Kate's Law

aCultureWarrior

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Kate's Law passed today. Great news. Since Trump took over, the border has been much more secure

The author of that legislation would have made a great President.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) introduced Kate’s Law last July after 32-year-old Kate Steinle was killed by an illegal immigrant. Her killer had been deported five times previously before returning to San Francisco, a “sanctuary city” that has dangerously relaxed immigration policies. Kate’s Law would place a minimum sentence of five years on any illegal immigrant who reenters the country.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2016/06/30/kates-law-gets-vote-in-the-senate-n2185956
 

eider

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Kate's Law passed today. Great news. Since Trump took over, the border has been much more secure

Amazing legislation! A wonderful piece of political....... wobbly goofiness! :chuckle:

Let's look at some basics.......

1. Because a bad Mexican National entered illegally and committed manslaughter/murder(?) this law has been passed to stop Iranians, Libyans, Syrians, Somalians, Sudanese and Yemens from entering the USA unless their immediately next of kin live there. :idunno:

2. If any genuine refugees from these lands can manage to gain entry onto USA soil, all they have to do is report to the nearest law-enforcement station, because a Mandatory Jail Sentence of five years is theirs, automatically...... and they get bed, board, warmth etc and safety from whatever they were running from. It is estimated that the US prison population could rise by circa 50,000, which is not desired much at this time. :idunno:

3. Obviously some very bad people can come from these nations as listed above, but some very bad people also exist in Saudi Arabia, the far East, Pakistan..... oh, the rest of the World...... so 'good luck' with that. :idunno:

4. There will be much back slapping and self congratulation if this Bill becomes Act, and then all that the USA will need to worry about is the 50 suicides, 40 gun killings and 191 gun injuries that US folks suffer from EACH DAY in the USA. :idunno:

I'm sorry that Kate was killed/murdered on that pier, and for her family's loss, but her name may have been given to a messed-up cause, and that really is sad.
 

patrick jane

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I'm sorry that Kate was killed/murdered on that pier, and for her family's loss, but her name may have been given to a messed-up cause, and that really is sad.
So you're against laws protecting US citizens from repeat ILLEGAL immigrants? Gotcha
 

eider

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So you're against laws protecting US citizens from repeat ILLEGAL immigrants?
Oh no..... I'm all for laws that deter crimes, I just don't think this law will protect US citizens. Let's see if it can work. I doubt it. But it will increase your prison population with genuine refugees.

Now do you get me?
 

The Barbarian

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The best things about the law are, it probably won't hurt anything, and it
cam give law enforcement another hammer.

The unfortunate thing is that illegal aliens tend to be law-abiding,so they don't present as big a threat as native-born Americans.

And some law enforcement people worry that it will make illegal aliens less likely to cooperate with police when someone else violates the law. The real advantage to sanctuary cities is that such people aren't afraid to come forward and speak to police, since the police won't question them about their status.

Trump has so far shown more talk than action, BTW:

Donald Trump was the self-described “law and order candidate,” who vowed five days after he won the U.S. presidential election to immediately deport 2 to 3 million undocumented immigrants who had committed crimes. Now, 91 days into his presidency, new figures show he has fallen far short of that promise.

Between Trump taking office on January 20 and March 13, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 21,362 undocumented immigrants and deported 54,741 people. Compared to the same period last year, this marks both an increase and a decrease. Under Trump, arrests are up by 33 percent, but deportations are down by 1.2 percent.

The comparatively small drop in deportations is not necessarily a sign that the law and order candidate has gone soft. Unlike arrests, deportations are not instantaneous acts. But it signals that Trump so far hasn’t been able to carry out his campaign promises to push for mass deportations and arrests. He hasn’t even managed to beat former President Barack Obama’s record. Under the Obama administration, ICE agents arrested 29,238 undocumented immigrants in the first few months of 2014.

Obama directed his administration to focus on undocumented immigrants who had committed crimes and people who had recently crossed the border. In November 2014, he split these people into three categories for immigration officials to target. The biggest priority were “noncitizens apprehended immediately at the border, gang members, and noncitizens convicted of felonies or aggravated felonies.” Next were people who had been “convicted of three or more misdemeanors or one serious misdemeanor” and had arrived in the U.S. after January 1, 2014, as well as migrants abusing visa programs. The third priority was immigrants who had been issued with an order of removal on or after January 1, 2014.

http://www.newsweek.com/illegal-immigration-undocumented-migrants-obama-trump-585726
 
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aCultureWarrior

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...The unfortunate thing is that illegal aliens tend to be law-abiding,so they don't present as big a threat as native-born Americans.

