Jesus is God

[freelight]

A Urantia Book perspective........

A Urantia Book perspective........

:darwinsm: Now at least my God has given me "power, and love, and self-control." Not a Spirit of Stupidity.

Note earlier BR, how I said a category of Jesus being both 'God' and 'Man' would have been appropriate, since traditional-orthodox theology assumes such. Sort of a divine/human con-fusion. I would have voted for 'both God and Man'.....as well as a host of Trinitarians here - where we differ might be in the mode/means and synergy of those natures,.....the same boggle-game theologians went thru for centuries, and to this day.

Now concerning the Urantia Papers teaching about Jesus being a Creator Son, and one among many other Creator Sons who are the offspring of the Universal Father,...this in no way diminishes or takes away from Jesus relationship to this world as its Creator, Savior and Lord...it just expands one's vision and cosmology to include a greater universal context (in universal/cosmic hierarchy), from the perspective of the group of celestials who indited the papers.

As shared before, the Christology emphasizes that this Creator-Son did 'bestow' himself, and the 'incarnation' itself is a divine mystery,...for this divine Son takes upon himself the human nature that he is born with, assuming the personality-attributes and potentials of that humanity (combined with the divinity of his higher nature). Hence the papers portray Jesus in a dual mode and title-ship.....as both the 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God'. This presents a somewhat peculiar insight into Jesus, which does agree in some aspects with traditional-orthodox theology, but also differs in certain respects as well. In any case, we've probably covered this in the UB thread, and we may expound on this more there.

~*~*~

Also note that Caino in this thread votes in the 'affirmative' that 'Jesus is God',......and from a UB perspective that is an acceptable statement....since Jesus as a Creator-Son is in fact the closest approximation of being 'God' to us, as our Creator, Savior and Lord, even though he is not the Universal Father, who is the First Source and Center of all that exists, the Father of all.

In emenational-extension and divine hierarchy....it is our Creator-Son who is most intimate with us, who has bestowed himself upon this world (he could have chosen other worlds of his making to incarnate,...but chose us, so that makes Earth (Urantia) kinda special ) to reveal 'God' to us, and proclaim the goodness of the kingdom (of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man).

There is more in the papers teaching about 'The Paradise Trinity' (comprising the Universal Father, Eternal Son & Infinite Spirit). An important item to recognize that differs from the traditional-orthodox Christian concept of the 'Trinity' is that Jesus is a Creator-Son, who is the offspring of The Universal Father and the Eternal Son of the Paradise Trinity, so he is NOT the Eternal Son who is a member of the Paradise Trinity, but their offspring. This is important to note,....since the papers claim that traditional-orthodox theology has mistakenly assumed Jesus is the Eternal Son in the Trinity, when he is not.

So,...the Paradise Trinity (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) is eternal, infinite, without beginning or end, as far as that original Trinity goes, but the Creator-Sons are the offspring of that Trinity,....so Jesus is NOT a part of that Original Trinity, but is a high and divine Creator-Son, none-the-less....and is the express-image, likeness, representation of 'Deity' to us, even with the new infusion/marriage of his divine and human nature that took place during his incarnation, all thru the resurrection & ascension, and however he is today in his present constitution.

Just thought to expand on this some more,....but will continue this in the UB thread, for those interested in a UB perspective, if you wish, respectfully.




pj

 

[Bright Raven]

Note earlier BR, how I said a category of Jesus being both 'God' and 'Man' would have been appropriate, since traditional-orthodox theology assumes such. Sort of a divine/human con-fusion. I would have voted for 'both God and Man'.....as well as a host of Trinitarians here - where we differ might be in the mode/means and synergy of those natures,.....the same boggle-game theologians went thru for centuries, and to this day.

Now concerning the Urantia Papers teaching about Jesus being a Creator Son, and one among many other Creator Sons who are the offspring of the Universal Father,...this in no way diminishes or takes away from Jesus relationship to this world as its Creator, Savior and Lord...it just expands one's vision and cosmology to include a greater universal context (in universal/cosmic hierarchy), from the perspective of the group of celestials who indited the papers.

