Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[Jacob]

The eternal spiritual kingdom, vs the temporal carnal Kingdom which is a shadow of the invisible played out in dramatic fashion in stories to deceive/hide and also teach/reveal, Matt 11:11 shows what Jesus was representing spiritual birth within man, his spiritual Mother depicted by Mary was a drama/symbol Galatians 4:26, which makes us like Isaac not born of the will of the flesh Galatians 4:28.

You think Abraham and Sarah were physical beings that lived in history, when its the teaching of those lives extroverted historically or introverted spiritually within our own experience that divides their meanings, 2Cor 3:6.

Not really. Just that the Bible should be read literally, as non-fiction and accurate historically. Vs. figuratively.

 

[KingdomRose]

No one can boast because all good works come from God. We cannot do anything good without God's help.

It is just simple fact and simple Christian principle.

That scripture is simply not understood by the "belief-only" crowd. Paul was emphasizing the limitations of the Law given to Moses. Strictly obeying the Law could not save anyone, even if it could be obeyed perfectly---which no one could do anyway. The Law was a "tutor" pointing forward to the Messiah---who would be the fulfillment of that Law. The Law itself could not save anyone.

So Paul spot-lighted Jesus, the Savior of Israel and everybody else. Jesus must be accepted as the fulfiller of the Law and the only way of salvation, because the works of the Law were not sufficient to save anyone. So, we have (1) Accept Jesus of Nazareth as the Savior (and not the Law), and then (2) be intent on following in his footsteps, showing good works to demonstrate one's faith in Jesus.

He wrote to the Romans: "[God] will pay back to each one according to his works: everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good." (Romans 2:6,7)

So we CAN do good works, but it is nothing to boast about, because we all need help from God. And we accept the fact that we cannot save ourselves aside from Jesus. Others in Paul's day had no such mind-set. They were proud and haughty and were wrongly self-assured that they could be saved by keeping the Law.

 

[KingdomRose]

There is no problem with the logic of saying a person doesn't know if they will be saved. After all, Jesus said, "He who endures to the end is the one that will be saved." (Matthew 24:13)

So, if we STAY on the narrow road leading to life, we will be saved. It's up to us, and each one of us hopes that we will indeed STAY with Jesus and Jehovah. If we focus on them, we will be OK and in good hands. No one can say NOW that he is saved. Even Paul didn't say that. He admonished all Christians to "keep on" and "work out your faith."

Jesus said, through John, that "the one who conquers and observes my deeds down to the end, will be given authority over the nations...just as I have received from my Father." (Revelation 2:26,27b)


So, Grosnick, you may think you are standing, but beware. You have to KEEP standing.

"Let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall." (I Corinthians 10:12)

 

[KingdomRose]

Aren't you a "Jehovah Witness? Meshak thinks you guys are godly. By the way, I didn't receive my Watchtower magazine last month?

I'm sure you'll have a chance to get one this month.:sheep:

 

[KingdomRose]

The Jehovah Witnesses are a cult. Be warned!

:rotfl: That's hysterical! A cult! You're calling Jesus' real Church a cult! Well, that's what the scriptures say that most people thought about the followers of Jesus back then: "Truly, as regards this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere." (Acts 28:22)

What is a "cult"? It is a group of people following a man who dominates them and tries to cut them off from family members, and usually takes over all their wealth, whatever it may be. None of that applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. And if you were truly informed, you would not say that.

:kookoo:

 

[Bright Raven]

:rotfl: That's hysterical! A cult! You're calling Jesus' real Church a cult! Well, that's what the scriptures say that most people thought about the followers of Jesus back then: "Truly, as regards this sect, we know that it is spoken against everywhere." (Acts 28:22)

What is a "cult"? It is a group of people following a man who dominates them and tries to cut them off from family members, and usually takes over all their wealth, whatever it may be. None of that applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. And if you were truly informed, you would not say that.

:kookoo:

Isn't that what you believe. Jesus isn't God but a god. Actually a man, not deity.

 

[Jacob]

There is no problem with the logic of saying a person doesn't know if they will be saved. After all, Jesus said, "He who endures to the end is the one that will be saved." (Matthew 24:13)

Do you believe that a person that is born again by the Spirit of God is saved?

Some believe if you are a born again Christian you have been saved, (you are being saved,) and you will be saved.

See Romans 8:9 NASB.

 

[KingdomRose]

Big Time. They deny the deity of Jesus.

Yes, just like Jesus himself did!

I see you haven't bothered to answer my questions to you.:think:

 

[KingdomRose]

Paul wanted his Gospel (that he received from the ascended Christ) to remain pure. Obviously, there are those who work to destroy the Gospel by adding false doctrine and misinterpretation of Scripture.

Ooo yes, as you should know. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes when Jesus comes. :crackup:

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes, just like Jesus himself did!

I see you haven't bothered to answer my questions to you.:think:

John 8:58 New International Version (NIV)

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 

[KingdomRose]

I forget where I cut and pasted this from, but it does show what they believe (and believe not) and credits the writing where the quote/summary came from.