The fact that they are here illegally makes them criminals. Either do away with immigration laws (open borders for everyone) or enforce them.

Regarding your bold faced lie about illegal aliens not posing a big threat:

Statistics show the estimated 11.7 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. account for 13.6 percent of all offenders sentenced for crimes committed in the U.S. Twelve percent of murder sentences, 20 percent of kidnapping sentences and 16 percent of drug trafficking sentences are meted out.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/09/1...htening-toll-illegal-immigrant-criminals.html
 

The Barbarian

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The fact that they are here illegally makes them criminals.

No. You're dead wrong about that. It's not a crime to visit the U.S. and then overstay. It's entirely a civil matter. It's a crime to illegally enter, but not to come in legally and then violate the visa conditions. Melania Trump, for example worked while holding a tourist visa. It was illegal, but not criminal.

If someone comes across the border, ostensibly to go shopping, and just never goes back, he commits no crime. Maybe it should be. But it's not. It's amazing the number of supposed "experts" who don't know this.

A central point of an executive order President Trump signed on Wednesday — and a mainstay of his campaign speeches — is the view that undocumented immigrants pose a threat to public safety.

But several studies, over many years, have concluded that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people born in the United States. And experts say the available evidence does not support the idea that undocumented immigrants commit a disproportionate share of crime.

“There’s no way I can mess with the numbers to get a different conclusion,” said Alex Nowrasteh, immigration policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, which advocates more liberal immigration laws.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/us/trump-illegal-immigrants-crime.html?mcubz=1

Why are immigrants' incarceration rates so low?
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf

Either do away with immigration laws (open borders for everyone) or enforce them.

That's a remarkably reasonable idea from you, Connie. I'm a bit disappointed that Trump has so far, not been as effective in deporting illegal immigrants. He's big on talk, but not so big on action:

Donald Trump was the self-described “law and order candidate,” who vowed five days after he won the U.S. presidential election to immediately deport 2 to 3 million undocumented immigrants who had committed crimes. Now, 91 days into his presidency, new figures show he has fallen far short of that promise.

Actual deportations are about 1.2% downfrom Obama's average.

Between Trump taking office on January 20 and March 13, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 21,362 undocumented immigrants and deported 54,741 people. Compared to the same period last year, this marks both an increase and a decrease. Under Trump, arrests are up by 33 percent, but deportations are down by 1.2 percent.
http://www.newsweek.com/illegal-immigration-undocumented-migrants-obama-trump-585726

Stopping more people, deporting fewer. Trump all over.

Rupert Murdoch, MA, Founder, Executive Chairman and CEO of News Corporation, in a July 12, 2015 pair of Twitter posts, available at twitter.com, stated:

"Mexican immigrants, as with all immigrants, have much lower crime rates than native born. Eg El Paso safest city in U.S. Trump wrong.

http://immigration.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000782
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

The fact that they are here illegally makes them criminals.

No. You're dead wrong about that. It's not a crime to visit the U.S. and then overstay. It's entirely a civil matter...

Except that Kate's law isn't about people who overstay their visa's, it's about those who enter the US illegally.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) introduced Kate’s Law last July after 32-year-old Kate Steinle was killed by an illegal immigrant. Her killer had been deported five times previously before returning to San Francisco, a “sanctuary city” that has dangerously relaxed immigration policies. Kate’s Law would place a minimum sentence of five years on any illegal immigrant who reenters the country.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2016/06/30/kates-law-gets-vote-in-the-senate-n2185956

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Regarding your bold faced lie about illegal aliens not posing a big threat:

Statistics show the estimated 11.7 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. account for 13.6 percent of all offenders sentenced for crimes committed in the U.S. Twelve percent of murder sentences, 20 percent of kidnapping sentences and 16 percent of drug trafficking sentences are meted out.


"Mexican immigrants, as with all immigrants, have much lower crime rates than native born. Eg El Paso safest city in U.S.