As shared before, the Christology emphasizes that this Creator-Son did 'bestow' himself, and the 'incarnation' itself is a divine mystery,...for this divine Son takes upon himself the human nature that he is born with, assuming the personality-attributes and potentials of that humanity (combined with the divinity of his higher nature). Hence the papers portray Jesus in a dual mode and title-ship.....as both the 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God'. This presents a somewhat peculiar insight into Jesus, which does agree in some aspects with traditional-orthodox theology, but also differs in certain respects as well. In any case, we've probably covered this in the UB thread, and we may expound on this more there.

~*~*~

Also note that Caino in this thread votes in the 'affirmative' that 'Jesus is God',......and from a UB perspective that is an acceptable statement....since Jesus as a Creator-Son is in fact the closest approximation of being 'God' to us, as our Creator, Savior and Lord, even though he is not the Universal Father, who is the First Source and Center of all that exists, the Father of all.

In emenational-extension and divine hierarchy....it is our Creator-Son who is most intimate with us, who has bestowed himself upon this world (he could have chosen other worlds of his making to incarnate,...but chose us, so that makes Earth (Urantia) kinda special ) to reveal 'God' to us, and proclaim the goodness of the kingdom (of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man).

There is more in the papers teaching about 'The Paradise Trinity' (comprising the Universal Father, Eternal Son & Infinite Spirit). An important item to recognize that differs from the traditional-orthodox Christian concept of the 'Trinity' is that Jesus is a Creator-Son, who is the offspring of The Universal Father and the Eternal Son of the Paradise Trinity, so he is NOT the Eternal Son who is a member of the Paradise Trinity, but their offspring. This is important to note,....since the papers claim that traditional-orthodox theology has mistakenly assumed Jesus is the Eternal Son in the Trinity, when he is not.

So,...the Paradise Trinity (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) is eternal, infinite, without beginning or end, as far as that original Trinity goes, but the Creator-Sons are the offspring of that Trinity,....so Jesus is NOT a part of that Original Trinity, but is a high and divine Creator-Son, none-the-less....and is the express-image, likeness, representation of 'Deity' to us, even with the new infusion/marriage of his divine and human nature that took place during his incarnation, all thru the resurrection & ascension, and however he is today in his present constitution.

Just thought to expand on this some more,....but will continue this in the UB thread, for those interested in a UB perspective, if you wish, respectfully.




pj

But how many do you believe in?

 

[freelight]

relational knowledge...........its all relative....

relational knowledge...........its all relative....

But how many do you believe in?

Thanks BR, if you did read my post illuminating on things from a UB perspective, and how it relates to more traditional/orthodox Christian teachings.

To your question......I don't know. 'Holds up the agnostic flag' - Adding to my former discourse....it is possible (could be 'probable' as well) that what is shared by the revelators of those papers...is 'true',....but we only have our reason, logic and intelligence to use to consider if such propositions are true, possible or probable. No matter how many Creator-Sons might exist...only Jesus is involved with us as our Creator, Savior, Lord. So....it is only our own Creator-Son that we have relationship with, who reveals to us The Father. - all other information given in the papers are just a greater cosmological over-view or topography of the cosmos, expanding our comprehension of the whole, and the potentials existing therein.

If Jesus is the way, truth and life, because he reveals 'God' to us...and is 'God' to us....then its most logical to accept him in that light, and then go on to prove if this is in fact true, and how it is true to us. In the final analysis or proving...its our own personal religious experience that verifies or confirms anything, but we must be open to learn more, or be corrected if needs be. The UB certainly proclaims Jesus as our Creator-Son, Savior, Lord...because this is what he is relationally to us. This is also accepted as true by traditional-orthodox Christianity as well.



pj

 

[daqq]

Yes, and Peter and Paul both affirm this in their preaching of the gospel.

1 Peter 5:10 KJV

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while , make you perfect , stablish , strengthen , settle you.


1 Peter 5:9 KJV

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.


