Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

[glorydaz]

No @Bright Raven, the point is that in this case how can I know? It sounds like you are telling me to guess and hope I guessed right. So far it sounds like you are telling me you guessed and you have no way of telling if your guess was right, but eternal salvation lies in the balance if you guessed wrong and I believed you.

1. If I am Jewish and you gave me the other gospel, what happens if I try to follow the Gentile gospel that you gave me by mistake?

2. If I am Jewish and you neglected to give me the gospel "for the Jews" then what happens if I do not follow the Jewish gospel?

Do you not know the answers to those questions? I'm sure I've asked them at least three times already.

You've asked amiss....based on your own misunderstanding.

What Gospel is to be preached today? BR told you already. The Gospel of Grace.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:​

 

[Squeaky]

They are not the same. You just do not know how to interpret the scriptures. How many Gospels are mentioned in Galatians 2:7 .

I said
I think I see where you got side tracked. First the word gospels isnt in scripture. Because there is only one gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now Jesus didnt give everything to the apostles He couldnt He wasnt here long enough to do that. So He brought in Paul and gave him the rest. And Paul went to peter to share with each other the parts that Jesus gave to the other. But it is still the one gospel of Jesus Christ.


[Act 15:2-4, 6-9
[2] Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
[3] So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.
[4] And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. ...
[6] Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7] And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
[8] "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us,
[9] "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

 

[Squeaky]

They are not the same. You just do not know how to interpret the scriptures. How many Gospels are mentioned in Galatians 2:7 .

I said
you should read it in context. You keep forgetting its the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your suggesting that Jesus told them two different things. That is rediculous.

[Gal 2:7-9
[7] But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as [the gospel] for the circumcised [was] to Peter
[8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
[9] and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we [should go] to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

 

[glorydaz]

I said
you should read it in context. You keep forgetting its the gospel of Jesus Christ. Your suggesting that Jesus told them two different things. That is rediculous.

[Gal 2:7-9
[7] But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as [the gospel] for the circumcised [was] to Peter
[8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
[9] and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we [should go] to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

When Jesus came to dwell among men, He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:​

The Kingdom He preached was the Kingdom of God on earth where He would sit on David's throne. But, He was rejected and crucified.

Acts 2:22-23 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

Jesus didn't come to earth preaching the cross for salvation. He preached obedience to the commandments, repent and be baptized.

So, when the RISEN LORD appeared to Paul, He had him preach the Cross and the Gospel of Grace. Paul preached justification by faith, and believe unto salvation.

 

[Squeaky]

When Jesus came to dwell among men, He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:​

The Kingdom He preached was the Kingdom of God on earth where He would sit on David's throne. But, He was rejected and crucified.

Acts 2:22-23 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

Jesus didn't come to earth preaching the cross for salvation. He preached obedience to the commandments, repent and be baptized.

So, when the RISEN LORD appeared to Paul, He had him preach the Cross and the Gospel of Grace. Paul preached justification by faith, and believe unto salvation.

I said
That isnt why Jesus came. He came to reveal the kingdom of God. It has nothing to do with David. The kingdom of God is inside you, the ignorant Jews thought Jesus was talking about the throne of David. But He wasnt. He was talking about how they could get free from sin. And that is by going into the kingdom of God and changing.

[Luk 4:43
[43] but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent."
[Luk 8:1, 10
[1] Now it came to pass, afterward, that He went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God. And the twelve [were] with Him, ...
[10] And He said, "To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest [it is given] in parables, that 'Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.'
[Luk 16:16
[16] "The law and the prophets [were] until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
[Luk 17:20-21
[20] Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
[21] "nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
I think I see where you got side tracked. First the word gospels isnt in scripture. Because there is only one gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Now Jesus didnt give everything to the apostles He couldnt He wasnt here long enough to do that. So He brought in Paul and gave him the rest. And Paul went to peter to share with each other the parts that Jesus gave to the other. But it is still the one gospel of Jesus Christ.


[Act 15:2-4, 6-9
[2] Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
[3] So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.
[4] And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. ...
[6] Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7] And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
[8] "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us,
[9] "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

How many Gospels ae mentioned in Galatians 2:7?

 

[Squeaky]

How many Gospels ae mentioned in Galatians 2:7?

