Lifting & Fasting

[Idolater]

Pertinent threads:

Lifting thread

A user suggested 'tongue-in-cheek' that we should start a 'smoking lounge' thread because me and some former smokers started talking about our tobacco habits, mucking up a thread (not on purpose, and no disrespect intended to @Right Divider :e4e: ). I thought better of it. I thought why not...

theologyonline.com

Fasting thread

This came out of the Lifting thread, @Jefferson mentioned he fasts weekly and he got me intrigued about it. I personally tie it together with lifting weights and fitness but plenty of people don't, many people fast for religious and spiritual reasons as well, so I thought I'd make a new thread...

theologyonline.com

Purpose here is to discuss lifting weights and fasting in one thread.
Reason being the other threads really focus on one or the other and not both, and we're getting into overlapping discussions, so, here we are.

... I learned I should be doing around 20 reps for someone my age. I still need to learn how many sets and how many days per week for someone my age but this is progress.

I am beginning a new cut today. I'm calling it a cutting fast, or a fasting cut, either one, and it's unorthodox. I haven't seen any of the health and fitness public intellectuals like Dr. Berg or Israetel or Huberman or Attia recommend or suggest this method. It's probably for good reason too, but nonetheless, I'm going to keep trying it out, because I like the results so far.

Good news here is that I'm experiencing all the same "symptoms" if you want to call them that, with my fast so far. I stopped eating last night supper, so I'm in my second 12-hour block rn. Something I'm doing differently this time around is I am lifting.

Israetel has a recommendation for what he calls "de-loading," where you basically, for strength trainers (me), you reduce the weight to c. 90% what you were doing leading up to the de-load, and cut the sets in half. I figure this makes sense to try on a fast, so I started this morning with de-loaded squats and overhead press.

Coming into today the last thing I did for lifting (yesterday) was deadlifts, and I introduced myself to two-rep sets (which Israetel calls "doubles"), followed by a fifth set of c. AMRAP (As Many Reps As Possible). I was working with 365 LBS.

So the next time I deadlift, which will be on Thursday I think, I'll reduce down to c. 330 LBS, and do two sets of doubles followed by a third set of c. AMRAP. Israetel's idea with de-loading is to reduce the weight and the sets, to give everything a break, but to still stimulate muscles to grow, to actively prevent muscle loss.

Now this is where the unorthodox nature of the cutting fast comes in, because even though I'm still stimulating muscle growth, I'm not feeding myself any protein or any food at all, so my muscles aren't going to be able to really do much growing, but whatever they can do, will be done. It's an experiment in progress.

 

[Idolater]

Word of caution, word of warning, beware, be wary:

"Israetel" is a guy, his name is Michael Israetel PhD and he's got a potty mouth, a sailor's mouth. He is vulgar, very much so at times. So I'll not be posting any links to his content, unless it's the very rare one where he doesn't use any slurs or profanities. There's profanity warnings, and then there's just ---- I can't responsibly link to any of his content basically; but he does know a lot about weightlifting, including about steroids.

I mention him when I learned something from him, but again, I'm not going to provide any links (unless it's a rare video where he doesn't swear). This is a word of warning, and an explanation of what it means when I say "Israetel" says this or that. If you do search for his content, you do so at your own risk.

 

[Jefferson]

I just subscribed to Attia and Israetel. Thanks for letting me know about them. I was previously subscribed to Huberman and Berg.

 

[Jefferson]

I haven't seen any of the health and fitness public intellectuals like Dr. Berg...

Speaking of Berg, did you ever see THIS?

 

[Idolater]

I just subscribed to Attia and Israetel.

OK. Some descriptions I forget to include of Israetel are "obscene" and "crass." He's all those things. I know you know what you're getting into, I just want to make sure anybody else does too.

Thanks for letting me know about them. I was previously subscribed to Huberman and Berg.

I like Berg and Israetel because their content is short and sweet. Like a 20-30 minute television program, instead of the very long productions of Huberman and Attia. Plus, re this thread, when Huberman and Attia talk about lifting it's one thing, but Israetel obviously knows lifting ---- the guy's a house. He used to power lift (strength focus) and he transitioned to bodybuilding (muscle building and hypertrophy focus) so he runs the gamut. The guy doesn't just know how to lift ---- he lifts.

Attia by contrast says he lifts, and I'm sure he does, but he doesn't look like he lifts. You know what I'm saying.

 

[Idolater]

Ancient people engaged in daily manual labor, unlike our sedentary, television-watching, couch-potato sloths. So it's likely the muscles of ancient peoples would not waste away from eating only one meal per day. Maybe mine wouldn't either since I exercise 7 days a week. As I mentioned to Idolater, I'd like to see a study on that.

(I pulled this post over from the exclusive fasting thread.)