1 Corinthians 3:15 KJV

15 If any man's work shall be burned , he shall suffer loss : but he himself shall be saved ; yet so as by fire.

No more a prophet am I . . .
But a tiller of the soil am I . . .
For the Son of man purchased me from my youth!

1 Corinthians 9:10 KJV

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written : that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Yes, no doubt when Paul says this:

Galatians 6:14-17
14. But Elohim forbid that I should glory, if not in the cross-stake of our Master, Messiah Yeshua, through whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15. For in Messiah Yeshua neither [physical] circumcision avails any thing, nor [physical] uncircumcision, but a [supernal] new creature:
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Yisrael of Elohim.
17. From now on let none present to me [his physical circumcision] cuttings: for I bear in my body the stigmata of Yeshua.

He speaks from this:

Zechariah 13:4-6
4. And it shall come to pass in that day that the prophets shall be ashamed, every one of his vision, when he prophesies; neither shall they wear a hairy mantle to deceive:
5. But he shall say, No prophet am I, a tiller of the adamah [soil of the heart] am I; for an Adam purchased me from my youth.
6. And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds between thine arms? [where the heart is] Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[daqq]

AN APPROPRIATE METAPHOR:God presents us with an infinite orchard of cherries, which we call "reality." Since we are finite humans, we cannot expect to harvest the entire crop.

The results of my own cherry-picking:

Jesus of Nazareth did not refer to himself as the Messiah, nor did he claim to be a divine being who came to earth as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.
In fact, the first instance of the "died for our sins" theology did not make an appearance until around the year 900 in the writings of Christian theologian Anselm of Canterbury.

In the last 10 years or so, I have become persuaded that Jesus did not hold an apocalyptic view of the reign (or kingdom) of God. In other words, he did not hold that that God was about to bring history to an end and bring a new, perfect order of life into being. Even if we are to take the statements of a coming apocalypse literally (which I do not; I see them as creations placed into Jesus' mouth) he was totally wrong.

Jesus "did not teach as the Scribes." He did not use propositional theology or dogma. He spoke in parables, teaching the reign of God is a vision of what life in this world could be, not a vision of life in a future world that would soon be brought into being by a miraculous act of God.

At the heart of Jesus parabolic teaching and actions was a vision of a life under the reign of God (or, in the empire of God). He believed in a God of mercy, not sacrifice. He communicated to his followers a reality in which God’s generosity and goodness is regarded as the model and measure of human life.

It's easy to condemn me as disruptive and blasphemous, but be forewarned that any mockery or name-calling will be seen for what it is. I crave criticism using information from the Bible and other ancient sources. This is the only way I can learn new information and I am always on the lookout for others' opinions and positions that totally undercut and dislocate my own strongly-held beliefs and thinking. I just ask that--if you are able--to respond both respectfully and mature.

The teachings of Yeshua are indeed "apocalyptic" but not in a planetary world-wide global sense like the so-called futurists like to imagine. The apocalypse or Armageddon comes to each talmid in his or her own appointed times; and all things spoken through the Master Yeshua will indeed come to pass, each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times) if one indeed believes everything the Master says, and believes all of his words do indeed apply to himself or herself. We must put ourselves into the Testimony, walk it out, and believe that all of it will come to pass, (the flesh profits nothing, the words that he speaks are Spirit, and Life). After the "apocalypse" comes the true reign of Elohim upon your earth, (for every man has both the erets-earth-land with its "fields" of the outer bounds-commons-profane area of the temple, which represent "the flesh" with all its beasts, and likewise every man has the adamah-soil of the heart as revealed in the Parable of the Sower).

Believe it or not this is actually "apocalyptic" language:

Matthew 13:33
33. Another parable he spoke unto them: The kingdom of the heavens is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole [lump] was leavened.

