John 20:28 and the Trinity

7djengo7

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Contrary to popular modern belief, ‘The God of this age’, (ho Theos tou aiōnos toutou), actually pertains to Jesus Christ and NOT Satan, and provides yet another potent scriptural proof for Jesus’ deity.

Interesting claim. I don't recall having encountered it before. But, why would Jesus Christ be inhibiting the light of the glorious gospel of Himself from shining unto them that are lost? And, cannot/does not Satan blind the minds of them which believe not? Why do you think Paul is talking about Jesus and not about Satan?

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4
 

Apple7

New member
Interesting claim. I don't recall having encountered it before. But, why would Jesus Christ be inhibiting the light of the glorious gospel of Himself from shining unto them that are lost? And, cannot/does not Satan blind the minds of them which believe not? Why do you think Paul is talking about Jesus and not about Satan?


Simple exegesis...


Outside of 2 Cor 4.4, the only other inflections of ‘blinded’ (i.e. etyphlōsen & etyphlōken), used in the entire NT, are located in John 12, and 1 John 2, and have Jesus as the subject:

• John 12 records that Isaiah wrote about Jesus, ‘The Arm of God’, ‘His Glory’ as blinding the thoughts of the unbelievers.

• 1 John 2 records without Jesus’ light, the unbelievers are blinded.



Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.
 

7djengo7

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Simple exegesis...


Outside of 2 Cor 4.4, the only other inflections of ‘blinded’ (i.e. etyphlōsen & etyphlōken), used in the entire NT, are located in John 12, and 1 John 2, and have Jesus as the subject:

• John 12 records that Isaiah wrote about Jesus, ‘The Arm of God’, ‘His Glory’ as blinding the thoughts of the unbelievers.

• 1 John 2 records without Jesus’ light, the unbelievers are blinded.



Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.

I don't see what you meant in saying that 1 John 2:11 has "Jesus as the subject". In 1 John 2:11, John didn't say that Jesus blinded someone:

But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Rather, John said that darkness blinded someone. Jesus isn't darkness, and darkness isn't Jesus.
 

Apple7

New member
I don't see what you meant in saying that 1 John 2:11 has "Jesus as the subject". In 1 John 2:11, John didn't say that Jesus blinded someone:



Rather, John said that darkness blinded someone. Jesus isn't darkness, and darkness isn't Jesus.

1 John 2 declares the Light of Jesus overcoming the evil one.

The one without Jesus' Light is in darkness.

Again...it all about Jesus controlling the sight of the Righteous, as only God can do.
 

NWL

Active member
1 John 2 declares the Light of Jesus overcoming the evil one.

The one without Jesus' Light is in darkness.

Again...it all about Jesus controlling the sight of the Righteous, as only God can do.

This still doesn't answer 7djengo7 point that 1 John 2:11 states "darkeness" has blinded a person who errors.

Moreover your argument that you've held for a little while now is not consistent with scripture. In scripture both before and after the resurrection of Jesus Satan is the portrayed as the ruler of that age/world.

(John 14:30) "..[Jesus said] I won't talk with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me.."

(1 John 5:19) "..We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.."

(Ephesians 2:2) "..in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.."


The very context of 2 Cor 4:4 contradicts your claim that Jesus is here being referred to as ho thoes since in the latter part of the very same verse Christ is identified, not as ho thoes, but as the image of the God.

Furthermore, the verse states that 'the god has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that the illumination of the good news of Christ might not shine through'. This statement makes no sense if Jesus is the one who is not allowing the light shine through as seen in 2 Cor 4:4, since John 12:46 has Jesus announce "I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in darkness". Jesus with his light is unblinding the people in darkness, this can also be seen in 2 Cor 4:6 where it states:

"For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made this light shine in our hearts so we could know the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ"

Thus Jesus cannot be "the god" who is blinding the mind of unbelievers yet at the same time be un-blinding the eyes of unbelievers.

