Just One Gospel?

[Clete]

Moderator note: This thread was split from post #156 of Closed view [non-Calvinist] and OSAS - :turbo:

Originally posted by elected4ever
God does not teach 2 or 3 gospels. Just one.

Really?

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Clete

Really?

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.


Resting in Him,
Clete

:up:

elected4ever,

For more on this topic, check the thread The Gospel, especially posts 10 and 15 and also 4.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by Clete

Really?

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.


Resting in Him,
Clete

I was referring to our modern situation vs Mormonism, etc. ('restored gospel'). I recognize progressive revelation, covenants, and dispensations (though not Mid-Acts view).

 

[elected4ever]

Originally posted by Turbo

:up:

elected4ever,

For more on this topic, check the thread The Gospel, especially posts 10 and 15 and also 4.

Your brain dead!:doh:

 

[elected4ever]

Matthew 28:19 _Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 _Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[godrulz]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Your brain dead!:doh:

Your brain is dead?

You're brain dead?

I'm telling your teacher

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Matthew 28:19 _Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 _Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Unresponsive! So Jesus told the disciples to teach everything He taught. He didn't teach not to be circumcised in fact He taught to follow all the law, the smaller matters and the bigger ones as well. When did Jesus ever teach anything that even remotely sounds like the gospel according to Paul?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. And this is precisely what I mean by cryptic and vague (although when I used those terms, I didn't have you specifically in mind). You quote a piece of Scripture and then say nothing about how you are applying that Scripture or why you even quoted it. We cannot read you mind.

 

[elected4ever]

John 6:37 _All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:39 _And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 _And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 _No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 _It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.[.b]

47 _Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Looks to me like Jesus did preach the same gospel as is tought today.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by elected4ever
Looks to me like Jesus did preach the same gospel as is tought today.

If so then....

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.!

Are you going to respond to the questions or continue to avoid the point?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[elected4ever]

Originally posted by Clete

If so then....

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.!

Are you going to respond to the questions or continue to avoid the point?

Resting in Him,
Clete

Are you saying that what was cited above is not the gospel?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by elected4ever
Looks to me like Jesus did preach the same gospel as is tought today.

Then He called His twelve disciples together and gave them power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases. He sent them to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick. And He said to them, [jesus]"Take nothing for the journey, neither staffs nor bag nor bread nor money; and do not have two tunics apiece.

"Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them." [/jesus]

So they departed and went through the towns, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere. Luke 9:1-6​

Did Jesus send the apostles to preach that He would die for our sins, be buried, and be raised from the dead on the third day? Well, later in that very chapter Jesus tells the apostles for for the first time that he will be killed and be raised on the third day, and He tells them not to tell anyone...

And He strictly warned and commanded them to tell this to no one, saying, [jesus]"The Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day." [/jesus] Luke 9:21-22​

...and then later when Jesus reiterates that he will be tortured, killed, and raised on the third day, Luke records that the twelve apostles did not understand what He was saying:

Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, [jesus]"Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of Man will be accomplished. For He will be delivered to the Gentiles and will be mocked and insulted and spit upon. They will scourge Him and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again." [/jesus]
But they understood none of these things; this saying was hidden from them, and they did not know the things which were spoken. Luke 18:31-34​

How could the twelve have been preaching that Christ would be killed and be raised on the third day if they had not yet heard it, and when they did hear it they still didn't get it? And why would Jesus order them to tell no one that He would be killed and raised on the third day if He had already sent them out to preach it?

Do you now see that the twelve must have been preaching something other than Christ's death, burial, and resurrection Luke 9:1-6?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Are you saying that what was cited above is not the gospel?

It's not the gospel that Paul preached.

• Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
  For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 15-1-4
  
  
  that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

 

[elected4ever]

So?Is what Jesus preached the gospel or not?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by elected4ever

So?Is what Jesus preached the gospel or not?

During His earthly ministry, Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom. This is not the gospel that Paul preached (which he received from Chist himself), which is the gospel we preach today.

 

[Turbo]

e4e,

Originally posted by Turbo

Do you now see that the twelve must have been preaching something other than Christ's death, burial, and resurrection Luke 9:1-6?

 

[Sozo]

This is a great topic! Is there any way it could be carried over into another thread?

I am very interested in getting involved, because there is validity to both sides presented by e4e and Turbo.

Clearly Jesus proclaimed His death and resurrection, whether or not His disciples (or anyone else) understood Him. However, there is a distinction between what Paul preached and what Jesus told His disciples to preach.

 

[elected4ever]

Originally posted by Sozo

This is a great topic! Is there any way it could be carried over into another thread?

I am very interested in getting involved, because there is validity to both sides presented by e4e and Turbo.

Clearly Jesus proclaimed His death and resurrection, whether or not His disciples (or anyone else) understood Him. However, there is a distinction between what Paul preached and what Jesus told His disciples to preach.

Although the content of the messages of Paul and the 12 were different it was still the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 24:14 _And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Sozo]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Although the cantent of the messages of Paul and the 12 were differant it was stell the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Matthew 24:14 _And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Like I said, this is a great topic!

Which "end" do you think Jesus was speaking of?

"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

 

[Turbo]

Sozo, I'll probably split this thread tonight.

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by elected4ever

Are you saying that what was cited above is not the gospel?

What I am saying is that you are not answering the question.

Where in the four gospels is Jesus ever recorded as having uttered the word grace?

Where in the four gospels did Jesus ever say anything remotely like, "...if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Where did Jesus ever say, "Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. ", or "if you become circumcised, I (Christ) will profit you nothing."

Where? Did anyone before Paul ever say such things in connection with the gospel? NO! I think not! Either the Gospel changed or else Paul is a fraud. Take your pick.!


I want for you to answer these questions directly! Will you do it, or will you continue to ignore the argument? This is now the 3rd time (or 4th if you count the responses you've made to Turbo) that you have evaded answering the questions posed to you. Are you still confused about why someone might thing you were a bit cryptic or vague in communicating your beliefs? Stop playing games and just answer the questions. If your position is correct you should be able to do so without doing injury to your position. If that cannot be done then your case is beyond weak and you should desire to abandon your position for one that more closely adheres to the Biblical record.

Resting in Him,
Clete