Leaven is never used in any allegory for good but rather represents sin, (even though it appears in a seemingly good sense in Leviticus 23:17). Therefore beware the leaven of the Pharisees, the leaven of the Sadducees, (Matthew 16:6-12) and the leaven of Herod, (Mark 8:15) as the Master says; for they three with the doctrines of the Scribes are allegories concerning bad teachings and doctrines and the whole lump of three measures of meal is the resemblance of a man. It is not that Yeshua ever condemns any one of them individually as a person but rather uses their titles and teachings in allegorical parabolic idiom and language. The Pharisees and Sadducs as whole groups are neither condemned, but rather some of their doctrines and teachings, which are likened unto "evil leaven" which will leaven the whole lump which is the man, (especially if the man contains in his mind of the flesh all three leavenous beasts; yea, not far from then comes the fourth beast of the man and his End, lol).

Luke 13:6-9
6. He spoke also this parable; a certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why should it cumber it the ground?
8. And he answering said unto him, Master, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig up roundabout it, and fertilize thereof:
9. And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that shalt you chop it down.

Ah yes, a time, times, and the hemi . . .

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Thanks BR, if you did read my post illuminating on things from a UB perspective, and how it relates to more traditional/orthodox Christian teachings.

To your question......I don't know. 'Holds up the agnostic flag' - Adding to my former discourse....it is possible (could be 'probable' as well) that what is shared by the revelators of those papers...is 'true',....but we only have our reason, logic and intelligence to use to consider if such propositions are true, possible or probable. No matter how many Creator-Sons might exist...only Jesus is involved with us as our Creator, Savior, Lord. So....it is only our own Creator-Son that we have relationship with, who reveals to us The Father. - all other information given in the papers are just a greater cosmological over-view or topography of the cosmos, expanding our comprehension of the whole, and the potentials existing therein.

If Jesus is the way, truth and life, because he reveals 'God' to us...and is 'God' to us....then its most logical to accept him in that light, and then go on to prove is this is in fact true, and how it is true to us. In the final analysis or proving...its our own personal religious experience that verifies or confirms anything, but we must be open to learn more, or be corrected if needs be. The UB certainly proclaims Jesus as our Creator-Son, Savior, Lord...because this is what he is relationally to us. This is also accepted as true by traditional-orthodox Christianity as well.



pj

No one ought to be "humoring" your absurdities. You're a Mystic/cultist and not a Christian. Remember to tell posters
this as you're chattering away!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Note earlier BR, how I said a category of Jesus being both 'God' and 'Man' would have been appropriate, since traditional-orthodox theology assumes such. Sort of a divine/human con-fusion. I would have voted for 'both God and Man'.....as well as a host of Trinitarians here - where we differ might be in the mode/means and synergy of those natures,.....the same boggle-game theologians went thru for centuries, and to this day.

Now concerning the Urantia Papers teaching about Jesus being a Creator Son, and one among many other Creator Sons who are the offspring of the Universal Father,...this in no way diminishes or takes away from Jesus relationship to this world as its Creator, Savior and Lord...it just expands one's vision and cosmology to include a greater universal context (in universal/cosmic hierarchy), from the perspective of the group of celestials who indited the papers.

As shared before, the Christology emphasizes that this Creator-Son did 'bestow' himself, and the 'incarnation' itself is a divine mystery,...for this divine Son takes upon himself the human nature that he is born with, assuming the personality-attributes and potentials of that humanity (combined with the divinity of his higher nature). Hence the papers portray Jesus in a dual mode and title-ship.....as both the 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God'. This presents a somewhat peculiar insight into Jesus, which does agree in some aspects with traditional-orthodox theology, but also differs in certain respects as well. In any case, we've probably covered this in the UB thread, and we may expound on this more there.

~*~*~

Also note that Caino in this thread votes in the 'affirmative' that 'Jesus is God',......and from a UB perspective that is an acceptable statement....since Jesus as a Creator-Son is in fact the closest approximation of being 'God' to us, as our Creator, Savior and Lord, even though he is not the Universal Father, who is the First Source and Center of all that exists, the Father of all.

In emenational-extension and divine hierarchy....it is our Creator-Son who is most intimate with us, who has bestowed himself upon this world (he could have chosen other worlds of his making to incarnate,...but chose us, so that makes Earth (Urantia) kinda special ) to reveal 'God' to us, and proclaim the goodness of the kingdom (of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man).