Again...it all about Jesus controlling the sight of the Righteous, as only God can do.

Where in scripture does it ever say only God can control the sight of the righteous? Assumptions galore.
 

Apple7

New member
This still doesn't answer 7djengo7 point that 1 John 2:11 states "darkeness" has blinded a person who errors.

On the contrary, it is the darkness void left without Jesus' Light that blinds a person.

Hence, Jesus is the one controlling the event.



Moreover your argument that you've held for a little while now is not consistent with scripture. In scripture both before and after the resurrection of Jesus Satan is the portrayed as the ruler of that age/world.

(John 14:30) "..[Jesus said] I won't talk with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me.."

This is Pre-Cross scripture.

Satan was bound at The Cross.





(1 John 5:19) "..We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.."


1 John 5.18 – 19

οιδαμεν οτι πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου ουχ αμαρτανει αλλ ο γεννηθεις εκ του θεου τηρει αυτον και ο πονηρος ουχ απτεται αυτου οιδαμεν οτι εκ του θεου εσμεν και ο κοσμος ολος εν τω πονηρω κειται

Oidamen hoti pas ho gegennēmenos ek tou Theou ouch hamartanei all' ho gennētheis ek tou Theou tērei auton kai ho ponēros ouch haptetai autou oidamen hoti ek tou Theou esmen kai ho kosmos holos en tō ponērō keitai

We know that everyone being born from God does not sin, but The One having been born from God guards him, and The Evil One does not touch him. We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of The Evil One.

Context is always king.

This passage, in 1 John 5, informs the reader that Satan (the Evil One) cannot do anything to the people of God.

Juxtaposed to this very succinct proclamation of The Devil’s impotence, is the assertion that the entire world is subjected to his ‘power’ (i.e. demons, as proclaimed throughout scripture).

Clearly, Satan is bound….but his demons are not.

Simple Biblical truth.
 

Apple7

New member
(Ephesians 2:2) "..in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.."


Eph 2.1 - 3

και υμας οντας νεκρους τοις παραπτωμασιν και ταις αμαρτιαις υμων εν αις ποτε περιεπατησατε κατα τον αιωνα του κοσμου τουτου κατα τον αρχοντα της εξουσιας του αερος του πνευματος του νυν ενεργουντος εν τοις υιοις της απειθειας εν οις και ημεις παντες ανεστραφημεν ποτε εν ταις επιθυμιαις της σαρκος ημων ποιουντες τα θεληματα της σαρκος και των διανοιων και ημεθα τεκνα φυσει οργης ως και οι λοιποι

Kai hymas ontas nekrous tois paraptōmasin kai tais hamartiatis hymōn en hais pote periepatēsate kata ton aiōna tou kosmou toutou kata ton archonta tēs exousias tou aeros tou pneumatos tou nyn energountos en tois huiois tēs apeitheias en hois kai

And you being dead in the trespasses and the sins of you, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit at present putting forth power inside the sons of disobedience, among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.



Again...

Satan is not present...rather his 'power' i.e. his demons are still active.
 

Apple7

New member
The very context of 2 Cor 4:4 contradicts your claim that Jesus is here being referred to as ho thoes since in the latter part of the very same verse Christ is identified, not as ho thoes, but as the image of the God.

Where is Satan mentioned?

He's not.

Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.
 

Apple7

New member
Furthermore, the verse states that 'the god has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that the illumination of the good news of Christ might not shine through'. This statement makes no sense if Jesus is the one who is not allowing the light shine through as seen in 2 Cor 4:4, since John 12:46 has Jesus announce "I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone putting faith in me may not remain in darkness". Jesus with his light is unblinding the people in darkness, this can also be seen in 2 Cor 4:6 where it states:

"For God, who said, "Let there be light in the darkness," has made this light shine in our hearts so we could know the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ"

Thus Jesus cannot be "the god" who is blinding the mind of unbelievers yet at the same time be un-blinding the eyes of unbelievers.



