence that experimental treatment would benefit.
It is irrelevant, what is relevant is that a government feels so inclined to interfere with the wishes of the parents & the life of a child. If the child dies after all experimental treatments which are being offered fails than so be it but, for a government to lord over the decision for this child to receive the treatment is criminal. This is what government run healthcare looks like, and that is why I reject it in total. :down:
:thumb:
We can't expect the unregenerate to humble themselves, but those that profess to be regenerate certainly should.
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of Elohim: the powers that be are ordained of Elohim.
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the sake of Adonay: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the sake of Adonay: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
That is the real issue. The government claiming it has a right in you and your family.