I see that you've once again changed the subject, this time from illegal immigrants to just immigrants.

Typical barbarian.
 

The Barbarian

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

The fact that they are here illegally makes them criminals.

No, as you just learned, it's only a crime to enter the United States illegally. If you enter legally and overstay your visa (as many undocumented workers do) or enter on a tourist visa and work, (as Melania Trump did), it's not a crime. It's just a civil offense.

Except that Kate's law isn't about people who overstay their visa's, it's about those who enter the US illegally.

I see you've once again changed the subject from people here illegally to people entering illegally. Typical Connie.

And I already pointed that out. It's why I said it probably won't do any harm, even if it really doesn't make things better. Obama's ICE was already applying Kate's law by putting all their resources into finding such people. As you also learned, Trump hasn't done quite as well; already fewer deportations.


Regarding your bold faced lie about illegal aliens not posing a big threat:

You use that word a lot. It's sort of a marker that you're caught peddling something you know is false.

Statistics show the estimated 11.7 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. account for 13.6 percent of all offenders sentenced for crimes committed in the U.S. Twelve percent of murder sentences, 20 percent of kidnapping sentences and 16 percent of drug trafficking sentences are meted out.

And 76 percent of all statistics on the internet are just made up on the spot. Checkable source?

Politifact noted last year that there's no national database of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants or study that tracked the crimes they have committed. "The challenge in finding concrete numbers is due to a shortfall of data," Politifact said.

The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. tripled between the 1990s and 2013, while violent crime declined 48% and property crime fell 41% over that period.

What's more, a slew of studies have found that immigrants as a whole — both legal and undocumented — commit less crime than native-born Americans.

One study in Criminology found that "violent crime rates tended to decrease as metropolitan areas experienced gains in their concentration of immigrants." A 2007 report by a pro-immigrant nonprofit, American Immigration Council, concluded that “for every ethnic group without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are the least educated.”

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...umented-immigrants-commit-more-crimes-n777856

About 4.6 percent of the men and women in Texas prisons are undocumented immigrants with standing requests that they be turned over to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement when their sentences are served, according to data released to The Texas Tribune by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

The statistics reflect detainers that ICE has placed on prisoners. Detainers can be placed on immigrants in the country legally or illegally. The Pew Research Center estimates there are 1.7 million undocumented immigrants living in Texas, about 6.3 percent of the state’s total population

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/02/19/ice-records-reveal-makeup-undocumented-prison-popu/
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Except that Kate's law isn't about people who overstay their visa's, it's about those who enter the US illegally.

I see you've once again changed the subject from people here illegally to people entering illegally. Typical Connie.

I see that your gender confusion still exists (June is a huge month for barbarians).

The subject of the thread is Kate's law: Here is the House of Representative's link:

Short Titles as Introduced
Establishing Mandatory Minimums for Illegal Reentry Act of 2015

Official Title as Introduced
To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to increase the penalties applicable to aliens who unlawfully reenter the United States after being removed
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/3011/all-info

Now that it's once again been established that the bill increases penalties for those who are deported and illegally reenter the United States, give us your ultra liberal thoughts on the matter.
 

The Barbarian

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Now that it's once again been established that the bill increases penalties for those who are deported and illegally reenter the United States

We were just dealing with your misconceptions. As you now realize, it's not a crime to merely be in the United States illegally. It's only a crime if you enter illegally.


give us your ultra liberal thoughts on the matter.

I can give you my libertarian thoughts on the matter again. Since you seem to have missed them the first time, I'll repeat for you:

Barbarian's libertarian thoughts on Kate's Law:
The best things about the law are, it probably won't hurt anything, and it
cam give law enforcement another hammer.

The unfortunate thing is that illegal aliens tend to be law-abiding,so they don't present as big a threat as native-born Americans.

And some law enforcement people worry that it will make illegal aliens less likely to cooperate with police when someone else violates the law. The real advantage to sanctuary cities is that such people aren't afraid to come forward and speak to police, since the police won't question them about their status.

Trump has so far shown more talk than action


Barbarian continues:

As you might know, deportations are actually slightly down under Trump's orders, compared to the number of deportations during the Obama administration. So the net effect has so far been to allow more illegal aliens to remain here.

