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One minute she will tell you that you must do ALL that Jesus said, the next minute she realizes that some things were directed at only some people or a person.
She goes back and forth like a wave on the ocean.
Jesus, Paul and the Law
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
She goes back and forth like a wave on the ocean.
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Jesus said that to a rich man who loved his money more than Jesus.
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We have to repent of those sins when we want to be saved.
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It seems some people here don't know that there were people who obeyed the law blamelessly.
Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly
Luke 1:6 Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly
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Are you claiming that they were sinless then?
There are two kinds of righteousness. There is the righteousness of man and there is the righteousness of God. The Pharisees had the righteousness of man. They thought that they had the righteousness of God, but they didn't understand what the righteousness of God was, kind of like you.
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God" Romans 10:3.
This is exactly where you are at. You think that you have the righteousness of God, but what you really have is the righteousness of man. If you had the righteousness of God you would not be here on this earth, you would be in heaven with Christ.
Gentiles who never knew God.
Gentiles who never knew God.
hello.
I do not believe that the Gentiles were excluded as a group from salvation and denied the opportunity to live righteous lives in honor, respect, and obedience to God and His laws.
We know that there were Gentiles in various places throughout the Old Testament who were Godly and just characters. Such as various gentile kings and even gentiles who assisted the Jews and spoke of living for God and doing the right thing.
The Egyptians were given full opportunity to obey and know God.
Balaam was believed to be a gentile prophet but He evenntually turned against the god of Israel
Caleb also in Num 32:12 Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite had wholly completly followed the LORD. The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19)
Rahab (Joshua 2): The Canaanite prostitute
Also here in Jos 9:7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a league with you?
Jos 8 And they said unto Joshua, We are thy servants. And Joshua said unto them, Who are ye? and from whence come ye?
Jos9 And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,
Also Othniel (Judg 3:9): Othniel was Caleb’s brother and also a Canaanite - - Jdg 3:9 And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.
Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites (Gen 15:19)
Ruth the Moabite: was in the geneology of Jesus - Ruth the Moabite - who served God
Obed-Edom (2 Samuel 6): The Ark of the Covenant was kept safe and stored on His own property for a period of time.
The man named Naaman in - 2 Kings 5 The Aramean commander went to Elisha for healing
ALSO - The People of Nineveh in Jonah 3........ The people of Nineveh believed God at the preaching of Jonah.
Not many Gentiles were mentioned as serving and believing in God, however, the option was there and there were gentiles who did serve God in the Old Testament. Also there were many Gentiles around other various parts of the world who were Godly people - though the BIble does not record their location.
The Gentiles had full opportunity to serve God and to obey Him - However The Hebrew people were choosen by God with the duty, obligation, responsibility and task of obeying and preserving His word and living clean, holy and Godly lives. Noah was not a Hebrew / Jew and He preached to everyone around Him. The BIble describes Him a preacher. We see in the Old Testament that God is giving Gentiles a chance to live for Him and to do right.
Gentiles who never knew God.
hello.
I do not believe that the Gentiles were excluded as a group from salvation and denied the opportunity to live righteous lives in honor, respect, and obedience to God and His laws.
We know that there were Gentiles in various places throughout the Old Testament who were Godly and just characters. Such as various gentile kings and even gentiles who assisted the Jews and spoke of living for God and doing the right thing.
The Egyptians were given full opportunity to obey and know God.
Balaam was believed to be a gentile prophet but He evenntually turned against the god of Israel
Caleb also in Num 32:12 Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite had wholly completly followed the LORD. The great hero of Judah was a Kenizzite, one of the Canaanite tribes (Gen 15:19)
Rahab (Joshua 2): The Canaanite prostitute
Also here in Jos 9:7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a league with you?
Jos 8 And they said unto Joshua, We are thy servants. And Joshua said unto them, Who are ye? and from whence come ye?
Jos9 And they said unto him, From a very far country thy servants are come because of the name of the LORD thy God: for we have heard the fame of him, and all that he did in Egypt,
Also Othniel (Judg 3:9): Othniel was Caleb’s brother and also a Canaanite - - Jdg 3:9 And when the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, the LORD raised up a deliverer to the children of Israel, who delivered them, even Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother.
