Jesus taught existence after death
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First of all, learn how to properly use the quote function.
Except that's not what the verse says.
Like I said, you twist scripture.
HERE IS WHAT THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAYS (with context):
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: [JESUS]“Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.[/JESUS] - John 17:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John17:1-5&version=NKJV
The verse does NOT say that "only the Father is God." It says that "the Father is the only God."
The fact that you cant understand the difference speaks volumes about you as a person.
If the above is any indication of the "loopholes" you found, I'm not surprised you think you think you came out of darkness.
:mock: "Loopholes" my foot.
Except that's not what the verse says.
Like I said, you twist scripture.
HERE IS WHAT THE VERSE ACTUALLY SAYS (with context):
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: [JESUS]“Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.[/JESUS] - John 17:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John17:1-5&version=NKJV
The verse does NOT say that "only the Father is God." It says that "the Father is the only God."
The fact that you cant understand the difference speaks volumes about you as a person.
If the above is any indication of the "loopholes" you found, I'm not surprised you think you think you came out of darkness.
:mock: "Loopholes" my foot.
Yup...just like Eve in the garden ADDED to what Yah had instructed including “do not touch” when actually He did NOT say that...He only said “do not EAT”...
So she deceived herself and in the taking of the fruit she grew bold and ate...
And ever since man has added to the Word assumed too much and deceived himself and others...
It remains Yah’s Word > traditions of man
way 2 go
Well-known member
I am rejecting your conjecture as evidence
& your absence of evidence as evidence
because your conjecture is not evidence
and your absence of evidence is not evidence
:nono:
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
if Christ had not risen everyone would go to the fire.
:kookoo:
Zeke
Well-known member
You forgot about the sleeping giant in man though while consciously ignorant of that stowaway in this allegorical dream Galatians 4:1, Luke 17:20-21, 1 Corinthians 3:16, forsaking the inward mystery for dead history is a theological stumbling stone that can't divide the dead from the living 2 Corinthians 3:6.
Paul is clear we with Him clothed not naked spirits fluttering about...
answering specific questions with a silly emoji is what you are reduced to...
yup...Law still applies and yet some teach it is abolished....
Which is it abolished? or still applying?
to be consumed...not remain in a state of being consumed...they have perished...past tense final state...not perishing but perishED
is the conjecture of yours with its eternal fire of sodom...as if it is still burning today
Come again please?...
Zeke
Well-known member
God never did dwell in temples made by man Acts 17:24, that elephant sitting in mans theological class room is ignored mixing death with life, the spirit said let the dead bury the dead a state of ignorance not physical death of the soul's avatar/body, clinging to the allegorical stories as historical events when it's all about spiritual symbolism Galatians 4:24, dramatized portrayals of mans inner conscience Galatians 3:1-5, the paradox of being in Christ and being in us, Paul's question to the carnal minded Corinthians was didn't they know they were the temple of God's spirit 1 Corinthians 3:16, showing the literalism of scripture is an image to be left behind Hebrews 6:1-5, flesh level teachings Matthew 11:11, that veil the elephant, Colossians 1:27, Luke 17:21, the mind is the garden of Eden where the tree of life is not some geographic location in outer darkness in history or future the kingdom is always at hand and overlook by traditions of men Matthew 23:13.
Oh...ok...
For me it remains a stone you offer and I hunger for bread...
When He said “blessed are they that believe without seeing”...He didn't mean it actually didn't happen...it means they weren’t there to see it...
Word became flesh...not bread became flesh...nor (in your case) one idea became another...
way 2 go
Well-known member
says the guy that calls Jesus a liar
you claim Jesus lied
you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things. But now he is comforted and you are tormented.
both
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
yes , perished from the earth
nope He was telling a folk tale for a different reason than teaching on the afterlife...
However you would have Him lie as He did NOT say His real friend went to paradise and was resting on Abraham’s bosom...but said instead he was dead...
yes the folk tale has Abraham saying this but no where is it confirmed and what this folk tale has Abraham saying is EXACTLY contrary to what the gospel is...the gospel is One is raised from the dead BE CONVINCED
And this folk tale has Abraham saying “not even if one is raised would it convince”
How can it be abolished AND still applying...ALL have sinned...your teachings is contrary to sound doctrine...
ha...still having to add to the Word...the wages of sin is death...that is the wage...merely death...burning forever is contrary to sound doctrine
Zeke
Well-known member
Word/outward speech isn't the word nor the other senses of man, those fool man into judging by appearances, you missed my point.
Your point is...
Zeke
Well-known member
There is no death just ignorance of life, death is dead and never lived, arise from the dead letter, your sleep walking in Ephesians 5:14.
Pay no attention to Zeke. He's just a confused new-ager Urantia type.
Ignorance of life stemming from not having access to the tree...a gift which granted we may live and more abundantly...by Him IN HIM
way 2 go
Well-known member
you lie , God was in paradise that day.Originally Posted by cleftyLuk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
not even He was in paradise that day...
calling Jesus a liar because he did not say what you dictate he should have said
Joh 11:4 And hearing, Jesus said, This is not sickness to death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God be glorified by it.
Jesus told the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him,I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Jesus said Abraham said Luk 16:25
liar
you remove words from the word of God
'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house—
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
both
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good if a man uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous one, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
I am rejecting your conjecture as evidence
so He was on Abraham’s bosom? Nothing written on that...in fact nothing written about where He was during His death...oh wait...in the tomb...
nope...He said His friend was dead...not a lie...you would have his friend in flames or on Abraham’s bosom...
nope...just as when I say Santa comes down chimneys I tell the fictitious story truthfully...
many heard Moses and the prophets and rejected them...but HalleluYah were convinced when One rose from the dead...
Your rejecting Moses (the torah said nothing about life after death is why sadduccees) and the prophets (the dead know nothing) and are thus contrary to sound doctrine...
Yahushua said Lazarus was dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom...Paul said without His resurrection all those in Him would still be perishED...not be in fire perishING...or resting on Abraham’s bosom...
Jesus answered and said to them, [JESUS]“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”[/JESUS] Then some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.” But after that they dared not question Him anymore. - Luke 20:34-40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke20:34-40&version=NKJV
Did you notice what Jesus said here?
"[JESUS]nor can they die anymore[/JESUS]" (implying life after death, even before the resurrection)
"[JESUS]even Moses showed . . . that the dead ARE raised,[/JESUS]" (the dead are raised, present tense, at the time Jesus was speaking.)
"[JESUS]he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, . . . Isaac, and . . . Jacob.'[/JESUS]" (are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob gone? just a memory? no, they are not just a memory. They still exist, because...)
"[JESUS]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to Him.[/JESUS]" (meaning they are still alive, even though their bodies are dead, and not yet resurrected. Or do you assert that the resurrection has already happened?)jf