There is more in the papers teaching about 'The Paradise Trinity' (comprising the Universal Father, Eternal Son & Infinite Spirit). An important item to recognize that differs from the traditional-orthodox Christian concept of the 'Trinity' is that Jesus is a Creator-Son, who is the offspring of The Universal Father and the Eternal Son of the Paradise Trinity, so he is NOT the Eternal Son who is a member of the Paradise Trinity, but their offspring. This is important to note,....since the papers claim that traditional-orthodox theology has mistakenly assumed Jesus is the Eternal Son in the Trinity, when he is not.

So,...the Paradise Trinity (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) is eternal, infinite, without beginning or end, as far as that original Trinity goes, but the Creator-Sons are the offspring of that Trinity,....so Jesus is NOT a part of that Original Trinity, but is a high and divine Creator-Son, none-the-less....and is the express-image, likeness, representation of 'Deity' to us, even with the new infusion/marriage of his divine and human nature that took place during his incarnation, all thru the resurrection & ascension, and however he is today in his present constitution.

Just thought to expand on this some more,....but will continue this in the UB thread, for those interested in a UB perspective, if you wish, respectfully.




pj

More Urantian garbage!

 

[Caino]

Note earlier BR, how I said a category of Jesus being both 'God' and 'Man' would have been appropriate, since traditional-orthodox theology assumes such. Sort of a divine/human con-fusion. I would have voted for 'both God and Man'.....as well as a host of Trinitarians here - where we differ might be in the mode/means and synergy of those natures,.....the same boggle-game theologians went thru for centuries, and to this day.

Now concerning the Urantia Papers teaching about Jesus being a Creator Son, and one among many other Creator Sons who are the offspring of the Universal Father,...this in no way diminishes or takes away from Jesus relationship to this world as its Creator, Savior and Lord...it just expands one's vision and cosmology to include a greater universal context (in universal/cosmic hierarchy), from the perspective of the group of celestials who indited the papers.

As shared before, the Christology emphasizes that this Creator-Son did 'bestow' himself, and the 'incarnation' itself is a divine mystery,...for this divine Son takes upon himself the human nature that he is born with, assuming the personality-attributes and potentials of that humanity (combined with the divinity of his higher nature). Hence the papers portray Jesus in a dual mode and title-ship.....as both the 'Son of Man' and 'Son of God'. This presents a somewhat peculiar insight into Jesus, which does agree in some aspects with traditional-orthodox theology, but also differs in certain respects as well. In any case, we've probably covered this in the UB thread, and we may expound on this more there.

~*~*~

Also note that Caino in this thread votes in the 'affirmative' that 'Jesus is God',......and from a UB perspective that is an acceptable statement....since Jesus as a Creator-Son is in fact the closest approximation of being 'God' to us, as our Creator, Savior and Lord, even though he is not the Universal Father, who is the First Source and Center of all that exists, the Father of all.

In emenational-extension and divine hierarchy....it is our Creator-Son who is most intimate with us, who has bestowed himself upon this world (he could have chosen other worlds of his making to incarnate,...but chose us, so that makes Earth (Urantia) kinda special ) to reveal 'God' to us, and proclaim the goodness of the kingdom (of the Fatherhood of God and Brotherhood of Man).

There is more in the papers teaching about 'The Paradise Trinity' (comprising the Universal Father, Eternal Son & Infinite Spirit). An important item to recognize that differs from the traditional-orthodox Christian concept of the 'Trinity' is that Jesus is a Creator-Son, who is the offspring of The Universal Father and the Eternal Son of the Paradise Trinity, so he is NOT the Eternal Son who is a member of the Paradise Trinity, but their offspring. This is important to note,....since the papers claim that traditional-orthodox theology has mistakenly assumed Jesus is the Eternal Son in the Trinity, when he is not.

So,...the Paradise Trinity (Universal Father, Eternal Son, Infinite Spirit) is eternal, infinite, without beginning or end, as far as that original Trinity goes, but the Creator-Sons are the offspring of that Trinity,....so Jesus is NOT a part of that Original Trinity, but is a high and divine Creator-Son, none-the-less....and is the express-image, likeness, representation of 'Deity' to us, even with the new infusion/marriage of his divine and human nature that took place during his incarnation, all thru the resurrection & ascension, and however he is today in his present constitution.