Where in scripture does it ever say only God can control the sight of the righteous? Assumptions galore.


Outside of 2 Cor 4.4, the only other inflections of ‘blinded’ (i.e. etyphlōsen & etyphlōken), used in the entire NT, are located in John 12, and 1 John 2, and have Jesus as the subject:

• John 12 records that Isaiah wrote about Jesus, ‘The Arm of God’, ‘His Glory’ as blinding the thoughts of the unbelievers.

• 1 John 2 records without Jesus’ light, the unbelievers are blinded.




It is most interesting that you completely IGNORE John's recording of what Isaiah had to say regarding Jesus, The Arm of God, God, Himself, when He purposefully blinds whom He will.
 

NWL

Active member
On the contrary, it is the darkness void left without Jesus' Light that blinds a person.

Hence, Jesus is the one controlling the event.
If this is the case then to say that Jesus is the ho theos in 2 Cor 4:4 goes contrary to what you just said. The verse states the ho thoes, namely Jesus in your eyes, blinded the minds of unbelievers, yet your claim is that "it is the darkness void left without Jesus' Light that blinds a person". Jesus not allowing his light to shine on an already blind person is very different to actively blinding individuals as 2 Cor 4:4 expresses.

Only Satan is described as actively deceiving and misleading people from Christ, not Christ himself.

This is Pre-Cross scripture.

Satan was bound at The Cross.

So? Does this mean mean that you accept what I said in regards 1 John 5 or Eph 2? I think not.

Where does it state Satan was bound at the cross, again this is your false assumption.

1 John 5.18 – 19

οιδαμεν οτι πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου ουχ αμαρτανει αλλ ο γεννηθεις εκ του θεου τηρει αυτον και ο πονηρος ουχ απτεται αυτου οιδαμεν οτι εκ του θεου εσμεν και ο κοσμος ολος εν τω πονηρω κειται

Oidamen hoti pas ho gegennēmenos ek tou Theou ouch hamartanei all' ho gennētheis ek tou Theou tērei auton kai ho ponēros ouch haptetai autou oidamen hoti ek tou Theou esmen kai ho kosmos holos en tō ponērō keitai

We know that everyone being born from God does not sin, but The One having been born from God guards him, and The Evil One does not touch him. We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of The Evil One.

Context is always king.

This passage, in 1 John 5, informs the reader that Satan (the Evil One) cannot do anything to the people of God.

Juxtaposed to this very succinct proclamation of The Devil’s impotence, is the assertion that the entire world is subjected to his ‘power’ (i.e. demons, as proclaimed throughout scripture).

Clearly, Satan is bound….but his demons are not.

The original point made wasn't about if Satan did or did not have power over believers, but rather, if he was was the one mentioned as the "ho theos" in 2 Cor 4:4 who was actively blinding unbelievers.

It would go without saying that if the Devil had no power of Jesus when he came to earth, that he would have no power over Jesus followers either since Jesus protects them, I have no issue with this and never claimed otherwise.

Where does scripture state Jesus was bound? What do you personally mean when you say Satan was bound.

Again...

Satan is not present...rather his 'power' i.e. his demons are still active.

Where does it reflect that in the scripture? I don't see it saying anywhere that Satan was not present, that the power referred to the influence that Satan had or that the "spirit" (singular) mentioned referred to evil spirits.
 

NWL

Active member
The very context of 2 Cor 4:4 contradicts your claim that Jesus is here being referred to as ho thoes since in the latter part of the very same verse Christ is identified, not as ho thoes, but as the image of the God.

Where is Satan mentioned?

He's not.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because Satan isn't mentioned along with the reference of ho theos in 2 Cor 4 doesn't mean that it isn't regarding him.

Where is Satan ever directly referenced as being the ruler of the world? Yet I'm sure if I asked who the ruler of the world is in such verses as John 14:30 you'd state it was Satan. Poor reasoning.