Jael (Judges 4-5): The killer of Sisera was a Kenite, a tribe of Canaanites (Gen 15:19)
Ruth the Moabite: was in the geneology of Jesus - Ruth the Moabite - who served God
Obed-Edom (2 Samuel 6): The Ark of the Covenant was kept safe and stored on His own property for a period of time.
The man named Naaman in - 2 Kings 5 The Aramean commander went to Elisha for healing
ALSO - The People of Nineveh in Jonah 3........ The people of Nineveh believed God at the preaching of Jonah.
Not many Gentiles were mentioned as serving and believing in God, however, the option was there and there were gentiles who did serve God in the Old Testament. Also there were many Gentiles around other various parts of the world who were Godly people - though the BIble does not record their location.
The Gentiles had full opportunity to serve God and to obey Him - However The Hebrew people were choosen by God with the duty, obligation, responsibility and task of obeying and preserving His word and living clean, holy and Godly lives. Noah was not a Hebrew / Jew and He preached to everyone around Him. The BIble describes Him a preacher. We see in the Old Testament that God is giving Gentiles a chance to live for Him and to do right.
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Who said otherwise?
I do know that St Peter was involved with Jews who would not even eat with Gentile believers and St Paul rebuked Him to His face. There were not that many gentiles mentioned in the Old Testament who were followers of the God Of Abraham. I was just looking in the BIble and studying the situation.
That is found in Galatians 2:11-14.
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Paul rebuked Peter because Peter, once again, acted out of fear which made him out of line with the truth.
Peter, as before when he denied Jesus three times, was afraid of what the Jews would do to him physically for knowing Jesus.
Peter was afraid again for the gospel, which Paul also taught...because the Jews would have Peter hurt for following Jesus, the Way.
There is only one gospel, and it is the same gospel that Paul taught, and Jesus himself, of course.
Repent of sins or perish.
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The Gentiles were excluded and without God because they would not enter into the Covenant with God...the Covenant where circumcision was she sign and seal.
See there were Jews who would obey and do right, and they also did the ceremonial/purification works, which circumcision was the sign; however, God did not like it that there were Jews who would sin, give a sin offering, as was commanded in the purification/ceremonial works, but they not really be sorry for their sins.
God said that He would one day make a new covenant that would be based on faith alone and not the ceremonial works of the law.
Being in good standing with God has ALWAYS been about doing right and when hearing about God---believing and having faith in God.
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You are badly mistaken not knowing God or the scriptures.
Jesus said the Pharisees did not obey.
You need to think about this more and repent.
You are exactly like the Pharisees who would not repent of their sins.
You judge me what you are.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)
Did you read that? John's baptism was about REPENTING OF SINS.
The Pharisees did NOT repent.
YOU teach we do not have to repent of our sins.
I preach we do have to repent of our sins.
You deny the truth.
Luke 12:8 I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. 9 But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.
Jesus didn't like it that there were leaders and Pharisees who believed in him in secret.
John 3:1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”
Matthew 23:3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
You didn't answer my question. Have you sold all that you have and given it to the poor? If you haven't then you are in the same boat as the rich young ruler.
"If you will be perfect, go and sell all that you have and give it to the poor and you will have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me" Matthew 19:21.
You claim to follow the commandments, but you don't. Just like the Pharisees you make yourself a hypocrite.
Of course, it is true that Gods covenant with The Jews included the many laws that were given to them in order to maintain their health in a unhealthy and diseased ridden and dangerous environment that surrounded them.
God had always intended all people of all races among the earth to follow these rules that prevented mankind from corrupting themselves. This is exactly why God had destroyed the entire human race and all breathing life forms { outside the Ark } - in the worldwide flood. We see in the Bible that all of the earth had become corrupted and only one single man { Noah } was righteous and living according to Gods standards.
In Gen 9:11 -God said to Noah - And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there anymore be a flood to destroy the earth.
God had planned to establish His covenant with Adam and Eve when He commanded them to obey His Laws. Cain and Able also were sacrificing to God under a covenant and Cain refused to accept Gods sacrificial standards and disobeyed God and offered the fruits of His labors from the field - instead of offering the standards of the covenant that God required = the firstlings of his flock. We find from Adam and Eve – Cain and Abel and to Noah and to His seed there was a COVENANT established - as we see here in - = Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you.
