Exodus 19, perhaps?
Jewed
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
Exodus 19, perhaps?
you Jewed yourselves
IMJerusha
New member
No perhaps to it. And God speaks to us now just as He spoke to Moses. The Covenant has changed but God's promise is the same...be obedient, honor His Covenant and we will be His most treasured possession. Baruch HaShem!
"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them." John 14:21
Ben Masada
New member
If those who don't believe on Jesus, what will happen, will they belong to a different race?
Thanks for your post, chair.
On the Levite/Davidic component... I can appreciate where you are coming from. However, the Judah component I have a problem with. Judah sired three Canaanite sons via his Canaanite wife, the third surviving was Shelah, who survived to procreate. That God slew his two elder brothers should raise a significant red flag.
Judah's relationship with his Canaanite wife was contrary to Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, reiterated by Ezra in Ezra 9:1, 2. Following Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Moses made it specifically clear the Israelites were God's chosen people a few verses later Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9. Judah was not 'isolated' from among the Israelites entering Egypt. Yet, you suggest the majority of Jews were from the tribe of Judah. Why is this distinction necessary? Judah was an Israelite.
Ezra went further to exclude Judah's Canaanite son Shelah (elder to Pharez via Tamar), and "The sons of Shelah the son of Judah..." (1Chronicles 4:21, 22, 23) from Ezra's tribal roster of Judah in 1Chronicles 4:1 KJV. Therefore, a Shelanite is NOT an Israelite. Abraham's 'progeny' via Keturah, great grandmother of Shelah, were NOT Hebrews... they were the "children of Keturah" (Genesis 25:4), and NOT the 'sons' of Abraham. Ezra reiterated this distinction in 1Chronicles 2:3 kJV.
Things can certainly be different today, but I prefer to begin focusing on what is written. Do you consider a Shelanite to be a Hebrew, or Israelite? Please keep in mind Deuteronomy 25:5, 6 concerning inherited property as Judah gave his widowed daughter-in-law Tamar to Onan...
To my rendering, the Shelanite descendants of Judah were never Israelite, never Hebrew, and clearly refused entry into the Israelite congregation. How do you reconcile this distinction in those days?
As far as a breach in consensus... Ben used the Judah component, exclusively. Yoh shifted from foot to foot, as I now hear you diluting out the significance of Levite/Davidic ancestry, respectfully. In Ben's case, your Levite/Davidic component becomes totally subservient as you paint Jewish ethnicity with a broad, ancestral brush. Ben will unlikely come forth to discuss this distinction, as I suspect he subscribes to Shelanite ancestral superiority above ALL of Abraham's descendants.
There's a breach in consensus on Jewish ethnicity when one looks into the depth of ancestry, chair. Jesus did... those who instigated His crucifixion were Shelanite 'Jews.' Unfortunately, IMJ hasn't yet achieved this distinction found in Revelation 2:9, 3:9. With utmosts respect to her... neither has Christianity achieved this distinction in any form or fashion as I have found in the literature. What I'm suggesting chair, is there are circumcised Shelanite impostors among your ranks... and, they instigated the crucifixion to shut Jesus up as He was unveiling their ancestral hypocrisy.
kayaker
they will be under the Law - Works - impossible to obey. see, God knew this and prepared a Way. Jesus Christ. The Truth The Way and The Life. they will not be saved ? i can't say. read The Bible, what does that say ? be honest, don't pick and choose the scriptures that needlessly perpetuate a covenant and promises that have changed. sorry, it's not me, it's God's Will and His Word.
Daniel1611
New member
I don't understand the question. Maybe change the punctuation or add some more words.
IMJerusha
New member
Thanking God the distinction I have received is the best...covered by the blood of Yeshua! :wave:
Thinking more and appreciating your post, chair...
Your mention the Jews are mostly descendants of Judah is appreciated. I proffer they are predominately the Shelanite descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife, contrary to Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3. Keeping Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV in mind for Israelites to not even marry the Canaanites, Moses continued, instructing the Israelites how to deal with the Canaanites, etc.:
Deuteronomy 7:4, 5, KJV "For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you (Israelites), and destroy thee suddenly. 5) But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire."