Contextually, the epithets contained within 2 Cor 4, including Theos, relate to Jesus…not to Satan.

Contextually, Christ is referred to being the image of the God according to 2 Cor 4:4, thus excluding him from being Theos, this is irrefutable.
 

NWL

Active member
Outside of 2 Cor 4.4, the only other inflections of ‘blinded’ (i.e. etyphlōsen & etyphlōken), used in the entire NT, are located in John 12, and 1 John 2, and have Jesus as the subject:

• John 12 records that Isaiah wrote about Jesus, ‘The Arm of God’, ‘His Glory’ as blinding the thoughts of the unbelievers.

• 1 John 2 records without Jesus’ light, the unbelievers are blinded.



It is most interesting that you completely IGNORE John's recording of what Isaiah had to say regarding Jesus, The Arm of God, God, Himself, when He purposefully blinds whom He will.

God often speaks of doing things himself when in fact he is prophetically stating what will take place. God does not infringe on people's freewill especially in cases where he it proving his sovereignty, yet God made clear statements that HE hardened Pharaoh heart when we know this would actually be contrary to Gods way and working against himself. Likewise, by what is said in Isaiah 6:9,10 God is claiming he will literally harden the hearts of people but rather its God prophetically explaining that his actions to lead his people will fall on deaf ears and unresponsive people.

I think the apostle Paul would agree with me and disagree with you on this one, he did not see the reference of Isaiah 6:10 as claim that God literally blinds the minds of ones whom he actually wants to serve him, since God wants all people turn around from sin and worship him. God does not work against himself, this is something Paul clearly understood.

(Acts 28:23-27) "..They now arranged for a day to meet with him...from morning to evening, he explained the matter to them ...to persuade them about Jesus... Some began to believe the things he said; others would not believe. 25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment: “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers, 26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “You will indeed hear but by no means understand, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 27 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn back and I [Jehovah] heal them..”

Paul clearly stated they were the ones who blinded themselves and deafened themselves as they were unresponsive due to their lack of stubbornness.

Again, to claim that God blinds people goes against his very nature and his actions for people to preach to all persons and would mean that God works against himself.

(2 Peter 3:9) "..the Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.."
 

Apple7

New member
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because Satan isn't mentioned along with the reference of ho theos in 2 Cor 4 doesn't mean that it isn't regarding him.

As stated before, and, of which, you continue to ignore, context is king.

2 Cor describes a plethora of epithets for Jesus, not Satan.

Word of God
The Truth
Glory of Christ
Image of God
Christ Jesus as Lord
Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ
etc, etc, etc.



Where is Satan mentioned?

That's correct...nowhere.


Furthermore, 2 Cor 4 quotes Isaiah and the Psalms, and these OT passages contain nothing regarding Satan.

So...again you have nothing.




Where is Satan ever directly referenced as being the ruler of the world? Yet I'm sure if I asked who the ruler of the world is in such verses as John 14:30 you'd state it was Satan. Poor reasoning.

Rev 1.5 further proves that Satan was bound at The Cross, when it declares Jesus as being the Ruler of the earth due to His blood which released us from our sins.

Scripture prior to The Cross mentions, repeatedly, that Satan is the Ruler.




Contextually, Christ is referred to being the image of the God according to 2 Cor 4:4, thus excluding him from being Theos, this is irrefutable.

As the God-man, no scripture thwarts that Jesus is God.
 

Apple7

New member
God often speaks of doing things himself when in fact he is prophetically stating what will take place. God does not infringe on people's freewill especially in cases where he it proving his sovereignty, yet God made clear statements that HE hardened Pharaoh heart when we know this would actually be contrary to Gods way and working against himself. Likewise, by what is said in Isaiah 6:9,10 God is claiming he will literally harden the hearts of people but rather its God prophetically explaining that his actions to lead his people will fall on deaf ears and unresponsive people.