Which, as you also now learned is not a public safety issue, since illegal aliens are incarcerated at a lower rate than native born Americans.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The subject of the thread is Kate's law: Here is the House of Representative's link:

Short Titles as Introduced
Establishing Mandatory Minimums for Illegal Reentry Act of 2015

Official Title as Introduced
To amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to increase the penalties applicable to aliens who unlawfully reenter the United States after being removed
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-.../3011/all-info

Now that it's once again been established that the bill increases penalties for those who are deported and illegally reenter the United States, give us your ultra liberal thoughts on the matter.

We were just dealing with your misconceptions. As you now realize, it's not a crime to merely be in the United States illegally. It's only a crime if you enter illegally.

I can understand how terribly depressed you are now that your favorite month of the year has passed, but do try to focus here barbarian.

Kate's law will increase penalties to aliens who unlawfully reenter the Unites States after being removed.

And now, barbarian's ultra liberal Libertarian (Libertarians are even more liberal than liberals) thoughts on Kate's law:

I can give you my libertarian thoughts on the matter again. Since you seem to have missed them the first time, I'll repeat for you:

Barbarian's libertarian thoughts on Kate's Law:
The best things about the law are, it probably won't hurt anything, and it
cam give law enforcement another hammer.

"it probably won't hurt anything" (profound).

The unfortunate thing is that illegal aliens tend to be law-abiding, so they don't present as big a threat as native-born Americans...

Still living the liberal Libertarian lie about illegal aliens being law-abiding citizens. Kate's law was established because they aren't.
 

The Barbarian

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Connie whinges:
Still living the liberal Libertarian lie about illegal aliens being law-abiding citizens.

You're a little confused again, Connie. Illegal aliens, by definition aren't citizens. They just happen to be a little more law-abiding than natural-born Americans. And it's not hard to figure out why. They don't want to be deported, and committing a crime is a good way to make that happen.
 

patrick jane

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Connie whinges:


You're a little confused again, Connie. Illegal aliens, by definition aren't citizens. They just happen to be a little more law-abiding than natural-born Americans. And it's not hard to figure out why. They don't want to be deported, and committing a crime is a good way to make that happen.
The facts don't bear that out
 

The Barbarian

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The facts don't bear that out

Even conservative scholars have found that the facts do bear that out:

In fact, most research today finds that immigrants, including undocumented ones, are less prone to crime than are native-born Americans. A 2008 study by researchers at the Public Policy Institute of California found that “the foreign-born, who make up about 35 percent of the adult population in California, constitute only about 17 percent of the adult prison population.” They further noted, “U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated at a rate over two-and-a-half times greater than that of foreign-born men.” A 2010 report from the Berkeley Center for Criminal Justice observed that, between 1991 and 2008, when nearly 3.7 million foreign-born people, about a third of whom were “unauthorized” immigrants, moved to California, the state’s violent crime rate fell by 55 percent. The national violent crime rate also has fallen by more than 70 percent since its peak in 1993 even as the number of immigrants residing here swelled from 20 to 40 million over the past two decades.

...

Let’s set aside the dispute over what the relationship between crime and immigration is for now to consider an interesting new study by team of researchers led by Saint Louis University sociologist Michael Vaughn. That study aims to get beyond the “immigrant paradox” in which immigrants are more socially disadvantaged yet less likely to commit crime. They probe “the full depth of antisocial behavior” using data from the National Epidemiological Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions (NESARC). Since there were two surveys, there is data on changes in antisocial behavior adjusting for the length of time immigrants had lived in the U.S.

Good old-fashioned “root causes” sociology would suggest that since immigrants are more likely to be male, poor, younger, less educated and live in cities, they should be more prone to antisocial behavior. Yet this study reports that they are considerably less antisocial than native-born Americans. This finding applies to immigrants from Africa, Asia, Europe and Latin America.

The NESARC asks participants to self-report on 31 antisocial behaviors including bullying, hurting animals, staying out late without permission, shoplifting, and starting fights.