Moses established the Israelites as God's chosen in the next few verses, and Moses then reflected on his aforementioned instructions to the Israelites:
Deuteronomy 7:11, 12, KJV "Thou (Israelites) shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee (Israelites) this day, to do them."
Even a thousand years later, Ezra recognized the Israelites' violations of Moses' commandments, statutes, and judgments in Ezra 9:1, 2, 3, 7. What changed, chair? With sincere consideration of your post, I have a hard time understanding how an Israelite can surrender God's chosen Israelite identity to the ancestral ambiguity in the title, Jew. Please forgive me chair... but, I'm hearing the story of Esau all over this scenario.
Granted, Christians seldom follow the traditions of the patriarchs, but I not hearing those claiming ancestry to the patriarchs keeping Moses' 'commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments" given to their Israelite fathers and mothers. In fact... such trespass (per Ezra) sounds contrary to Exodus 20:12 KJV, one of the Ten Commandments.
Again, chair... do you consider the Canaanite Shelanite descendants of Judah to be Israelite, or Hebrew? Do you consider yourself a Jew first, and Israelite second? Being Israelite utterly trumps the title Jew, for eternity. For the record, chair... King David was a Pharzite Jew. And, when one explores the scripture with but a little faith... King David was an ancestral Israelite. Judah's daughter-in-law Tamar, maternal ancestress to David, was an Israelite priestess when associating Genesis 38:24 KJV with Leviticus 21:9 KJV (corrected from 20:10). Whoever wrote Leviticus (as in your proclaimed paternal ancestors) surely believed Tamar was a Priestess. In fact, associating Genesis 38:24 KJV with Leviticus 21:9 KJV (corrected from 20:10) sanctions the very high probability Tamar was a LEVITE Priestess, daughter of Levi! David was NOT a Jew, chair.
kayaker
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well, by nature that last statement may upset some and shock others. i guess we can all look up what you have looked up. is it all from the OT Bible ? - :sam:
You are making a whole series of assumptions and mistakes. I will try to starighten this out as best as I can:
1. You seem to think that "racial purity" is important. " a "Semite" is an ancestrally undiluted descendant of Shem, son of Noah, other than with a Gentile (Genesis 9:27, 10:2, 3, 4, 5). Otherwise, mixed progeny do not carry the ancestral title of the father". Life is not that simple. Even King David, who you keep mentioning, was of mixed heritage. Look up "Ruth".
2. There were no Israelites at the time of the Judah and Tamar story. The Sons of Israel were just an extended family at the time. Where do you think they got their wives from? Where was Tamar from, for that matter? You make her out to be an "Israelite Priestess", by somehow applying the rules of Leviticus (dating 500 years later) backwards in time. But - I really do not understand how you do this tirck, or why.
3. Modern Jews are simply the surviving Israelites. Mostly from the tribe of Judah. I do not see the difficulty here.
4. You assume, for reasons that are unclear, that modern Jews are "Shelanites". Why do you make that assumption? Why not the families of Peretz or Zerach?
5. You assume that there was something worng with the "Shelanites". They are mentioned in Chronicles, as just another clan of the tribe of Judah.
Chair
You are indeed patrick on the spot! Thanks again for your correction. I've had to make another correction that reveals is a very subtle distinction on a very key point:
"Whoever wrote Leviticus (as in your proclaimed paternal ancestors) surely believed Tamar was a Priestess. In fact, associating Genesis 38:24 KJV with Leviticus 21:9 KJV (corrected from 20:10) sanctions the very high probability Tamar was a LEVITE Priestess, daughter of Levi!"