Just thought to expand on this some more,....but will continue this in the UB thread, for those interested in a UB perspective, if you wish, respectfully.




pj

Well done Freelight! :first:

 

[Caino]

Thanks BR, if you did read my post illuminating on things from a UB perspective, and how it relates to more traditional/orthodox Christian teachings.

To your question......I don't know. 'Holds up the agnostic flag' - Adding to my former discourse....it is possible (could be 'probable' as well) that what is shared by the revelators of those papers...is 'true',....but we only have our reason, logic and intelligence to use to consider if such propositions are true, possible or probable. No matter how many Creator-Sons might exist...only Jesus is involved with us as our Creator, Savior, Lord. So....it is only our own Creator-Son that we have relationship with, who reveals to us The Father. - all other information given in the papers are just a greater cosmological over-view or topography of the cosmos, expanding our comprehension of the whole, and the potentials existing therein.

If Jesus is the way, truth and life, because he reveals 'God' to us...and is 'God' to us....then its most logical to accept him in that light, and then go on to prove is this is in fact true, and how it is true to us. In the final analysis or proving...its our own personal religious experience that verifies or confirms anything, but we must be open to learn more, or be corrected if needs be. The UB certainly proclaims Jesus as our Creator-Son, Savior, Lord...because this is what he is relationally to us. This is also accepted as true by traditional-orthodox Christianity as well.



pj

I would only add the "good news" of the gospel, that all men and women are Sons of God not merely subjects of a kingdom with a national God.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear keypurr,

Good to hear from you. It's been a while. But you do your thing proselytizing and preaching, and I do the exact same thing on my Creation thread also. I am about ten pages behind on my thread, but I will read them as things go on. I have to read every post, which takes time, and then I write to them if they address them to me or make mention of my name in them. I have my choices. I try not to answer except when necessary. Then, on some days, I get a few pages done. Oh well, I digress!! You Have A Wonderful Week, Keypurr!!

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :rapture: :thumb:

​

 

[keypurr]

Dear keypurr,



Good to hear from you. It's been a while. But you do your thing proselytizing and preaching, and I do the exact same thing on my Creation thread also. I am about ten pages behind on my thread, but I will read them as things go on. I have to read every post, which takes time, and then I write to them if they address them to me or make mention of my name in them. I have my choices. I try not to answer except when necessary. Then, on some days, I get a few pages done. Oh well, I digress!! You Have A Wonderful Week, Keypurr!!



Michael



:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :rapture: :thumb:



​

Thank you for missing me Michael. Most here on TOL want me to dissappear. Good luck on getting your thread caught up.

Hope things are well with you friend, Bob

 

[Pierac]

Just believe what is written, and what is written plainly says that everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus; and, don’t forget that God hardened all the other Jews who did not already have faith in Him by the time Jesus started his earthly ministry.


God hardened the Jews who did not have faith in Him before Jesus came.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.

Mark 4:12 so that, "'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'"

Luke 19:41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it

John 12:40
"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."


I have no idea what you are talking about.
You are the one who merely believes what false teachers of your choice have taught you.

I have explained it to you, and I will explain it to you again.
The Jews were God’s people because they were blood related to Abraham. God chose the Jews because they were blood related to Abraham whom He loved. The Jews also had the law. The law was not based on faith. A Jew could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sin. God did not like that, but the law was not based on faith.
When Jesus started his earthly ministry, God cut off the Jews who did not already belong to Him by faith. Those who had faith in God when Jesus came, they are the ones who believed in Jesus. They were God’s, but God gave them to Jesus…they now had to go through Jesus to remain God’s. Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

You described yourself exactly.

Really you think so? Yet I did not write ...

NASB Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

NIV for you Stan J Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

YOU clowns have no idea what scripture teaches... you only see your view! That's why I stopped following men many years ago!