I think the apostle Paul would agree with me and disagree with you on this one, he did not see the reference of Isaiah 6:10 as claim that God literally blinds the minds of ones whom he actually wants to serve him, since God wants all people turn around from sin and worship him. God does not work against himself, this is something Paul clearly understood.

(Acts 28:23-27) "..They now arranged for a day to meet with him...from morning to evening, he explained the matter to them ...to persuade them about Jesus... Some began to believe the things he said; others would not believe. 25 So because they disagreed with one another, they began to leave, and Paul made this one comment: “The holy spirit aptly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your forefathers, 26 saying, ‘Go to this people and say: “You will indeed hear but by no means understand, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 27 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn back and I [Jehovah] heal them..”

Paul clearly stated they were the ones who blinded themselves and deafened themselves as they were unresponsive due to their lack of stubbornness.

Again, to claim that God blinds people goes against his very nature and his actions for people to preach to all persons and would mean that God works against himself.

(2 Peter 3:9) "..the Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.."


Scripture speaks for itself.

Let it speak.

In lieu of this, you completely skip over John 12 in favor of your own diversionary dialogue.

Let's show you, first-hand the passages that you thought best to utterly ignore...


John 12.35 - 41

Then Jesus said to them, Yet a little while the Light is with you. Walk while you have the Light, that darkness not overtake you. And the one walking in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the Light, believe into the Light, that you may become sons of Light. Jesus spoke these things, and going away He was hidden from them. But though He had done so many miraculous signs before them, they did not believe into Him,so that the Word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he said, "Lord, who has believed our report? And the arm of the Lord, to whom was it revealed?" Isa. 53:1 Because of this they could not believe, because Isaiah said again, "He has blinded their eyes" and "has hardened their heart," "that they might not see with the eyes" and "understand with the heart," "and be converted," "and I should heal them." Isa. 6:10 Isaiah said these things when he saw His glory, and spoke about Him.


So...

Look at what you just missed.

John directly quotes Isaiah, of which declares that Yahweh, THE ARM OF THE LORD, has blinded the eyes and hearts of the people.

Jesus tells you in this passage that it is about HIM, the Arm of God, whom Isaiah saw and wrote about as blinding the eyes and hearts of people.


This is doubly confirmed in the quoted passage from Isaiah, that you failed to quote...



Who has believed our report? And to whom is the arm of Yahweh revealed? Isa 53.1




Isaiah 6


In the year that King Uzziah died, then I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up. And His train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphs. Each one had six wings; with two he covered his face; and with two he covered his feet; and with two he flew. And one cried to the other and said, Holy, holy, holy is Yahweh of Hosts; all the earth is full of His glory!
And the doorposts shook from the voice of the one who cried; and the house was filled with smoke. Then I said, Woe is me! For I am cut off; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live amongst a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of Hosts. Then one of the seraphs flew to me with a live coal in his hand, snatched with tongs from the altar. And he touched it on my mouth, and said, See, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is covered. And I heard the voice of Yahweh, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us? Then I said, Behold me. Send me! And He said, Go and say to this people, Hearing you hear, but do not understand; and seeing you see, but do not know. Make the heart of this people fat, and make his ears heavy, and shut his eyes, that he not see with his eyes, and hear with his ears, and understand with his heart, and turn back, and one heals him. Then I said, Until when, O Lord? And He said, Until cities lie desolate without one living in them, and the houses without man, and the land is laid waste, a desolation; and until Jehovah has sent mankind far away, and the desolation in the midst of the land is great. But yet a tenth shall be in it, and it shall return and be consumed like the terebinth and like the oak that in being felled yet has its stump (the holy seed is its stump).


So....no, Satan does not have the power to blind the hearts and minds of the people...but Jesus, as God, most certainly does...
 

Apple7

New member
If this is the case then to say that Jesus is the ho theos in 2 Cor 4:4 goes contrary to what you just said.

