Excellent, BR
Jews And Gentiles Same Goal
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
Excellent, BR
I said
lolol One Jesus, one Spirit, one Gospel. If you would find the Holy Spirit you wouldnt have to rely on your theology. Guessing.
[Mat 23:24-26
[24] "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
[25] "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
[26] "Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
I said
lolol Thats it just your own opinion. No scripture, no verses, no spiritual support from the Holy Spirit. You rely on your own opinion when God says not to.
[Rom 12:16
[16] Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
I said
lol Do you know what your own opinion is worth?
[Rom 12:16
[16] Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
I said
lolo Do you see how rediculous that is. Your suggesting that Jesus preached one gospel them told Paul to preach another one or different one. That is suggesting that Jesus lied to Paul.
There were two different approaches in teaching the gospel. One approach was for the Jews and one approach was for the Gentiles. Paul was sent to the Gentiles but at times he also knew how to approach the Jews.
[1Co 9:19-23
[19] For though I am free from all [men], I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win the more;
[20] and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those [who are] under the law, as under the law, that I might win those [who are] under the law;
[21] to those [who are] without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those [who are] without law;
[22] to the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all [men], that I might by all means save some.
[23] Now this I do for the gospel's sake, that I may be partaker of it with [you].
Right Divider
Body part
The "early church" that you describe as a "Jewish sect" was NOT the body of Christ.
The "church" of Acts 2 is NOT the body of Christ. It is ISRAEL in the continuation of THEIR earthly program.
Rosenritter
New member
I have some memories of using basic passages regarding our faith or behavior (or was it the resurrection?) and having it dismissed as "HEBREWS is for the HEBREWS." So here was me, having previously thought all Christians would accept the bible as inspired and applicable for our living, and shocked that the person refused to consider basic application...
I thought it was a dispensationalist thing. Would you be able to forgive the mistaken impression and address the questions regardless? Thanks.
Rosenritter
New member
Perhaps you would like to attempt those questions instead? Those passages above indicate that Gentiles also need to repent, that Gentiles should also be baptized, and that the Jew likewise needs the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. That pretty much erases all the distinctions Bright Raven defined between "two" gospels.
Acts 15:7 KJV
(7) And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Notice that Peter doesn't say "their own gospel" or "a different gospel" but refers to "the gospel" as if this is the same gospel.
Acts 15:8-11 KJV
(8) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(9) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
I'm afraid that blows "two different gospels" out of the water right there. God put no difference between the Jew and the Gentile, and Jews shall be saved even as the Gentiles, through the grace of Jesus.
And yes, GM, bible read cover to cover multiple times, King James, even the "boring" parts of genealogy, even the long words.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let's look at the following verse:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek" (Ro.1:16).
The Greek word translated "gospel" means "good news."
The good news of Christ which was first preached to the Jews is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and those who believed that truth were saved and received life when they were born of God (Jn.20:30-31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).
The good news of Christ which is preached to the Gentiles is centered on the fact that Christ died for our sins and those who believe that gospel are saved (1 Cor.15:1-5).
So we see two different instances of good news and both resulted in salvation for all who believed.
It makes absolutely no difference whether one is a Jew(circumcisied) or a Gentile(uncircumcised) they both live by the same Gospel.
[Gal 5:6
[6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
[Gal 6:15-16
[15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
[16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy [be] upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
[Gal 5:6
[6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.
[Gal 6:15-16
[15] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
[16] And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy [be] upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
Rosenritter
New member
It seems to me that the passage you cited from Romans establishes that there it is correct to say there is one gospel... "the gospel of Christ" is singular. It makes sense that you would approach different groups from different angles, but I am quite certain that the death of Christ for our sins was not omitted in the message to the Jews, and neither was that Jesus was the Son of God omitted from the Gentiles.
When Justin Martyr preached to the Jew he thought it very important to establish that Jesus was the Son of God, meaning our God the creator of heavens and earth. So it doesn't seem that Justin had a "two different gospels" concept either.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Again, the Greek word translated "gospel" means "good news." And as I have already demonstrated the "good news" of Christ preached to the Jews and which brought salvation to all who believed that "good news" is not the same "good news" of Christ which was preached to the Gentiles and also saved those who believed that "good news."
There are many places in the Acts account where we can see what was preached to the Jews and that account will be searched in vain for even one instance where the fact that Christ died for our sins was preached to the Jews!
Again, during the Acts period the Jews were saved by believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (Jn.20:30-31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Can you say that in a way that I can understand?
Rosenritter
New member
Hebrews 9:28 KJV
(28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
I tire of hearing Dispensationalists flip-flop on which books of the bible are applicable to whom. Do you accept the book of HEBREWS to be applicable and written to the HEBREWS?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I am a dispensationalist and the great majority of dispensationalists (including myself) believe that the doctrine found in all of the epistles applies to those in the Body of Christ.
Now back to our discussion concerning the fact that two different gospels were preached during the Acts period. Were you able to find any evidence that indicates that during the Acts period the gospel centered in the fact that "Christ died for our sins" was preached in the synagogues of the Jews?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Very interesting. Rosen quotes it but doesn't see it. :think:
This is when Peter finally understands the difference between what he and the disciples had been preaching, and what Paul preached. Now he says, "We (Jews) shall be saved, even as they (Gentiles). Not, they shall be saved even as we are. There is a distinction there, and words do matter.
Before this time, the message was that Gentiles could only be saved the same way the Jews were. Repent and be baptised....believing Jesus was the Messiah. After this is when Paul wrote Galatians 1:8-9. The twelve preached the "good news" of the Kingdom that Jesus preached during His earthly ministry. Paul's Gospel was what the Risen Lord had revealed to Him, and that is the preaching of the Cross, and justification by faith alone.
I said
It says He died for all.
[2Co 5:14-15
[14] For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;
[15] and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.