Katrina Damage

[BillyBob]

Good night, commie! :wave2:

I guess there is nothing to be gained by pointing out that you started it.

 

[servent101]

PureX

What I'm seeing in new Orleans is what I believe to be an endemic problem being brought to light by extraordinary circumstances. As long as all these poor people were tucked away in their run-down neighborhoods, mostly praying on each other, and willing to accept the pittance we give them in leu of a real job (that we will not give them) then we could pretty much pretend that they don't exist, and that they don't resent our laws and our police and our white faces and our whole social structure for what we've been doing to them.

How do you provide a job for people if they as you say are prone to

mostly praying on each other (I gather this means stealing and hurting one another to somehow get what they think they want)

And as far as

that they don't resent our laws and our police and our white faces and our whole social structure for what we've been doing to them.

Well they are free to read – and there are libraries, and there are people who crawl out of that lifestyle – both black and white.

We can spew platitudes about pulling ourselves up by the bootstraps and all that and we can ignore the fact that we wouldn't even let them have the boots.

This is somewhat true – people need “something”… but to some degree it is the school of hard knocks that helps people to decide to find another “way” at looking at life and doing what they have done in the past.

We ignore the fact that our whole government and social system in this country is intent on helping the "right people" get rich, and stay rich, while just placating and exploiting everyone else.

I do agree with you – that there are files kept on people by certain concealed groups – even making files on grade 3 students – but this is not the Government nor us. It is possible for a very small percent of the population to do a whole lot of social engineering – but it is not the government nor social system.

Then something like this disaster comes, and strips away our pretty facade of freedom and justice and fairness, and we're forced to see what our system has really been doing to people, and what they have become as a result. And we REALLY don't want to be seeing this. We really don't want to see that the reason we have so much is because so many others have so little.

yes there are a lot of people who have so little – but if you look at percentages – almost ¾ of the people in America have their own homes or are in the process of making mortgage payments …. As far as the looters –most likely less that ½ of 1% of the people will be doing the looting – but since there is a few million people there – that one half of one per-cent does seem to be a lot of people.

And we really don't want to see that we're no more deserving of what we have then they are. So we do what we've always done. We hate them. We hate them for representing the fruits of our own greed. And we blame their suffering on them, so we can pretend it's not our fault. We even tell ourselves that it's good that they suffer, that it will teach them to be stonger and to become aggressive and greedy (we call it "hard-working") like us. But even when they do, we still don't like 'em. We still don't want them around. They still remind us of our own selfishness. This is especially true of people of color. Just their physical appearance reminds us of what an unfair advantage we've had, and how we don't really deserve to have so much more just because we're white.

Just as there are those few who are looters there are those few who are as you say

They still remind us of our own selfishness. This is especially true of people of color. Just their physical appearance reminds us of what an unfair advantage we've had, and how we don't really deserve to have so much more just because we're white

So what you say is true… it is just not representing the majority of people – and for most people regardless of race or gender our worst enemies are ourselves. If we could only learn how to deal with our lives in some sort of cognitive positive self talk and gain a little wisdom and knowledge what barriers are ahead of us individually would be easily overcome.

Your comment here

I think it's good that America is finally getting to see it's own citizens wallowing in filth and greed and lawlessness.

I think sums up your post – as it is you who is doing this wallowing in filth – and I hope you do not do as what you perceive your fellow citizens are going to do

Take a good look. I'm sure PureX will be sweeping it under the rug just as soon as he can.

PureX – as I told you before – we become what we perceive around us to a great extent – see the total picture, see the good in your fellow human beings… you were really wallowing in the mire there with that post. Snap out of it!

With Christ’s Love

Servent101

 

[BillyBob]

How do you [anyone defending the looters] explain the fact that Cops were looting? How do you explain the fact that the only cops seen looting were black?

 

[PureX]

PureX

How do you provide a job for people if they as you say are prone to: "mostly praying on each other" (I gather this means stealing and hurting one another to somehow get what they think they want)?

Please understand that this problem is now endemic. We have created generations (ie: a whole sub-culture) of people who are convinced that they're locked out of the the nation's economy as a whole, for life. There will be no convincing many of them otherwise, at this point, and were we to have experienced what they've experienced we would be no different. And there will be no way of changing the violent and self-destructive response to this hopelessness that some have fallen into, either. What has been done has been done. But we can at least be honest enough to admit that much of what has been done, has been done by our own greed and prejudice as much as by the failing of others.