All Gentiles of all of the seed of Noah are under Gods covenant plan. Noah had three sons and they were to follow God’s covenant.
As Gen 9:12 tells us that this covenant is with you * { Noah } never-endingetual { never-ending } generations:
And we see again here in Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Also we see the Hebrews people are using the word “ COVENANT “ when speaking to the friendly gentile neighbors - saying - Jos 9: We { Jews } have come from a far country: now therefore make ye a covenant with us. 7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a covenant with you? Gods covenant with the Hebrews is explained here in = Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles. And it was to separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness. Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.
Therefore we know that God commanded in multiple times in the Old Testament that the Jews themselves were not to make a covenant with the Gentiles that refused to serve God.
However – God has always attempted to make a covenant with all of the man throughout all of time and even a covenant to the Gentiles. However the Bible does not record a large number of Gentiles who were following Gods covenant. I listed a handful of Gentiles in my previous post who were taken in by the Jews and became a part of the Jewish nation. Many, many, many women who were victims of war form the gentile races around the Jews also became grafted into the Hebrew race and they and their children born from Hebrew men marrying gentile women also became a part of Gods HEBREW covenant.
God did not limit the covenant to strictly Jews – Even Jacobs sons were trying to get a whole city of gentile men to become circumcised. I simply find nothing in the Bible that supports the idea that the Hebrew race alone is given a covenant alone - before that Yahoshua died on the cross.
• We even have gentiles protecting, storing and preserving the Ark of the covenant in their own home and keeping the Ark safe and protecting it. There were Gentiles in the Old Testament that even vowed to follow, serve and obey God and honor God. Just because most of the Gentiles in the Old Testament living near and around the Jews were disobedient and behaved evilly and wickedly – this does not mean that God had not established a previous expectation, covenant and law with the Gentiles all the way back to Noah’s sons and even to Cain and Able and Adam and Eve.
It was because Abraham followed God and believed with all of His heart – that God established an everlasting covenant with Him and His wife who was His very own sister. Producing Isaac who also married His own cousins and an additional two other gentile wives.
In the end – God will hold all of mankind responsible for breaking His covenant on the day of Judgment. The Covenant for the Jews was to preserve His word, separate themselves from the wickedness and filth and destructive behaviors of those around them in order to ensure that the Hebrew race would endure to the end of the world.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
1Ch_16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psa_105:8 He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
God Covenant has never changed - the circumcision was to maintain the health of the Hebrew race in a world that surrounded them with diseases, viruses, sicknesses, plagues and sicknesses.
• Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. ...
• Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. ...
• Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. ...
• Prevention of penile problems. ...
• Decreased risk of penile cancer.
• "Uncircumcised men’s get dirt trapped in their flaps and can also acquire a bad sent in their penis and if not cleaned daily they stand a great chance of contracting infections.
• Circumcision gave the Hebrew men an edge on the surrounding nations that refused to keep clean. Hebrew men could work longer hours in the fields and maintain their posts on the battlefields.
Gentiles have been shown to have been given a covenant. God offered and expected and judged the gentiles all through history by the standards of the same type of covenant as we see how Noah was following Gods standards and Noah was a Gentile preacher - preaching to the Gentiles around Him about Gods covenant and expectations.
2Pe_2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Even Balaam was a Gentile. Who was expected to follow God.
Please remember that when conversing with Trinitarians - that taking a single mental step is not completing a long journey.. Trinity faith - creates one step theologists and creedists.
The words trinity and faith alone are never found in the original manuscripts.
God had always intended all people of all races among the earth to follow these rules that prevented mankind from corrupting themselves. This is exactly why God had destroyed the entire human race and all breathing life forms { outside the Ark } - in the worldwide flood. We see in the Bible that all of the earth had become corrupted and only one single man { Noah } was righteous and living according to Gods standards.
In Gen 9:11 -God said to Noah - And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there anymore be a flood to destroy the earth.
God had planned to establish His covenant with Adam and Eve when He commanded them to obey His Laws. Cain and Able also were sacrificing to God under a covenant and Cain refused to accept Gods sacrificial standards and disobeyed God and offered the fruits of His labors from the field - instead of offering the standards of the covenant that God required = the firstlings of his flock. We find from Adam and Eve – Cain and Abel and to Noah and to His seed there was a COVENANT established - as we see here in - = Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you.
