Jesus SEPARATE from Jehovah; calls Jehovah "my God."

Status
Not open for further replies.

drbrumley

Well-known member
Sorry my sentence was incomplete.

YHWH sent the Spirit to raise Jesus.

Ok, but that is not what Jesus said...

But the scriptures do not stop there at answering the question. If you go back to John 2:19-21, Jesus Christ says:


19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21But He was speaking of the temple of His body.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Ok, but that is not what Jesus said...

But the scriptures do not stop there at answering the question. If you go back to John 2:19-21, Jesus Christ says:


19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
20 Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”
21But He was speaking of the temple of His body.


Jesus is talking about His Church.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member

I've always wondered about something, maybe you can help me out here..

1) In Hebrews 1:6 it says
6And again, when he brought in the first begotten into the world, he said, And let all the angels of God worship him.

So here we have God the Father bringing in the first begotten who is identified as the Son; who is in fact Jesus. What puzzled me at the time, since I believed like you, was why did God tell HIS angels to worship a created being? Maybe you can answer that for me. But that's not all. Let's go back in time from the Book of Hebrews and walk with Jesus shall we...to the Book of Luke. Chapter 4, verses 6-8

6*And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7*If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8*And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this causes in interesting dilemma doesn't it? On one hand, God speaking, tells His angels to worship Jesus. On the other hand, Jesus says Only God shall you worship. Perplexing. Doesn't make sense. Until you take into account Hebrewes 1:4,5

4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Wow, God said to the son, YOUR throne, O'God, is for ever and ever. And there is no getting around it. The writer of the Hebrews used the same word for God in both uses in this one verse. It in no way shape or form mean BIG GOD talking to Little God.

And a great day to you ma'am!
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
I've always wondered about something, maybe you can help me out here..

1) In Hebrews 1:6 it says

So here we have God the Father bringing in the first begotten who is identified as the Son; who is in fact Jesus. What puzzled me at the time, since I believed like you, was why did God tell HIS angels to worship a created being? Maybe you can answer that for me. But that's not all. Let's go back in time from the Book of Hebrews and walk with Jesus shall we...to the Book of Luke. Chapter 4, verses 6-8



Now this causes in interesting dilemma doesn't it? On one hand, God speaking, tells His angels to worship Jesus. On the other hand, Jesus says Only God shall you worship. Perplexing. Doesn't make sense. Until you take into account Hebrewes 1:4,5



Well, what have we there. Jesus was and is better than the angels. Wait, I thought he was an angel before being born. Well obviously that's not accurate. Because this is what changed my view. God showed Himself to me thru the scriptures as He is right now to you. Because God the Father said this...Hebrews 1:8



Wow, God said to the son, YOUR throne, O'God, is for ever and ever. And there is no getting around it. The writer of the Hebrews used the same word for God in both uses in this one verse. It in no way shape or form mean BIG GOD talking to Little God.

And a great day to you ma'am!


I agree, these are puzzling for me too but what Jesus told His followers are not the same thing.

That's why I concentrate on what Jesus told His followers in the gospels.

thanks.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Here you go db:

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""

I have many more too.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
The Son ever subordinate to the Father....................

The Son ever subordinate to the Father....................

Greetings my non-trin friends...

I have always been fascinated by the resurrection. So the question becomes, who raised Jesus from the dead? Well, just so happens Luke tells us in the Book of Acts 3:14,15.



But it gets better. The Apostle Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10



So we here have identified God the Father as the one who raised Jesus. I would hope we all can agree with this scripture. We wouldn't want it any clearer than that.

Now that is where our agreement ends. Hopefully after this discussion we can agree on much more than this.

Because from here on out, is where our study begins. Who raised Jesus from the Dead? An Important Question.

So, we have discovered God the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

But the scriptures do not stop there at answering the question. If you go back to John 2:19-21, Jesus Christ says:



So here we find Jesus says He will raise Himself from the dead. Is this not correct? I am reading this right, right?

And if this is true, we find that God the Father raised Jesus from the dead (Acts 3:15), Jesus raising Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21 and now this if as we needed anymore proof at who raised Jesus. Paul in Romans 8:11 tells us:



Now the Sprit raised Jesus from the Dead. Interesting. What's up with that?

So according to the scripture I provided you fine folks, who raised Jesus from the Dead?

Perhaps, all three? The Trinity.....

One can 'assume' a Trinitarian context for all this, but the fact still remains relationally speaking that God the Father by his infinite Spirit raised up Jesus, even though John's gospel has Jesus himself saying he raised himself, because Jesus still claims the Father gave him the power to raise himself up, so its all due to God's Spirit-power anyways, for all comes from God the Father who is the source and progenitor of all things and beings. The Son ever remains subordinate to the Father, as well as all sons of God. The Universal Father has primacy over all other sentient beings, whether in the divine hierarchy or lower orders of mortal man, because the Father is before all, being the originator of all. This must be so as long as we employ the familial language of 'father' and 'son', since our language defines and qualifies our knowledge of relation(s). God's infinite Spirit-power, holy breath, divine energy....is the source of Jesus power (ours as well), it is God's Spirit-anointing upon and within Jesus that gives him his messianic 'authority', in the divine hierarchy, the processional order. Furthermore, the gospel message of Paul still retains the pertinent language of relational hierarchy, of the Son's subordinance to the Father, and this subordination is eternal. - just like all other beings are subordinate to the higher power(s) that be.

So no, the verses above together compounded do not necessarily have to infer or refer within a Trinitarian context, although one can contextualize it so. What remains by way of direct reference, is that God raised up Jesus from the dead (this remains at the heart of the gospel message), and there is no other power but 'God' that could do so, that is....'God' the invisible infinite Spirit-power, the divine life-energy of the Father-GOD. - it is only this living universal omnipresent incorporeal Spirit-energy and Living Consciousness that is 'God'....that gives life and breath to all, that raises from the dead, that brings all cycles of life, death, rebirth into being. - it in this context that we understand that the Living Father is the sole power behind all creation, all generations, all resurrections.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Here you go db:

John 20:17
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.""

I have many more too.

Bring em all.....I will agree with every single one of them. Jesus was subordinate to the Father....there is not a Trinitarian that won't agree to that. We don't dismiss the verses. On the other hand, you reject the verses that say otherwise.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Bring em all.....I will agree with every single one of them. Jesus was subordinate to the Father....there is not a Trinitarian that won't agree to that. We don't dismiss the verses. On the other hand, you reject the verses that say otherwise.

That verse clearly deny your trinity.

There is no sense bring all others when you cannot debunk one verse. This is clear Jesus' word.

You don't have any Jesus' word of trinity.
All you have is because He said "I am." and He is not saying He is God.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
That verse clearly deny your trinity.

Actually it doesn't....

Jesus wasn't a created being as you maintain. God emptied Himself to become a man so He can take our place at the cross. It was the only thing He could do so satisfy the penalty of sin. Lambs and Goats couldn't do it.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
Actually it doesn't....

Jesus wasn't a created being as you maintain. God emptied Himself to become a man so He can take our place at the cross. It was the only thing He could do so satisfy the penalty of sin. Lambs and Goats couldn't do it.

So you deny what He said in that verse I showed you?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top