I said
One gospel. Same Spirit. [8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

[Gal 2:7-9
[7] But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as [the gospel] for the circumcised [was] to Peter
[8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
[9] and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we [should go] to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
One gospel. Same Spirit. [8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

[Gal 2:7-9
[7] But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as [the gospel] for the circumcised [was] to Peter
[8] (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),
[9] and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we [should go] to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

you don't count so good.

 

[chair]

Irrelevant to the topic.

As are "fairy tales".
My original, on topic point remains. One should consider the historical context of Paul's letters.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

When Jesus came to dwell among men, He came for the lost sheep of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:​

The Kingdom He preached was the Kingdom of God on earth where He would sit on David's throne. But, He was rejected and crucified.

Acts 2:22-23 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

Jesus didn't come to earth preaching the cross for salvation. He preached obedience to the commandments, repent and be baptized.

So, when the RISEN LORD appeared to Paul, He had him preach the Cross and the Gospel of Grace. Paul preached justification by faith, and believe unto salvation.

Amen

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Gentiles need not repent?

2Co 7:9-10 KJV
(9) Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The Gentiles should not be baptized?

Mat 28:19 KJV
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The Jew does not need the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Luk 22:19-20 KJV
(19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
(20) Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Heb 10:26-29 KJV
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I keep forgetting which books are considered applicable to one gospel and which are considered irrelevant. Did I guess correctly? Hebrews for the Hebrews? Gospels for the Jews? Corinthians to the Gentiles?

You'll find the Gospel of the grace of God within Romans through Philemon. You should acquaint yourself with these books. Have you ever read the Bible, cover to cover? If not, I suggest you start. We're living in the 'Dispensation of Grace.'

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You have yet to explain why there is a Gospel to the Jews and Gospel to the Gentiles and the difference between the two. Just so you know the difference is that under the gospel to the circumcision being saved involves repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38) . Under the Gospel to the uncircumcision being saved involves the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) .

Yes, Sir. Amen.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I said
Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to be tested by Peter and the other apostles on the gospel they were teaching. Peter and the other apostles found no difference.

[Act 15:2-4, 6-9
[2] Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.
[3] So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren.
[4] And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. ...
[6] Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter.
[7] And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
[8] "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us,
[9] "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Poor Squeaky, he doesn't KNOW what he's talking about.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I don't see the word "saved" at Acts 2:38.

Besides that, those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith just like the Gentiles:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

You don't know how to 'Rightly Divide the Word.'

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I said
lolol What is wrong with you. Jesus created the gospel, its the gospel of Jesus Christ. It says peter preached the gospel, the apostles preached the gospel, Paul preached the gospel. They all preached the gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the one that called all of them. With one gospel. The gospel of Jesus Christ.

Jesus and His Disciples preached the Kingdom Gospel, whereas, Paul preached the 'Gospel of the grace of God.'

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So before you can present the gospel to someone, they must first learn "dispensational theology." At least the Calvinist is able to preach the gospel and salvation without requiring someone to first learn and accept Calvinism. Do you not feel any shame at your insincerity?

1Pe 3:15 KJV
(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

I'm pretty sure it is not written "be ready always to give an answer .. to those who have first gone and studied the mystery religion called Dispensational Theology."

The problem is, Calvinists believe in Calvinism. If they're being asked (By an unbeliever) what does 'predestination and the Elect mean, don't you think the Calvinist will introduce them to their 'Calvinist false doctrine? If you believe, they won't, you're naive.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You do not understand the Gospel. For me to continue with you is pointless. Come back and talk to me when you have a grasp on dispensational theology. Study Galatians 2:7.

I doubt he's interested in that. Good post, BR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Perhaps he can tell that you aren't willing to hear. :chuckle:

Rosenritter doesn't understand the 'Gospel of the grace of God,' perhaps? There were indeed, two Gospels. The Gospel of the grace of God is for today. The Kingdom Gospel was preached by Christ and His Disciples during His earthly ministry. I know I'm 'Speaking to the Choir,' Glorydaz. You know all of this already, but some here, do NOT.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Perhaps he can tell that you aren't willing to hear. :chuckle:

Yep. His ears are plugged.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The circumcision and uncircumcision are two different groups, Thus two different gospels

And, that's the truth.