All Gentiles of all of the seed of Noah are under Gods covenant plan. Noah had three sons and they were to follow God’s covenant.
As Gen 9:12 tells us that this covenant is with you * { Noah } never-endingetual { never-ending } generations:
And we see again here in Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Also we see the Hebrews people are using the word “ COVENANT “ when speaking to the friendly gentile neighbors - saying - Jos 9: We { Jews } have come from a far country: now therefore make ye a covenant with us. 7 And the men of Israel said unto the Hivites, Peradventure ye dwell among us; and how shall we make a covenant with you? Gods covenant with the Hebrews is explained here in = Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles. And it was to separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness. Lev 15:31 Thus shall ye separate the children of Israel from their uncleanness; that they die not in their uncleanness when they defile my tabernacle that is among them.
Therefore we know that God commanded in multiple times in the Old Testament that the Jews themselves were not to make a covenant with the Gentiles that refused to serve God.
However – God has always attempted to make a covenant with all of the man throughout all of time and even a covenant to the Gentiles. However the Bible does not record a large number of Gentiles who were following Gods covenant. I listed a handful of Gentiles in my previous post who were taken in by the Jews and became a part of the Jewish nation. Many, many, many women who were victims of war form the gentile races around the Jews also became grafted into the Hebrew race and they and their children born from Hebrew men marrying gentile women also became a part of Gods HEBREW covenant.
God did not limit the covenant to strictly Jews – Even Jacobs sons were trying to get a whole city of gentile men to become circumcised. I simply find nothing in the Bible that supports the idea that the Hebrew race alone is given a covenant alone - before that Yahoshua died on the cross.
• We even have gentiles protecting, storing and preserving the Ark of the covenant in their own home and keeping the Ark safe and protecting it. There were Gentiles in the Old Testament that even vowed to follow, serve and obey God and honor God. Just because most of the Gentiles in the Old Testament living near and around the Jews were disobedient and behaved evilly and wickedly – this does not mean that God had not established a previous expectation, covenant and law with the Gentiles all the way back to Noah’s sons and even to Cain and Able and Adam and Eve.
It was because Abraham followed God and believed with all of His heart – that God established an everlasting covenant with Him and His wife who was His very own sister. Producing Isaac who also married His own cousins and an additional two other gentile wives.
In the end – God will hold all of mankind responsible for breaking His covenant on the day of Judgment. The Covenant for the Jews was to preserve His word, separate themselves from the wickedness and filth and destructive behaviors of those around them in order to ensure that the Hebrew race would endure to the end of the world.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
1Ch_16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Psa_105:8 He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
God Covenant has never changed - the circumcision was to maintain the health of the Hebrew race in a world that surrounded them with diseases, viruses, sicknesses, plagues and sicknesses.
• Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it simpler to wash the penis. ...
• Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. ...
• Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections. ...
• Prevention of penile problems. ...
• Decreased risk of penile cancer.
• "Uncircumcised men’s get dirt trapped in their flaps and can also acquire a bad sent in their penis and if not cleaned daily they stand a great chance of contracting infections.
• Circumcision gave the Hebrew men an edge on the surrounding nations that refused to keep clean. Hebrew men could work longer hours in the fields and maintain their posts on the battlefields.
Gentiles have been shown to have been given a covenant. God offered and expected and judged the gentiles all through history by the standards of the same type of covenant as we see how Noah was following Gods standards and Noah was a Gentile preacher - preaching to the Gentiles around Him about Gods covenant and expectations.
2Pe_2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
Even Balaam was a Gentile. Who was expected to follow God.
Please remember that when conversing with Trinitarians - that taking a single mental step is not completing a long journey.. Trinity faith - creates one step theologists and creedists.
The words trinity and faith alone are never found in the original manuscripts.
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Oh the wonders of fallacious logic.
The WORD does not need to be there as long as the IDEA it represents is in the WORDS that are used.
John 1:1 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
It's so clear and simple that even child can understand it.
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Jesus doesn't tell EVERYONE to do that.
You don't have understanding because you didn't even do the first thing that Jesus says to do to get saved.
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No longer be as a child.
Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.
Think about it more...who but the devil is crafty enough to get people to believe that 'NOT' obeying is the key to salvation.
Because Jesus is in heaven my salvation is secure. Not sure about you.