I am not aware David was ever directly referred to as a Jew in the OT, or the NT for that matter. Christians ambiguously (through lack of a ancestral knowledge, respectfully) refer to Jesus as a Jew. Jesus was not just any ole Jew of some ambiguous ancestry... Jesus was a Pharzite Jew (Matthew 1:3, Luke 3:31, 32, 33). This may seem like splitting hairs, patrick jane... but, those who instigated the crucifixion were the Shelanite descendants of Judah, while Jesus and David were the descendants of Judah and Tamar via their eldest twin son, Pharez. Hence, David was not just any ole ancestrally ambiguous Jew following the traditions of the elders... David was a Pharzite Jew, as was Jesus, to be ancestrally explicit. To be more ancestrally precise even still, David and Jesus were ISRAELITES considering my correction above.
Of course, Judaism, playing smoke and mirror games, has recanted the significance of ancestry shifting from foot to foot appreciating chair's post... while Moses made ancestry of God's chosen irrefutable (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) as Ezra affirmed over a thousand years later in Ezra 9:1, 2, 3, 7... look a few verses further:
Ezra 9:11, 12, 13, 14, 15, KJV "Which thou hast commanded by thy servants the prophets, saying, The land, unto which ye go to possesses it (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2), is an unclean land with filthiness of the people of the lands, with their abomination, which have filled it from one end to another with their uncleanness. 12) Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons (Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV), nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever (Deuteronomy 25:5, 6). 13) And after all that is come upon us (Israelites) for our evil deed, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God (of Israel) hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, an dhast given us such deliverance as this (Ezra 9:8 KJV); 14) Should we again break thy commandments (ancestral ambiguity in, "Jew"), an djoin in affinity with the people of these abominations (Canaanite Shelanites)? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping? 15) O Lord God of Israel, thou art righteous: for we remain yet escaped, as it is this day: behold, we are before thee in our trespasses (Judah hooked with with a Canaanite = Shelanites): for we cannot stand before thee because of this."
David was not any ole Jew, and neither was Jesus... as you hear chair diluting out the ancestry of David with the story of Ruth, which I well anticipated, btw. I've gotta render unto Caesar... but, I'll be back to respond to chair's appreciated rebuttal.
kayaker
IMJerusha
New member
I am unaware of Scripture's confirmation of this. In Yeshua we have no differences and He is our distinctive trait.
CherubRam
New member
We should all get down on our knees and pray we do not get Jewed again.
The synagogue of Satan were and are the Hellenistic Jews who practice Mysticism, now called Kabbalah. They believe the New Covenant is for only the Gentiles and not them. In other words, keeping circumcision and the festivals with the old priesthood.
Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
The synagogue of Satan were and are the Hellenistic Jews who practice Mysticism, now called Kabbalah. They believe the New Covenant is for only the Gentiles and not them. In other words, keeping circumcision and the festivals with the old priesthood.
Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
yes. i wasn't trying to correct you, because i don't know enough about lineage. i was just saying we could look things up,i may do that somedy. i procrastinate. good points, but i can neither agree or disagree yet. i'm sure most , if not all, is true. i guess i asked a good question that helped you see something. accident. gotta go
atrol:
IMJerusha
New member
Thanks but I'll follow Yeshua and the Ruach if it's all the same to you rather than try to find people to rag on. I just don't get the point of that.
JosephR
New member
you have no idea what you type about..
Heb 8:8 is the ONLY new cov you will find...
and mark these words. when the world turned its back against the Father the Jews kept His Laws and ways.
and you dont know scrap about Kabbalah, or the seeking or way of God.... thats what is means......
CherubRam
New member
Heb 8:8. But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people ...
Is it true that Messianics keep covenant circumcision? Is it true they keep the festivals? As for Kabbalah, I do know what Mysticism is.
Acts 13:6
They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphos. There they met a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet named Bar-Jesus,
Acts 26:3
and especially so because you are well acquainted with all the Jewish customs and controversies. Therefore, I beg you to listen to me patiently.
Titus 1:14
and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth.
Jude 1:4
Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.
JosephR
New member
I know of alot worse then those keeping Gods days...You speak of a New Covenant for Christians,, please provide scripture.
and you havent a clue..just cause you say you do you show your hate and ignorance... does not mean you know the keys of Solomon,or the ways of Enoch.....