“Across the board, the prevalence of antisocial behavior among native-born Americans was greater than that of immigrants,” find the researchers. According to the survey, immigrants were particularly less likely than native-borns to engage in behaviors that could hurt others, truancy, stay out late without permission, quit a job without options, shoplift, or do something for which they could get arrested. Native-borns were four times more likely to report violent behavior than Asian or African immigrants and three times more likely than Latin American immigrants. European immigrants were only about third less likely to engage in violence than native-borns.

Why might immigrants be more tractable? Fear of deportation would tend to make people behave, but it could also be that the sort of person who has the gumption to seek a better life in another country may already have the self-discipline to rein in antisocial behavior.

In any case, these findings prompt Vaughn and his colleagues to speculatively ask, “If increased immigration lowers the crime rate, then can immigration be thought of as a crime prevention strategy?”

Well, maybe, but the effect would only be temporary. Every year that an immigrant lives in the U.S. is associated with a 1.9 and 0.9 percent increase in nonviolent and violent crime respectively. Their data also show that the behaviors of the children of immigrants over time begins to resemble that of native-borns. In other words, assimilation means adopting the social (or antisocial) norms of native-born Americans.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/07/11/immigrants-are-less-criminal-than-native

So the good news is that illegal immigrants tend to assimilate and start behaving like Americans. The bad news is that illegal immigrants tend to assimilate and start behaving like Americans.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Still living the liberal Libertarian lie about illegal aliens being law-abiding citizens.

...You're a little confused again, Connie. Illegal aliens, by definition aren't citizens.

"Inhabitant" is a better word.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/citizen

They just happen to be a little more law-abiding than natural-born Americans.

I see that you're continuing to use immigrants that are here legally (i.e. went through the legal process to enter and stay in the United States) to promote statistics saying that illegal aliens are "a little more law-abiding than natural born Americans".

"A 2008 study by researchers at the Public Policy Institute of California found that “the foreign-born, who make up about 35 percent of the adult population in California, constitute only about 17 percent of the adult prison population."

Now that it's been shown once again that you're using false statistics, let's return to talking about Kate's law which deals specifically with people who are deported and illegally reenter the United States.

Congressman Pete Sessions of Texas entered the following information into the Congressional Record on June 29th.


I have heard it said there is no evidence that illegal immigrants
commit crimes at any higher rate than the general population. Well,
that is just not true. It is true that crime statistics don't aggregate
by legal status. Some States, like California, no longer even report
the legal status of inmates. They can tell us by race, gender, age,
background, and jurisdiction who stole a car last year, but they won't
tell us how many illegal immigrants did.

By painstakingly piecing together all of the available fragmented
data in 2015, FOX News concluded that illegal immigrants are three
times more likely to be convicted of murder than the legal population.
According to this report, illegals account for 3.7 percent of the
population but are convicted of 13.6 percent of all crimes, including
12 percent of all murders, 20 percent of all kidnappings, and 16
percent of drug trafficking. Each year, 900,000 illegal immigrants are
arrested for crimes.
Citing the GAO, FOX reported that 55,000 illegal immigrants were in
Federal prison and 296,000 in State and local jails in 2011.
The real
tragedy is that there should be zero crimes committed by illegal
immigrants because there should be zero illegal immigrants in this
country.
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2017/6/29/house-section/article/h5308-2?r=1



The above was placed into the Congressional Record by an elected official of the United States House of Representatives.

Here is the report from the Government Accountability Office (GAO) in which the Fox report used.

March 2011 CRIMINAL ALIEN STATISTICS Information on Incarcerations, Arrests, and Costs
http://www.gao.gov/assets/320/316959.pdf

Refute it.
 
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The Barbarian

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Connie tries a different deception:
The above was placed into the Congressional Record by an elected official of the United States House of Representatives.

Ah, a professional politician says so, and you believe it. We've located your problem, Connie.


Here, from Sessions' own state:
The TDCJ report shows that 4.6 percent are illegal aliens, where they are from and why they are there. It sheds new light on the crime problems associated with illegal aliens in Texas.

The latest polling from Pew Research estimates that 6.3 percent of the Lone Star State’s population or about 1.7 million people are illegal aliens. That would mean that illegal aliens are not as well represented among those locked up with the TDCJ, including some on Death Row.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2016...-nearly-5-percent-of-texas-prison-population/


Sessions is either an ignoramus, or possibly just a bigger liar than most politicians. You choose.
 
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