I've just completed the hardest 156-hour c. water fast, and it was a fast I lifted weights during. Yesterday was the hardest day of any fast I've ever had, and even after a decent night's sleep last night, I still feel relatively terrible this morning.

So that experiment's over! I'm not going to try to lift weights during c. water fasts anymore, not because it doesn't preserve muscle mass better, but because fasting is more difficult. Fasting is difficult enough as it is without adding more difficulty to it.

The whole idea here with the cutting fast, or fasting cut, is to remove fat tissue mass I added while eating at a caloric surplus, while lifting weights, when I was also adding muscle at the same time. So I want to lose the fat, but keep the muscle. Lifting during the fast was to help preserve the muscle better, but even before knowing the answer to that question, I already know the answer to how it affects the fast itself: it makes it harder.

I don't need the fast /cut to be harder, I just need to get through it.

When I don't lift weights (the other two 156-hour fasts I did I didn't bother lifting weights) these fasts aren't very difficult, but this one was, and dollars to donuts it's because of the weight lifting during it.

 

[Jefferson]

(I pulled this post over from the exclusive fasting thread.)

I've just completed the hardest 156-hour c. water fast, and it was a fast I lifted weights during. Yesterday was the hardest day of any fast I've ever had, and even after a decent night's sleep last night, I still feel relatively terrible this morning.

So that experiment's over! I'm not going to try to lift weights during c. water fasts anymore, not because it doesn't preserve muscle mass better, but because fasting is more difficult. Fasting is difficult enough as it is without adding more difficulty to it.

The whole idea here with the cutting fast, or fasting cut, is to remove fat tissue mass I added while eating at a caloric surplus, while lifting weights, when I was also adding muscle at the same time. So I want to lose the fat, but keep the muscle. Lifting during the fast was to help preserve the muscle better, but even before knowing the answer to that question, I already know the answer to how it affects the fast itself: it makes it harder.

I don't need the fast /cut to be harder, I just need to get through it.

When I don't lift weights (the other two 156-hour fasts I did I didn't bother lifting weights) these fasts aren't very difficult, but this one was, and dollars to donuts it's because of the weight lifting during it.

How much weight did you lose during that 6 1/2 days?

 

[Idolater]

How much weight did you lose during that 6 1/2 days?

Over eight percent. But remember a ton of water comes off at the start and then the weight loss calms down in the middle of the week. That water is easy to gain back as it is easy to lose. I did consume creatine each day to minimize the weight loss due to water.

 

[Idolater]

Speaking of Berg, did you ever see THIS?

One of the guys Attia talks to sometimes, once accused Berg of being a doctor of chiropractic? I thought he was a medical doctor, but I guess I just assumed he was an MD.

... It's an experiment in progress.

It's like four weeks in now, and I'm eating today and this will be the seventh day of eating in those four weeks, so that's an average of less than two days of eating per week. My body mass is down about 10%

" ... probably the most simple strength training program ever conceived."

Whereas Israetel is Rated-R (he's raunchy) this guy is Rated-PG (the kind of cursing you'd see in PG movies (e.g. I haven't heard him use the '-ubar' word, "whiskey tango foxtrot," if you know what I mean ---- I haven't heard this guy use that word), I'll link to Rated-PG content but I'm uncomfortable linking to Rated-R content and especially raunch, is just inappropriate on a Christian anonymous internet discussion board.

Mr. Bromley isn't a sycophant of Israetel's, but he frequently refers to Israetel and to his vocabulary and concepts (e.g. "meso-cycle"), and he also promotes Israetel's brand and mobile app, so there is some synergy between this guy and Israetel.

 

[Jefferson]

One of the guys Attia talks to sometimes, once accused Berg of being a doctor of chiropractic? I thought he was a medical doctor, but I guess I just assumed he was an MD.

I always knew he was a Chiropractor. He's actually more of a journalist reporting on new studies by experts in various fields. I think he does a great job at it.

It's like four weeks in now, and I'm eating today and this will be the seventh day of eating in those four weeks, so that's an average of less than two days of eating per week.

That's some discipline. Mad respect.

 

[Idolater]

I always knew he was a Chiropractor. He's actually more of a journalist reporting on new studies by experts in various fields. I think he does a great job at it.

Seeing him as a journalist would help a lot, in fact it might even be the right way to consume any social media content, just as if you're consuming journalism. Makes sense.

It would also help sort these channels of content appropriately, if you sort these people with other journalists that's an interesting structure.

If Dan Rather hosted a health and exercise Youtube channel that would certainly be worth checking out lol.

That's some discipline.

Food is the ultimate placebo. Pretty much no matter what, if you eat, you'll feel better.

Mad respect.

And plus, I even got stronger in my deadlift somehow, over the past few weeks.

