Literal Israel overturns Spiritual Israel Doctrine (Callout of @Rondonmonson)

Tambora

Tambora

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Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
Spiritual Israel is a full blown DOCTRINE OF DEMONS!
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I agree and I can see folks that believe it's a true doctrine have messed up grace and election beyond recognition.

Jacob/Israel (the nation in Rebekah's womb) is GOD's elect.
It was unmerited election, because Jacob/Israel was elected of GOD before he did anything.
His election was not based on anything Jacob ever did, but purely by GOD's say so.
That nation was physical and earthy.

Grace - unmerited favor (ie. not earned).

Most that deny that the BOC is a separate entity form GOD's elect Israel are the ones that cannot seem to fathom that GOD, who saves the BOC with grace, but for some reason don't believe GOD will do the same with His elect Israel and that they have to earn it.

Not to mention that is is specifically said that grace came to Gentiles through Israel's temporary fall.
The BOC was never in a fallen state and never will be.
It also says Israel will be restored.
The BOC is not ever restored, again because it was never fallen that it needed a restoration.

The BOC is a new creation, and has nothing to do with GOD's election of the nation of Israel nor it's future restoration.
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Tambora said:
I agree and I can see folks that believe it's a true doctrine have messed up grace and election beyond recognition.

Jacob/Israel (the nation in Rebekah's womb) is GOD's elect.
It was unmerited election, because Jacob/Israel was elected of GOD before he did anything.
His election was not based on anything Jacob ever did, but purely by GOD's say so.
That nation was physical and earthy.

Grace - unmerited favor (ie. not earned).

Most that deny that the BOC is a separate entity form GOD's elect Israel are the ones that cannot seem to fathom that GOD, who saves the BOC with grace, but for some reason don't believe GOD will do the same with His elect Israel and that they have to earn it.

Not to mention that is is specifically said that grace came to Gentiles through Israel's temporary fall.
The BOC was never in a fallen state and never will be.
It also says Israel will be restored.
The BOC is not ever restored, again because it was never fallen that it needed a restoration.

The BOC is a new creation, and has nothing to do with GOD's election of the nation of Israel nor it's future restoration.
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Sister!!! Boom!!! You nailed it.

It literally attacks the Spirit of Christ's grace. I used to try to get along with everyone and proclaim grace to the raggedy edges of impossibility and beyond, but all those that twist the Gospel seem to have this theological badge superglued and sewn to their scouts uniform!

It hit me... it's not just Calvinists or Jehovas Witness's...

It brings people out of the wood work! It's almost scary!

#Hence... Que "No more Mr. Nice Guy" : )
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Tambora said:
Yep. What was water became wine.

Nope. No protestant ever turned what was wine into grape juice.
Their juice started out as grape juice and remained grape juice.
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In reference to Israel and old wine... It's been fermenting an awful long time too! When it's time for the Elect "Old Guard" to raise sword with Messiah... oh man!

It's going to be like 1,000,000 hungry lions dressed in battle armor!

: )
 
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jamie

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Tambora said:
Yep. What was water became wine.

Nope. No protestant ever turned what was wine into grape juice.
Their juice started out as grape juice and remained grape juice.
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Is that what Jesus drank at Passover? Grape juice?
 
Tambora

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Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
#Hence... Que "No more Mr. Nice Guy" : )
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You could be like Elisha.
He was one tough dude. He didn't take no lip from nobody!

2 Kings 2:23-24 KJV
(23) And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
(24) And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.​



That'll teach them little brats.
 
Tambora

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jamie said:
Is that what Jesus drank at Passover? Grape juice?
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Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't say "wine" but says it was "fruit of the vine".


Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mar_14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luk_22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.​


For some reason,the Holy Spirit chose not use the term "wine".

Why?

