Justification of Eternal Punishment

Timotheos

New member
those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation


don't like it?

don't reject Christ


think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him

The reason that you were unable to give any Scriptural support for your statement is because the Bible does not say that "those who reject Christ go to hell where they suffer eternal damnation".

I gave you a chance to defend your view and you completely failed. Typical.
 

Timotheos

New member
done it in the past, timmy

so have many others

you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalala i cannnnn't heaaaaaaar youuuuuuuu!"

We both know that isn't true.

If you had a verse that said "those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation" you would have posted it, in order to make me look foolish. The fact that you didn't means that you can't.

Read John 3:16 and tell me if it says the lost "suffer eternal damnation" or they perish.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but will have eternal life."

You are the one saying "lalalalalala i cannnnn't heaaaaaaar youuuuuuuu!"

The wicked will perish. I do not believe you are a Christian, so you also will perish on the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. Jesus Christ said "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish". You should take this message to heart.
 
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ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
We both know that isn't true.


sure it is


there's 900 posts in this thread alone and even more in your dopey annihilation thread


half of them are people trying to make you understand what a fool you are

half of them are you with your fingers in your ears going "lalalalala"

and the other half of them are me mocking you for being an obsessive compulsive idiot :banana:
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
meanwhile, back at the ranch:




those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Grace holds back the effects of sin, else we'd all be experiencing the detriment 100+ fold. I see 'hell' as a removal of that, that we get everything we've sown. I don't know what torments are in hell, but I do believe they are likely self-inflicted. God created the place, but I'm not sure if He constructed the flames. Sin isn't just 'not good.' Sin is torment and wicked. Stealing a piece of candy harms another. "It is just a piece of candy" is a lie. The shop owner may certainly forgive and forbear, but it was a wicked injury to gratify self at the cost to another without regard to his hurt or pain, no matter how small. That is why it is wicked. Hell, without the grace of God, is going to be horrible. It is us, left to ourselves, without God, and without reigns on our own sin condition. That, imho, will be hell: Just me, left alone so I don't harm others, by myself, no sleep, with just myself, stuck in my chosen condition, forever.



can't give rep, so :thumb:
 

Timotheos

New member
meanwhile, back at the ranch:




those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him

And not even one verse of scripture to back up your claim. You fail.

According to the Bible, the wicked will perish and will be no more.
According to the Bible, the day of judgment is a day of destruction of the ungodly.

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish;
the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures;
they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

Psalm 37:10
In just a little while, the wicked will be no more;
though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there.

2 Peter 3:7
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


Unlike you Sod, I can back up what I post with Scripture which confirms what I am saying. You can only make empty claims with no support whatsoever. Epic Fail.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
which does nothing to change the fact that:



those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him
 

Timotheos

New member
which does nothing to change the fact that:



those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him
You know that the Bible does not say this.

It would be so easy for you to shut me up, if the Bible really did say "those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation". Just post the verse that says this. Don't Brag and Boast that you have already posted a verse that says this. Just post one verse from the Bible that says this IF YOU CAN and I will be completely shut up. BUT IF YOU CAN'T, then you need to shut up and stop making claims that are not true.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
listen very carefully timmy:



those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him
 

Timotheos

New member
listen very carefully timmy:



those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him

Chapter? Verse? Didn't Think So.

Shut Up, because you don't know what the Bible says. End of Story.
 

Daley

New member
According to the Bible (which doesn't seem to matter at all to you) the wicked will be punished BY being destroyed.

Isaiah 33:1 ESV
Ah, you destroyer,
who yourself have not been destroyed,
you traitor,
whom none has betrayed!
When you have ceased to destroy,
you will be destroyed;
and when you have finished betraying,
they will betray you.

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish;
the enemies of the Lord are like the glory of the pastures;
they vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

Psalm 37:38
But transgressors shall be altogether destroyed;
the future of the wicked shall be cut off.

I don't know how you can read this and then continue to deny what it says. Look up John 3:16 in your Bible. Tell me what it says. I'm serious, do this. It contradicts your false doctrine!

Isa 33:1 accuses the heathen king of "destroying," but its only physical bodies he was destroying, not the immaterial souls, because Jesus says they (people like this destroyer in Isa 33:1) can kill the body but not the soul. While the word soul does at times mean the body, at other times it definitely refers to another part of us that does not get destroyed when the body dies.

Further, Bible passages that talk about the destruction of the wicked only talk about the ruin of the person, not putting them out of existence. Here is what Greek scholars says about the Greek word for "destroy" in the NT:

"apollumi..."to destroy utterly"; in middle voice, "to perish." The idea is NOT EXTINCTION but ruin, loss, NOT OF BEING, but of wellbeing. This is clear from its use, as, e.g., of the marring of wine skins, Luke 5:37; of lost sheep, i.e., lost to the shepherd, metaphorical of spiritual destitution, Luke 15:4,6, etc.; the lost son, 15:24; of the perishing of food, John 6:27; of gold, 1 Pet 1:7." (W.E. Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, p.164)

