Did Jesus teach that the rich man when he died was in torment?
Did Jesus teach that the rich man when he died was in torment?
You do NOT agree with Christ. Jesus said that the road is wide that leads to destruction, but you believe that nobody will be destroyed.
I agree with Jesus Christ who said "the way is wide that leads to destruction". Do you agree with Christ that the wide road leads to destruction, or do you believe that the wide road leads to eternal torture in hell?
Did Jesus say that he was in eternal torment? No.
We are talking about the final judgment, not the intermediate state.
You still haven't answered the simple question, "According to Romans 6:23, which says that the wages of sin is death, what is the wages of sin?"
He who hath Christ hath life, he who hath not Christ hath not life. Death in the bible is the absence of God. Hell is the absence of God it is what the wicked have chosen for themselves.
So you think the rich man was tormented some....is God cruel and sadistic to allow him to be tormented some? Babies are born physically dead...they need to be made to breathe, hence the smack to make them cry.
You see that the rich man was in a place of torment, he was not annihilated. Or was Jesus lying?
But you do see that he died and was not annihilated but was in a place of torment...an intermediate state of torment huh? it has lasted at least 2, 000 years already so is God cruel and sadistic to leave him for thousands of years in torment?
I will not waste time discussing this with you
I am here to say
that
what you said about tim
is
unjustified
and
unchristian
If I had said "these will go into eternal punishment" you would have a case...moreover you are out of line with Catholic teaching
That is what I am saying. However you claim that he hath not Christ hath eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever, so you are contradicting the very passage you are using to try to convince of eternal torture.
The Bible doesn't EVER say that death is the absence of God. You are just making things up now.
I believe that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, was a parable. Jesus was not talking about the final state of the unrepentant.
No, babies are NOT born physically dead. You are simply wrong about this.
The parable of the rich man is not about the final judgment.
God is the God of the living not the God of the dead, the living and the dead are side by side. Death is absence of spiritual life.
You agree that the rich man died..but he was not annihilated, he continued to exist.
You say his torment [which you accuse God of being cruel and sadistic to inflict] was intermediate, already 2, 000 years, so that is not cruel and sadistic you think
That the human baby is born dead is just a biological fact...they must be made to breathe
You agree that the rich man died..but he was not annihilated, he continued to exist.
You say his torment [which you accuse God of being cruel and sadistic to inflict] was intermediate, already 2, 000 years, so that is not cruel and sadistic you think
That the human baby is born dead is just a biological fact...they must be made to breathe
You are confused.
According to the Bible, the wicked will perish. See Psalm 37:20
This means that the wicked will perish. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the wicked will be no more. See Psalm 37:10
This means that the wicked will be no more. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, Sinners will be altogether destroyed. See Psalm 37:38
This means that sinners will be altogether destroyed. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the soul who sins shall die. See Ezekiel 18:4
This means that the soul who sins shall die. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the way is wide that leads to destruction. See Matthew 7:13-14. This means that the way is wide that leads to destruction. This means that the wicked will be destroyed. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the wicked will have both their bodies and souls destroyed in hell. See Matthew 10:28 This means that their souls and their bodies will be destroyed. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death. See Romans 6:23 This means that the wages of sin is death. This means that the wages of sin is NOT eternal torture in hell. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the penalty is destruction. See 2 Thessalonians 1:9. This means that the penalty is destruction. This means that the penalty is not eternal torture in hell. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
According to the Bible, the destruction of Sodom is an example of the coming destruction of the wicked. See Jude 1:7, Peter also says this. This means that the wicked will be destroyed just as the people of Sodom were destroyed. This means that the wicked will not have eternal life in hell being tortured alive forever. This is a fact, this is what the Bible says. You can't deny it.
The simple fact is that you do not believe what the Bible says, you believe your doctrine of torture instead of the Bible.
I don't know if I will ever convince you that the Bible is right, but perhaps I can convince you that babies are not born dead.
Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Abortion?
I am pro life, myself, because I believe that life starts at conception. Do you agree with this concept? If you do, you must also agree that babies are alive inside the mother's womb. If they are alive in the womb, what makes them dead at the moment of birth?
Do you think that because a baby is nourished by the mother and only starts to breathe when he or she is out of the womb, he or she only begins to live when they start to breathe? Logically that is unsound. When I swim underwater I am not breathing, does that mean that I am dead? Of course not.
If a person is dead, then that person cannot grow. Do babies grow? Of course they do. So they are alive.
It is a biological fact that babies are born alive, and if a baby is born dead, then he or she is dead and the sad family has a funeral for him or her.
You are confused by your insistence on the doctrine of eternal torture. Why don't you simply believe what the Bible says, instead?
You misunderstood what I wrote. John was not a sadistic thug, and he also did not write that the wicked would be sent to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever while they are dead.
No, you misunderstood what I wrote. I didn't say that God, or John is a sadistic thug. I said that sadistic thugs like you will never accept a god who is not just as sadistic as you are. Since the True God is not sadistic enough for you, you have invented a doctrine and a "god" who IS sadistic enough for you.
M
Man.0
Guest
Nor is there such a thing as eternal destruction.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Wait, are you trying to compare eternal, interminable unending suffering with a jail sentence for murderers? Do you see every atheist, agnostic and those of differing beliefs etc as the equivalent of people who take a life without remorse? The mind boggles if you do, not just for the silly comparison but also for the coldness and callousness you must have for all people who don't believe as yourself. It's downright sick and twisted.
way 2 go
Well-known member
They always say God is evil for punishing the wicked
God will prevail when he is judged.
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, "That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged."
Rom_3:4 No, indeed! God tells the truth, even if everyone else is a liar. The Scriptures say about God, "Your words will be proven true, and in court you will win your case."
Yes, i am comparing self inflicted torment, to someone unrepentant in prison for life.
No, i see them as people who refuse to admit they are sinners and bend their knee to their maker and receive Christ.
Feel free to make up what i think all you want.
That's right. It also would be insanely unjust to torture prisoners who are in prison for life, yet that is what these people claim that God does. God is not unjust, He does not torture people in hell. What would be the point? Why not just allow them to perish?
No, we are not saying that God is evil for punishing the wicked. We are saying that God does not punish the evil BY TORTURING THEM. He punishes the evil by destroying them. God tells the truth, even when you lie about Him and claim that He tortures the lost in hell forever.
2 Peter 3:7 (ESV) says "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."
I don't know how anyone could read that and come away from it thinking, "the ungodly will not be destroyed on the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly, they will be kept alive to be tortured forever instead". A person who thinks that would have to be completely stupid.