sadduccees were indeed wrong about no resurrection...but hell not being developed in the Torah is a starting point...sadduccees were wrong again here for thinking who the woman was married to after being dead and raised mattered in the after life...and NOT because she was just a spirit
Er, no, 'badly mistaken...' About what? One of us is reading scripture, the other isn't. Luke 20:36,38 Mark 12:27 Again, He said "badly" mistaken. You can argue with Him about that when you see Him.
scripture with a hellping of tradition pagan no less
Nope. You can argue this with Him as I said. I've simply quoted His words. You? You JUST need to read them. He said 'badly mistaken' to the Sadducees.
but you do as you judge one preist saying she is sleeping as being catholic teaching...it is not despite the fact He said His friend Lazarus was sleeping...then clarified him as dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom
Thanks for using scriptures, they are the only thing that matters, not inane posturing or asserting. We can but try to prove our points. Where in this passage does 'dead' mean nonexistent? I don't believe you can stretch it.
]praise among men is desired
Yeah, that's an 'ignorant cult' thing to say which mostly amounts to "I'm stupid so God favors me above you. I have to have some kind of delusional in with God because I didn't do well in school. Despite that being mostly my fault, I compensate by being delusional." Grades mean something and NOT some kind of retarded ploy to garner men's praise
lain: You are simply digging yourself in with special pleading. Mine is an observation, no proof, but as I said, Rutherford lied under oath with his hand on the Bible and Smith HAD to compensate for something, not having the intelligence to complete school. Try not to make your digs so transparent. They don't look like honest assessment, just ploys to somehow try to discredit your opponent. Such doesn't work.
so then..he was not teaching catholic doctrine
Again, let it go. If it isn't Catholic, it isn't Catholic, though it is obviously so for some Catholics or it wouldn't have been taught. This part of the conversation is going nowhere. Drop it as exhausted (my suggestion, it is fruitless). It doesn't matter 'who' believes in soul-sleep at such a point and we are getting lost in details. Just say "I don't believe it applies to Catholics" and we can move along. There is no reason to argue for the purpose of just winning an argument that doesn't matter much. I yet think it part of Catholic doctrine, no big deal.
Wuuuh? Wasn’t talking about the early protestant church...but first century church which rome called a superstitious jewish cult...possibly because they looked and behaved thusly...not running around about hell and such...
It didn't have the derogatory carried with it at that point. Accurate comparisons are important. No 'cult' today has the same.
lost track of which passage you are referring
lain:
you mean like something under the altar representing those deserving vindication?
No, metaphor means something 'is' the other thing. Thus, when the Lord Jesus Christ is called the "Lamb of God" it is literal, not that the Lord was a young sheep, but that He was a literal sacrifice to redeem man. With metaphors, it is imperative to know what 'is' exact. Metaphors are always literal.
]and before that it says he was in a vision...now the seals represent various time lines here and wiki has the fifth seal at:
Where? Revelation 4:1? Revelation 9:17?
Preterist view
This is the cry for vindication by the Christian martyrs who were persecuted by the Jews after Christ’s death and leading up to the fall of Jerusalem in the year 70.[17] Both Ernest Renan and Volkmar, modern rationalist preterists, marked the year 64 as a significant year for Christian martyrdom.[11] The name “Jerusalem” became synonymous with the persecution of the righteous. But God avenged the deaths of the righteous by allowing the Romans to conquer the “holy city” as retaliation for the Jews handing Jesus over to Pilate.[17]
Historicist view
This seal occurred during the rule of martyred Christians who were persecuted by Emperor Diocletian (284-303). This was the tenth period of the persecution of Christianity and the most severe, because of being on a “worldwide” scale. Then with Constantine’s rise to power, Christianity became legalized (313) and the church was thereby vindicated.[17]
Futurist view
This judgment encompasses Christians who will be martyred for their faith in Christ during the Great Tribulation by not bowing down to the Antichrist and by not submitting to the global economic system that forces all people on the earth to receive the mark of the beast. Their deaths place them in good company of the righteous throughout the ages.[17]
Idealist view
The fifth seal is a reminder that, though the Christ inaugurated the "Kingdom of God" through the preaching of the gospels, God’s people suffer during the tribulation that starts from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ. This is known as the end-time tribulation that stretches across world history. Thus the “kingdom of God” is in history, but “not yet” triumphant.[17]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_seals
So was John present literally through each and every one of the seals time frames?
Obvious. Obviously future not happened. Obviously in heaven too.
Those souls under the altar were from which time frame just the fifth?
'Presently' so it doesn't matter which view you adhere to, preterist, historical, or else "around the throne" debunks they were/are sleeping.
I mean if they are literal souls crying out not forgiveness but for vengeance...despite it being dust + spirit = soul
Says more about 'you' than the passage considered, doesn't it? It is 'my view' instead. That is never going to convince anyone, Clefty.
nope. Absent the body and to be with Him is NOT absent IS with Him
It is what it says so you are arguing with scripture, not me. It says it.
Still welcome.
Still waiting to see...hell means exactly that His sacrifice was not enough but that eternally burning bodies is necessary to satisfy
Again, metaphor doesn't work this way. It means something has exactly the same feature that another has. The Lord Jesus Christ and 'lamb' both mean sacrifice, not fleece. If you miss the exact comparison, you are misreading and misunderstanding language and scripture.
Even Satan believes He is the Son...and?
You are supporting what I said, not detracting from it.
Genesis 3:22-24 Romans 5:12; 6:23