Jesus is referred to as Theos in several scriptures.





The verse states the ho thoes, namely Jesus in your eyes, blinded the minds of unbelievers, yet your claim is that "it is the darkness void left without Jesus' Light that blinds a person". Jesus not allowing his light to shine on an already blind person is very different to actively blinding individuals as 2 Cor 4:4 expresses.

There is no difference.




Only Satan is described as actively deceiving and misleading people from Christ, not Christ himself.

Not after The Cross.

You can't seem to wrap your mind around what actually occurred at The Cross.

Satan was bound at The Cross.

This is the BIG EVENT.

Knowing this, you must re-program your jaded JW thinking.


So? Does this mean mean that you accept what I said in regards 1 John 5 or Eph 2? I think not.

Why would it?


Where does it state Satan was bound at the cross, again this is your false assumption.

An easier question would be, 'where does it not?'


Heb 2.14

επει ουν τα παιδια κεκοινωνηκεν αιματος και σαρκος και αυτος παραπλησιως μετεσχεν των αυτων ινα δια του θανατου καταργηση τον το κρατος εχοντα του θανατου τουτ εστιν τον διαβολον

epei oun ta paidia kekoinōnēken haimatos kai sarkos kai autos paraplēsiōs meteschen tōn autōn hina dia tou thanatou katargēsē ton to kratos echonta tou thanatou tout' estin ton diabolon

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil;


Pretty clear.
 

Apple7

New member
The original point made wasn't about if Satan did or did not have power over believers, but rather, if he was was the one mentioned as the "ho theos" in 2 Cor 4:4 who was actively blinding unbelievers.

It would go without saying that if the Devil had no power of Jesus when he came to earth, that he would have no power over Jesus followers either since Jesus protects them, I have no issue with this and never claimed otherwise.

Then why do you insist on posting scripture of your own attempting to show otherwise?



Where does scripture state Jesus was bound?

Who, but you, ever made that claim?



What do you personally mean when you say Satan was bound.

Rendered impotent, per scripture.





Where does it reflect that in the scripture? I don't see it saying anywhere that Satan was not present, that the power referred to the influence that Satan had or that the "spirit" (singular) mentioned referred to evil spirits.

As a JW cult follower, when have you ever seriously bothered to study scripture in the first place?
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
As stated before, and, of which, you continue to ignore, context is king.

2 Cor describes a plethora of epithets for Jesus, not Satan.

Word of God
The Truth
Glory of Christ
Image of God
Christ Jesus as Lord
Glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ
etc, etc, etc.



Where is Satan mentioned?

That's correct...nowhere.


Furthermore, 2 Cor 4 quotes Isaiah and the Psalms, and these OT passages contain nothing regarding Satan.

So...again you have nothing.


oh-really-now.gif


No mention of satan in John 14 either

still satan
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



Rev 1.5 further proves that Satan was bound at The Cross, when it declares Jesus as being the Ruler of the earth due to His blood which released us from our sins.
:rotfl:

:nono:
 

Apple7

New member
oh-really-now.gif


No mention of satan in John 14 either

still satan
Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.




:rotfl:

:nono:


John 14 is pre-Cross scripture.

Read before replying...
 

Rosenritter

New member
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because Satan isn't mentioned along with the reference of ho theos in 2 Cor 4 doesn't mean that it isn't regarding him.

Where is Satan ever directly referenced as being the ruler of the world? Yet I'm sure if I asked who the ruler of the world is in such verses as John 14:30 you'd state it was Satan. Poor reasoning.

I can think of a few places where devils are referred to as princes (rulers) of this world.

Daniel 10:20 KJV
(20) Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

So is the being speaking to Daniel fighting with a human prince of Persia and a human prince of Grecia? It seems more likely that these spirit beings are speaking of other spirits, and that these are the true rulers behind these powers.
 
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