1.There is one God in one person, Make Sure of All Things, p 188.
2.There is no Trinity, Let God be True, p. 100-101; Make Sure of All Things, p.386.
3.The Holy Spirit is a force, not alive, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, p.
406-407.
4.The Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, The Watchtower, June 1, 1952,
p. 24.
5.Jehovah's first creation was his 'only-begotten Son'. . . was used by Jehovah in
creating all other things", Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 390-391.
6.Jesus was Michael the archangel who became a man, The Watchtower, May 15,
1963, p. 307; The New World, 284.
7.Jesus was only a perfect man, not God in flesh, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
1985, p. 306.
8.Jesus did not rise from the dead in his physical body, Awake! July 22, 1973, p. 4.
9.Jesus was raised "not a human creature, but a spirit." Let God be True, p. 276.
10.Jesus was born again, The Watchtower, Nov. 15, 1954, p. 682.
11.Jesus did not die on a cross but on a stake, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985,
p. 89-90.
12.Jesus began his invisible rule over the earth in 1914, The Truth Shall Make You Free,
p. 300.
13.Jesus' ransom sacrifice did not include Adam, Let God be True, p. 119.
14.Their church is the self-proclaimed prophet of God, The Watchtower, April 1,
1972, p. 197.
15.They claim to be the only channel of God's truth, The Watchtower, Feb. 15,
1981, p. 19.
16.Only their church members will be saved, The Watchtower, Feb, 15, 1979, p. 30.
17.Good works are necessary for salvation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1,
p. 150, 152.
18.The soul ceases to exist after death, Let God be True, p. 59, 60, 67.
19.There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished, Let God be True, p. 79, 80.
20.Only 144,000 Jehovah's Witness go to heaven, Reasoning from the Scriptures,
1985, pp. 166-167, 361; Let God be True, p. 121.
21.Only the 144,000 Jehovah's Witness are born again. Reasoning from the
Scriptures, 1985, p. 76.; Watchtower 11/15/54, p. 681.
22.Only the 144,000 may take communion.
23.Blood transfusions are a sin, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 72-73.
24.The Cross is a pagan symbol and should not be used, Reasoning from the
Scriptures, 1985, p. 90-92.
25.Salvation is by faith and what you do, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 1, p.
150,152.
26.It is possible to lose your salvation, Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, p.
358-359.
27.The universe is billions of years old, Your will Be Done on Earth, p. 43.
28.Each of the 6 creative days of God in Genesis 1, was 7000 years long.
Therefore, Man was created toward the end of 42,000 years of earth's
preparation, Let God be True, p. 168.
29.They also refuse to vote, salute the flag, sing the "Star Spangled Banner," or
celebrate Christmas or birthdays. They are not allowed to serve in the armed
forces.
30.Satan was entrusted with the obligation and charged with the duty of
overseeing the creation of the earth, Children, p. 55.

Very interesting. All of those are true except #16 and #30.

Thank you for enunciating God's truth, in 28 out of 30.

 

[Bright Raven]

Very interesting. All of those are true except #16 and #30.

Thank you for enunciating God's truth, in 28 out of 30.

They are all from Watchtower publications. Straight from the pit.

 

[heir]

Very interesting. All of those are true except #16 and #30.

Thank you for enunciating God's truth, in 28 out of 30.

Very interesting. Thank you for showing us that you are spoiled (Colossians 2:8 KJV).

 

[Danoh]

KingdomRose, were you raised as a JW from childhood, or did you go from, say, the mainline Christianity that is out there, to JW?

If the latter, what did you believe about how salvation is attained before you became a JW?

Thanks, in advance.

 

[Zeke]

Not really. Just that the Bible should be read literally, as non-fiction and accurate historically. Vs. figuratively.

OK I disagree, see ya.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't think I am. Is that what you are saying?

Let me explain what I believe about animal sacrifice.

In Hebrews it appears that it has been done away with.

It had been done away with.

If you think of when Jesus died for us, reading the gospels and learning about his burial also and resurrection, with His death and resurrection or we might say after the resurrection or upon His death our sin debt was paid. Some say that this means there was no more need for animal sacrifice to take away sin.

Of course, there was no longer any need for animal sacrifices.

Did animal sacrifice (ever) take away sin?

The blood of animals atoned for the people's sins, because God said it did. It was what the people had to do. We must obey God no matter what He says.

When you consider that there still was animal sacrifice even after the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom, remember Paul and his vow (edit- see below) in Acts?, was it when Jesus died or rose from the dead that there was then no more animal sacrifice (some say God would no longer accept it) or was it when the temple was destroyed in AD 70?

There was no more acceptance of animal sacrifices when Jesus died. HOWEVER, there still was a temple, and there still were unbelieving Pharisees and teachers of the law that enforced the old law. The Jews were afraid of being thrown in prison and put to death if they did not obey the old law.

About Paul and the vow...Paul avoided prison and death by making that vow. Paul acted like a Jew to win over the Jews. The temple was still standing and the rules for it were still enforced.

And how do I know there will not be another temple? I don't know there will not be another temple. There very well may be. But I have to start at the beginning to research it. Ezekiel's temple is not the first or second temple as far as I know. That's where I am at with it right now.

It is not from God to build another temple. We are the temple.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Very interesting. Thank you for showing us that you are spoiled (Colossians 2:8 KJV).

KR is a full fledged Jehovah Witness. He/she isn't a "True Believer" but a member of a cult.

 

[Jacob]

It had been done away with.



Of course, there was no longer any need for animal sacrifices.



The blood of animals atoned for the people's sins, because God said it did. It was what the people had to do. We must obey God no matter what He says.



There was no more acceptance of animal sacrifices when Jesus died. HOWEVER, there still was a temple, and there still were unbelieving Pharisees and teachers of the law that enforced the old law. The Jews were afraid of being thrown in prison and put to death if they did not obey the old law.

About Paul and the vow...Paul avoided prison and death by making that vow. Paul acted like a Jew to win over the Jews.

It is not from God to build another temple. We are the temple.

I believe that Paul was not just acting like a Jew.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, just like Jesus himself did!

I see you haven't bothered to answer my questions to you.:think:

Jesus did no such thing.

God the Father came in the flesh as a Son.

God did not pretend to come as a man, he really came as a man.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe that Paul was not just acting like a Jew.

You are wrong. 1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews.

Paul NO LONGER taught circumcision and the sacrifice of animals, etc. So then, what do you think he was doing when making the vow?