What we can do now, is stop supporting the conditions that have created the problem. We need to look inside ourselves, and recognize that we are greedy and prejudiced and frightened by anyone that looks "different" from us, and that because we are this way, we have created a sub-culture of anger, and resentment, and hopelessness and despair among African Americans. THEY ARE NOT IMAGINING OUR PREJUDICE, IT IS REAL. They may be using it as an excuse for not trying harder to overcome the obstacles that we're placing before them, but frankly, I think it's outrageous that we should accuse them of this when it's we who are presenting the obstacles in the first place.

The problem isn't just that we won't give them decent jobs, the problem is WHY we won't give them decent jobs. And that's where the solution has to begin - with why we will not give them decent jobs. Until we get honest about this, the problem will persist, and it will mostly be our own fault.

And as far as "... that they ... resent our laws and our police and our white faces and our whole social structure for what we've been doing to them". Well they are free to read – and there are libraries, and there are people who crawl out of that lifestyle – both black and white.

Yes, there are. But we make it so ridiculously difficult that only a few will have the strength and determination and ability and luck to make it out. The rest will give up in the face of such constant negation, and they will fall pray to all the usual problems that come with chronic poverty. And all it's so unnecessary. It's the result of nothing but stupid, blind, fear and prejudice.

This is somewhat true – people need “something”… but to some degree it is the school of hard knocks that helps people to decide to find another “way” at looking at life and doing what they have done in the past.

The "school of hard knocks" will inspire some to try harder, and to be tougher (which can have very bad effects of it's own later on) but it will also destroy many. This is not an abstract discussion, people suffer and die horribly every day in this country from grinding poverty. The "bootstrap school of hard knocks" platitudes are not changing this reality at all. In fact all they do is give the people who are responsible for much of this suffering a pathetic excuse to blame their victims; one that they latch onto tenaciously and reiterate over and over and over again, not surprisingly. Maybe if they say it enough times they'll even manage to convince themselves of it. But it's BS. And it always was.

I do agree with you – that there are files kept on people by certain concealed groups – even making files on grade 3 students – but this is not the Government nor us. It is possible for a very small percent of the population to do a whole lot of social engineering – but it is not the government nor social system.

I wasn't referring to any secret conspiracies or covert social engineering. I was referring to how the people in power in business are of the same race, creed, and social classes as the people in government, and how every decision they make, consciously and unconsciously is designed to keep them in these positions of power, and to keep everyone else out. And the more "different" you are from "them", the more obstacles they will put between you and those positions of power. Skin color seems to weigh in heavily as a "difference", which is why so many European "outsiders" have eventually been let into the power elite while people of color remain locked out.

yes there are a lot of people who have so little – but if you look at percentages – almost ¾ of the people in America have their own homes or are in the process of making mortgage payments …. As far as the looters –most likely less that ½ of 1% of the people will be doing the looting – but since there is a few million people there – that one half of one per-cent does seem to be a lot of people.

Of course it's the poor who are doing the looting. They have the most need, and the most resentment against the system that has helped to keep them poor all their lives, and they have the least respect for this system's laws - especially property laws. The rich don't loot because they already own everything they need, and they know they can always get more. The property laws are designed to help them keep what they already have. Why should someone who has nothing and knows that they never will have anything care about the protection of property? And the fact that so many of the poor are also black, is the evidence of American racism staring us all right in the face. And just look at us all squirming and blaming and making excuses; trying to ignore the obvious.

So what you say is true… it is just not representing the majority of people – and for most people regardless of race or gender our worst enemies are ourselves. If we could only learn how to deal with our lives in some sort of cognitive positive self talk and gain a little wisdom and knowledge what barriers are ahead of us individually would be easily overcome.

I agree that we are our own worst enemies, but when we're also the power elite, our flaws destroy other people, instead of ourselves. So I'm not going to allow personal weakness as an excuse for people who hold the economic and political power. They wanted the power, they wanted the wealth, and they knew they didn't deserve it any more than anyone else. Yet they hoarded it and protected it for themselves, and shut everyone else out as best they could. They have no excuse for the harm they've done to others. And to the extent that we support them, we have no excuse, either.

This is what I want Americans to see in this disaster ... themselves. Those people suffering from this disaster are us. They are our responsibility, both good and bad. We created New Orleans. The hurricane just stripped away the pretty facade that's been hiding what we've been doing behind it.

 

[servent101]

PureX

This is what I want Americans to see in this disaster ... themselves. Those people suffering from this disaster are us. They are our responsibility, both good and bad. We created New Orleans. The hurricane just stripped away the pretty facade that's been hiding what we've been doing behind it.