So in other words, the wine skins were apollumi (marred) but they still existed. They simply could not fully function the way they were meant to. The sheep and the son are said to be apollumi (lost) but they were still in conscious existence. Food can perish in the sense that it has gone stale, but it still exists, just as gold can perish (apollumi) by being tainted even though it still exists. So when the wicked are apollumi, they are simply ruined in the hereafter, but that doesn't mean they cease to exist.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
those who reject Christ go to Hell where they suffer eternal damnation

don't like it?

don't reject Christ

think it's unfair?

whine to God about it when you're standing before Him

Addressed here :)

I'd put a lot more thought into assuming LOVE is capable of condemning its creation to eternal torment and endless suffering, and keep them in that state for all eternity. Nothing could be more cruel and senseless.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Lessons on 'aion', 'aionion', 'aionios' and 'olam'

Lessons on 'aion', 'aionion', 'aionios' and 'olam'

~*~*~

Excellent teaching videos on the terms 'aion' (a noun) and the other derivatives which are 'adjectival' forms of this noun. These go on to further prove that this word does not mean 'eternal', 'infinite' or 'forever and ever' (unless applied to God or something of the divine nature),...but indicates 'age', 'an indefinite period of time', a 'dispensation'. More facts are shared showing the concept of 'eternal punishment' or 'eternity' applied to this word are erroneous.

Lessons on 'aion', 'aionion', 'aionios' and 'olam'" Part 1



Lessons on 'aion', 'aionion', 'aionios' and 'olam' Part 2


Previous posts with very informative artices are -

here (THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE
Doctrine of Endless Punishment
BY
THOMAS B. THAYER)

&

here ("Eternal" Punishment (Matthew 25:46) Is NOT Found In The Greek New Testament)
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Addressed here :)

I'd put a lot more thought into assuming LOVE is capable of condemning its creation to eternal torment and endless suffering, and keep them in that state for all eternity. Nothing could be more cruel and senseless.


Dear freelight,

God is love also, but some kids won't learn and need a paddling. That's just how it goes. Their mindset delivers them into getting a punishment. God is very fair with who He sends there, but rejecting Christ is one wrong way to go. That's His Son! If the punishment weren't so severe, it is possible that more people would end up going there. That's why and now you know. And yes, the Lord says 'forever.' So make some changes now, if you're going to. There would be no better time.

Praise God, And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

:cry: :rain: :party: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
 

Timotheos

New member
Isa 33:1 accuses the heathen king of "destroying," but its only physical bodies he was destroying, not the immaterial souls, because Jesus says they (people like this destroyer in Isa 33:1) can kill the body but not the soul. While the word soul does at times mean the body, at other times it definitely refers to another part of us that does not get destroyed when the body dies.
You seem to be missing the point of Isaiah 33. Certainly, the heathen king can't kill the soul, but the passage is saying that the heathen king who has destroyed will be destroyed. You forgot the second part of what Jesus said when He said that people can't kill the soul. He said "fear the one who CAN destroy the soul". The heathen king will be destroyed by the one who can destroy the soul.

Concerning apolumi, whenever it is used of a person it, means their death. When it is used of the soul it means the death of the soul. People are not pottery that can be dashed to pieces and still survive it. Furthermore, apolumi - destruction is not the only way the those who are to be destroyed are described. The Bible also says that they will be no more. This is unmistakable (unless you WANT to mistake this for "Will exist forevermore", it's odd but some people do want it to mean that). Also, aside from destruction, which you haven't proven means "never destroyed", Matthew 3:12 says the wicked will be burnt up. I don't know if you can read Greek (I read a Chapter of the NT in Greek everyday) but the word for "burnt up" in Matthew 3:12 is κατακαύσει (katakausei) and it means to completely burn down. You can see the Greek word "kaio" in katakausei, which means to burn, and you can see the prefix "kata", which means down. Katakausai can't be made to mean "burn alive but never be consumed by fire" which it would HAVE to mean if the sadistic doctrine were correct.
 

Timotheos

New member
Dear freelight,

God is love also, but some kids won't learn and need a paddling. That's just how it goes. Their mindset delivers them into getting a punishment. God is very fair with who He sends there, but rejecting Christ is one wrong way to go. That's His Son! If the punishment weren't so severe, it is possible that more people would end up going there. That's why and now you know. And yes, the Lord says 'forever.' So make some changes now, if you're going to. There would be no better time.

Praise God, And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

:cry: :rain: :party: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

I hope that you understand that when we say that the wicked will be punished by complete destruction, we are not saying that they will somehow escape being punished by complete destruction. This is the most severe punishment possible. This is a much worse punishment than merely leaving the person alive forever. This is complete destruction. Some people disagree that complete destruction is worse punishment than "a paddling" in hades. They can think that if they want to. The point is that complete destruction is as harsh a punishment as anyone could wish for, and the wicked bring it on themselves. I'm sick of people misrepresenting the destruction of the wicked as no punishment at all. They wouldn't want to be destroyed themselves! You wouldn't want to be destroyed. God saves people from this destruction, He sent His only Son to save people from destruction. Sin destroys, but God rescues the sinner from destruction when he repents and turns to God. Death is the enemy, but the Bible says that Death will be defeated by God, and I have faith in God that He will defeat death.
 
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