Not sure, but I have my suspicions.
The word "wine" can be used for fresh juice or fermented juice.
So why not use the word "wine" for the last supper?
I could suggest that it has something to do with no leaven/yeast being allowed anywhere in the house for the Passover meal.
Fermented wine would have leaven/yeast, and that would be a no-no.
And the word "wine" could denote either, so to avoid the confusion of it possibly having any leaven/yeast in it at all, a different term was used.
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Tambora said:
You could be like Elisha.
He was one tough dude. He didn't take no lip from nobody!

2 Kings 2:23-24 KJV
(23) And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
(24) And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.​



That'll teach them little brats.
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Amen to that!

57f23fd81b00007f08ef3fad.jpeg


If the scripture don't get em, the sarcasm will. : )
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Tambora said:
Matthew, Mark, and Luke don't say "wine" but says it was "fruit of the vine".


Mat_26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mar_14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

Luk_22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.​


For some reason,the Holy Spirit chose not use the term "wine".

Why?

Not sure, but I have my suspicions.
The word "wine" can be used for fresh juice or fermented juice.
So why not use the word "wine" for the last supper?
I could suggest that it has something to do with no leaven/yeast being allowed anywhere in the house for the Passover meal.
Fermented wine would have leaven/yeast, and that would be a no-no.
And the word "wine" could denote either, so to avoid the confusion of it possibly having any leaven/yeast in it at all, a different term was used.
Click to expand...

This is a very awesome point!!! I never gleaned this!!! I'm putting this with the rest of my pearls.

:cheers:
 
jamie

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Tambora said:
For some reason,the Holy Spirit chose not use the term "wine".
Click to expand...

And no one puts new wine into old wineskins or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins and both are preserved.*And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new for he says, ‘The old is better.’ (Luke 5:37-39)​

I suppose new grape juice wouldn't affect the wineskins. Just throw the wineskins into the refrigerator and the juice should keep just fine, right?
 
Tambora

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jamie said:
And no one puts new wine into old wineskins or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins and both are preserved.*And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new for he says, ‘The old is better.’ (Luke 5:37-39)​

I suppose new grape juice wouldn't affect the wineskins. Just throw the wineskins into the refrigerator and the juice should keep just fine, right?
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Care to show us what sort of container the fruit of the vine at the last supper was brought in?
 
R

Rondonmonson

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Tambora said:
You got that backwards.
The elder was Esau (a Gentile nation) and the younger was Jacob (nation of Israel).

The elder will serve the younger.
Gentiles serve Israel.


Genesis 25:23-25 KJV
(23) And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
(24) And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, there were twins in her womb.
(25) And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
(26) And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
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No, I was saying the Elder was serving the Younger. I did say Paul was speaking of Jacob, but I just assumed everyone knew he was the YOUNGER. Thus in God's purview Esau is not all of the Gentiles, they are many of course. So they Younger (Gentile Church) is serving the Elder (Gods First Bride). Remember, Jacob has had two Brides. Leah and Rebecca. God also has two Brides. Israel was His first Bride. And the Church is the bride of Christ and that Marriage will be consummated in Heaven.
 
Crucible

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Call-out threads are against the rules.

and
Your obsession with physical Israel is a mental illness as far as I'm concerned- The Spirit manifests among Christians, not Christ-hating Jews or a plot of land which have for the past 2000 years been anti-Christ.
Whatever influence driving yall is unnatural and unhealthy, get over it- The scriptures are not with you on any of it, it's all in your imagination :wave2:
 
Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Crucible said:
Call-out threads are against the rules.

and
Your obsession with physical Israel is a mental illness as far as I'm concerned- The Spirit manifests among Christians, not Christ-hating Jews or a plot of land which have for the past 2000 years been anti-Christ.
Whatever influence driving yall is unnatural and unhealthy, get over it- The scriptures are not with you on any of it, it's all in your imagination :wave2:
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Now you finally understand how we feel about that wilted TULIP.

And quit crying foul... The anti-semitism that's rooted in your false doctrine of SI is a stain that blasphemes God's promises...

Suck it up buttercup, lift that chin and knuckle up.

#And... I called out [MENTION=18550]Rondonmonson[/MENTION] because I turned their post into an OP... because I liked it so much!
#Deal with it
 
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