Again - it is not real - what you say is indicative of a very small per-cent of people and in such a large population this does add up to a large number... but what you post here

So I'm not going to allow personal weakness as an excuse for people who hold the economic and political power. They wanted the power, they wanted the wealth, and they knew they didn't deserve it any more than anyone else. Yet they hoarded it and protected it for themselves, and shut everyone else out as best they could. They have no excuse for the harm they've done to others. And to the extent that we support them, we have no excuse, either.

is just a hog wash - black wash (the opposite of white washing something) of the actual reality - and unfortunately anyone who believes you is probably going to take this as career advice anyways - how to get ahead in life... and then they go out and do those dispicable acts to your credit - and to credit of people who spout the same synical perspectives.

And although you start the paragraph with

I agree that we are our own worst enemies

you don't do anything to suggest how and what we as people, black white or yellow, can do to stop being our own worst enemies - instead you give a good example of what people who are their own worst enemies believe about society - they simply black wash everything, and yes some do white wash everything - but the truth is not as you "paint it". Yes there are some as you say - but they are few, and if someone believes the whole world is like that - they will subconsciously make their expectations come true. Their is something to be said for consistency in society - but in the 1900's this was more of a problem, but today we are becoming a more progressive society and concepts like your preach simply are not that predominant anymore. Yes there is "some" of what you say happening - but I disagree on the extent of the problem. The world is getting smaller and smaller and the sooner we start to realize how to make that 97% of the brain that we do not use work for us the better. These people who are Black are at an advantage... they know they have to be smarter, faster, wiser and knowledgeable than the ordinary person - but who tells them that? - Not you... you just make the matter worse by saying that there is no way out for most of the Black people. The more people like you they have in their corner - the worse they are off.

I do not deny that the problems Black people face exist - it is just that the reality is that they have to accept that they have to be smarter, faster and more wiser and knowledgeable than the "average Joe" to be successful. In a way to have to activate that subconscious part of our minds... as necessity is the mother of invention - these people have the need to find the means to succeed - in a way counting themselves blessed for their disadvantage is an out and out right lie - but in the telling of the lie - the truth is that this is what activates that part of our mind that will help with the solving of the problem... if you get my jist?

Anyways most Americans do not mean to discriminate against Black people... yes they do at times and it almost takes a month of school to lean how not too - but the onus is on the Black people to step up to the plate and overcome – and they can either be thankful for that or be persuaded by the kind of apathy you apply which in my view anyways simply does the Black people no service whatsoever.

And yes I know it is insanity to ask Black people to be thankful for what they have endured… but this does release the 97% of the brain that we normally do not use so that we find the inspiration to overcome our trials.

With Christ's Love

Servent101

 

[anna]

Hey Y'all,
I just heard that there will be a website called rescueparty.org It's a site that will enable victums of Katrina and people who want to help them to communicate with each other. There is also a segment on 60minuates tonight ( I think)that will feature segments from the film "New Orleans: A Natural History" by Walter Williams( a native New Orleanean filmaker and creator of Mr. Bill).

:rain:

 

[Gaviidae]

Reading some more, it would appear that 98% of the residents of the worst damaged area were blacks. That would certainly account for the lack of diversity amongst the evacuees, especially in the news footage. Certainly makes more sense than all poor people in New Orleans are black so the only people left behind were black.

Right. Now, how do you explain the fact that 98% of the poorest people in New Orleans were black, when black people only make up 67% of the total population?

What?!? :think: I said 98% of the people in the parish that was hit hardest by the flood were black. Please don't twist my words...

 

[Gaviidae]

Any way that doesn't threaten the comfort zone of the white people in power. Mostly it means dress, talk, think, and act unthreateningly "like your white bosses want you to act". You know, like Colin Powell or Condi Rice. Most black people can't or won't do that, and we fear and resent them because of it.

But then you go and blame racism for their lack of upward mobility. This has nothing to do with race (at least not this particular issue). It's about culture. White's who tatoo their face and wear outrageously spiky hair or whatever noncomformist thing they choose also have limited avenues for monetary advancement.

It's not about race, it's about acting, as you say, "white" not about being born white.

When in Rome do as the Romans. When in corporate America do as the corporate Americans.

 

[BillyBob]

Oh, so when you're in the ghetto, you must act like a......


:nono:

 

[docrob57]

The looting part of this story is unbelievable.

So the question is, should they bother rebuilding New Orleans? It's just gonna happen again....and again....

Yeah gee, it's happened so many times before. Like . . . . . ?

 

[Gaviidae]

Yeah gee, it's happened so many times before. Like . . . . . ?

Like in 1965. But more importantly, do you think this will never happen again? Hurricanes will no longer appear in the coast and the Mississippi will remain in it's banks?

Fact is, hurricanes that would have as much if not more destructive power to New Orleans come very close every decade. In the past, they've missed. Even Katrina actually missed. But someday one will hit just right. And that'll be nothing compared to Katrina.