I cut way back on lifting for this fasting cut phase /experiment, I'm only doing deadlifts (and other exercises) once a week instead of twice or more, and now only three sets a workout, so typically when bulking I'm doing 10 sets a week or more of deadlifts, I'm only doing three sets a week now. But I still was able to lift 330 LBS (c. 10% less weight than when bulking) 10 times the other day, when in past weeks I only lifted it eight times. So that's pretty awesome. I'm preserving muscle pretty well I think. And that's the whole idea, is to cut fat and preserve muscle.

 

[Nick M]

The body produces HGH when fasting. Making body building (specifically) tricky, as insulin is the fat storage hormone that will carry nutrition into cells. Fasting is good, gluttony is bad. In general. There are many good sources who watch what they say on the subjects without being crass, if you are concerned.

 

[Jefferson]

Seeing him as a journalist would help a lot, in fact it might even be the right way to consume any social media content, just as if you're consuming journalism. Makes sense.

It would also help sort these channels of content appropriately, if you sort these people with other journalists that's an interesting structure.

If Dan Rather hosted a health and exercise Youtube channel that would certainly be worth checking out lol.

There is so much disagreement in medicine largely due to doctors having too much skin in the game favoring one particular view. Someone employed by Big Pharma isn't going to be open minded about a natural, wholistic approach. But a journalist shouldn't care. A true journalist should only care about the facts, not whose bank account gets harmed.

Case in point with me. I had severe high blood pressure to point where I had a stroke. The medical "industry" (as I like to call it) put me on a bunch of pills. The pills helped a little but my BP was still always way too high. Then I learned from a journalist that the medical industry only knows the cause of 10% of BP cases. The cause of the other 90% are a complete mystery to them. This journalist came to the conclusion that other 90% was a lack of potassium.

I decided to supplement with the USRDA of potassium and my BP rapidly dropped down to normal. Perfectly normal. 120/80.

That journalist was Dr. Berg.

I think those at the top of the medical industry know potassium is the missing link but they can't patent it. They also can't talk about it because Big Pharma would lose billions.

Food is the ultimate placebo. Pretty much no matter what, if you eat, you'll feel better.

And plus, I even got stronger in my deadlift somehow, over the past few weeks.

That's amazing.

I cut way back on lifting for this fasting cut phase /experiment, I'm only doing deadlifts (and other exercises) once a week instead of twice or more, and now only three sets a workout, so typically when bulking I'm doing 10 sets a week or more of deadlifts, I'm only doing three sets a week now. But I still was able to lift 330 LBS (c. 10% less weight than when bulking) 10 times the other day, when in past weeks I only lifted it eight times. So that's pretty awesome. I'm preserving muscle pretty well I think. And that's the whole idea, is to cut fat and preserve muscle.

 

[Idolater]

The body produces HGH when fasting. Making body building (specifically) tricky, as insulin is the fat storage hormone that will carry nutrition into cells. Fasting is good, gluttony is bad. In general. There are many good sources who watch what they say on the subjects without being crass, if you are concerned.

I wonder who they are. I haven't found anyone yet with higher quality content than Israetel. He's the crass option, but I don't know a non-crass option with as high quality content.

 

[Nick M]

 

[Nick M]

There is so much disagreement in medicine largely due to doctors having too much skin in the game favoring one particular view.

I don't think there is any disagreement. I think they know and don't care if they hurt people. And as such they lie. Just like theology. Unless you think the people here are actually stupid. I realized more than 10 years ago they are not.

 

[Jefferson]

I don't think there is any disagreement. I think they know and don't care if they hurt people. And as such they lie. Just like theology. Unless you think the people here are actually stupid. I realized more than 10 years ago they are not.

True. The mantra of the medical industry is "First, do no harm." They're lying. It's actually, "First protect the profitability of the medical industry."

 

[Nick M]

Amazon.com

I have seen others use the book and point out how known standards are ignored. Just like the coronavirus treatment hoaxes.

 

[Nick M]

And the bureaucracy did observe what Guyton Hall says about nutrition in people.

Recently, we have found that insulin inhibits lipolysis and promotes triglyceride storage

Only recently? The wicked are estranged as soon as they are born, speaking lies from the womb. Paraphrased this time.

 

[Idolater]

And the bureaucracy did observe what Guyton Hall says about nutrition in people.

Only recently? The wicked are estranged as soon as they are born, speaking lies from the womb. Paraphrased this time.

Insulin also ports carbohydrates into muscle as glycogen, which is the other sink for blood sugar. Glycogen is important for lifting weights, as beyond your first rep or two, muscles consume glycogen for energy to move the weight.

Attia did a piece once about his personal experience with keto, he said it took him 18 months to regain his strength in the weight room from the lack of carbohydrates in his diet. That's frankly amazingly long.

Balancing act I guess.