Out here we have something you've probably heard of; Mt. St. Helens. It exploded 25 years ago. It happened last 3,000 years ago. Less time than the last time a hurrican blew through New Orleans. Yet, we have not built around the blast zone. Aruments like yours could say it's only happened once and we could build homes all over the blast zone. But luckily, there are people with more sense. It may be 3,000 more years before the next blast or it may be 3. But whatever it is, it will happen again and we shouldn't rebuild there.

I've heard it will cost $15+ billion to protect New Orleans. That's a lot of money for what has become a minor city.

 

[BillyBob]

Yeah gee, it's happened so many times before. Like . . . . . ?

New Orleans has only been around for a couple hundred years.....the point is that Hurricanes will continue to hit and New Orleans is below sea level.....do the math.

How many more times should this happen before you agree that N.O. should be abandoned?

 

[CrimsonHope]

Is anyone here going out to help anytime during this week over there? Or maybe a church nearby that is receiving help to sustain refugees? The reason I'm asking is because my girlfriend and I are interested in helping, just that she doesn't want to donate to organizations like the Red Cross because she thinks that maybe the money will not be used or spent some other way. (I truly doubt that that's true, but I can't move her from that position, LOL). So basically she wants to send the stuff directly, preferably in necessary items rather than money. Thanks guys.

 

[anna]

I got this from the Berean Call website: :rain:

If you have good quality Bibles, please mail them directly to the address below.

Also, there is a good deal on KJV bibles at Christianbook.com. A case of 36 KJV Bibles is $54.99 (CBD Stock No: WW63325CS), or individual KJV Bibles are $1.99 (CBD Stock No: WW633253).

Have the Bibles shipped directly to:

Pastor Bruce Hollen
Calvary Chapel of the Woodlands
5 Silver Elm Place
The Woodlands, TX 77381

 

[Jujubee]

Here is a link for Glenn Beck's website, he has quite a few articles [a couple dozen or so] on Katrine linked there. It's convenient.

There are articles about looting, suicides, transporting survivors to the Houston Astrodome, oil business etc.

http://www.glennbeck.com/page2/index.shtml

I am sorry who is Glenn Beck?

 

[Army of One]

I am sorry who is Glenn Beck?

:shocked: Actually I had no idea who he was until a co-worker told me about him about 6 months ago. He is a conservative radio talk show host. I've only listened to him briefly a few times, but he seems pretty entertaining.

 

[Jujubee]

:shocked: Actually I had no idea who he was until a co-worker told me about him about 6 months ago. He is a conservative radio talk show host. I've only listened to him briefly a few times, but he seems pretty entertaining.

cool thanks... i am checking his website out!

 

[wickwoman]

To respond to Purex's questioning of why black = poor in New Orleans. A large percentage of the black people in the south are poor because they are the descendants of a displaced African race used as slaves. Certainly, some of the blame can go to racism, but very much goes to the difficulty of going from a negative balance (being owned) to have nothing (being free but "equal") and then working your way up to having things and being able to support yourself. Only recently have equitable conditions given black people the opportunity to take advantage of things like education and a better life for themselves. But, still, their own cultural disadvantage is coming from a whole other culture and having the form a new culture for themselves through the hardships of slavery and then discrimination. It takes a very long time to pull yourself up from a negative balance. That's just mathematics. All of it cannot be blamed on racism. I think the majority of what you see now is the result of a displaced culture and the difficulties involved in forming a new way of relating to a foreign culture.

 

[BillyBob]

:cow:

 

[docrob57]

Like in 1965. But more importantly, do you think this will never happen again? Hurricanes will no longer appear in the coast and the Mississippi will remain in it's banks?

Fact is, hurricanes that would have as much if not more destructive power to New Orleans come very close every decade. In the past, they've missed. Even Katrina actually missed. But someday one will hit just right. And that'll be nothing compared to Katrina.

Out here we have something you've probably heard of; Mt. St. Helens. It exploded 25 years ago. It happened last 3,000 years ago. Less time than the last time a hurrican blew through New Orleans. Yet, we have not built around the blast zone. Aruments like yours could say it's only happened once and we could build homes all over the blast zone. But luckily, there are people with more sense. It may be 3,000 more years before the next blast or it may be 3. But whatever it is, it will happen again and we shouldn't rebuild there.

I've heard it will cost $15+ billion to protect New Orleans. That's a lot of money for what has become a minor city.

Hurricane Betsy did lots of damage, but it was nothing like this. In the coming months, I am afraid you will learn how minor the city in terms of the port, the energy industry, etc.