Your not seeing are you, yet Act 13:48 totally in context rips your view to shreds! You better man up or risk falling away as it's not easy to see your traditions go down in flames! Seek the truth... not men!

oly::sherlock:
Paul

 

[God's Truth]

Really you think so? Yet I did not write ...

NASB Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

NIV for you Stan J Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

YOU clowns have no idea what scripture teaches... you only see your view! That's why I stopped following men many years ago!

Your not seeing are you, yet Act 13:48 totally in context rips your view to shreds! You better man up or risk falling away as it's not easy to see your traditions go down in flames! Seek the truth... not men!

oly::sherlock:
Paul

You are believing what false teachers say.

Let me explain to you about that scripture.

The scripture says when the GENTILES heard this they began rejoicing. Why do you think they were rejoicing? The Gentiles were just told that they could now have a relationship with God; they could now have eternal life. The Gentiles used to be excluded, and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

HOWEVER, NOW they were told they could have salvation! All those Gentiles who were there who heard the good news, that Gentiles as a race of people could now have eternal life, they believed. Gentiles as a nation of people were appointed to eternal life, not all Gentiles will have eternal life, and only the Gentiles who believe will have eternal life. The Gentiles who were appointed life---all those there at that time believed.

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

There were Jews AND Gentiles in the crowd. All who were appointed [the Gentiles] in the crowd, all of them there believed.

 

[Pierac]

You are believing what false teachers say.

Let me explain to you about that scripture.

The scripture says when the GENTILES heard this they began rejoicing. Why do you think they were rejoicing? The Gentiles were just told that they could now have a relationship with God; they could now have eternal life. The Gentiles used to be excluded, and without God in the world, see Ephesians 2:12.

HOWEVER, NOW they were told they could have salvation! All those Gentiles who were there who heard the good news, that Gentiles as a race of people could now have eternal life, they believed. Gentiles as a nation of people were appointed to eternal life, not all Gentiles will have eternal life, and only the Gentiles who believe will have eternal life. The Gentiles who were appointed life---all those there at that time believed.

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

There were Jews AND Gentiles in the crowd. All who were appointed [the Gentiles] in the crowd, all of them there believed.

Wow... how you read your world view into scripture when you should be reading out of scripture... :think:

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

appointed... tassō tas' -so that is, assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot) In the pass. with eis (Act_13:48, "as many as were ordained to eternal life").

KJV Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

AVS Act 13:48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Codex Sinaiticus (E-sword) Act 13:48 And hearing it, the Gentiles rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as had been ordered for eternal life believed;

Latin Vulgate Act 13:48 audientes autem gentes gavisae sunt et glorificabant verbum Domini et crediderunt quotquot erant praeordinati ad vitam aeternam

1385 Wycliffe Act 13:48 And hethen men herden, `and ioieden, and glorifieden the word of the Lord; and bileueden, as manye as weren bifore ordeyned to euerlastinge lijf.

SO.... Your saying a person who was... appointed, ordained, had been ordered, and weren bifore ordeyned .... Were self directed and actually had a choice to believe or not? :think:

NASB Pro 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?

Pro 20:24 The steps of a person73 are ordained by74 the LORD — so how can anyone understand his own way?

Net Bible Pro 20:24 73 tn Heb "the steps of a man"; but "man" is the noun גֶּבֶר (gever, in pause), indicating an important, powerful person. BDB 149-50 s.v. suggests it is used of men in their role of defending women and children; if that can be validated, then a translation of "man" would be appropriate here. But the line seems to have a wider, more general application. The "steps" represent (by implied comparison) the course of life (cf. NLT "the road we travel").

74 tn Heb "from the LORD"; NRSV "ordered by the Lord" ; NIV "directed by the Lord."

sn To say that one's steps are ordained by the LORD means that one's course of actions, one's whole life, is divinely prepared and sovereignly superintended (e.g., Gen_50:26; Pro_3:6). Ironically, man is not actually in control of his own steps. :readthis:

Net Bible Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29 since we were predestined according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot" ). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot"


Paul

 

[God's Truth]

Wow... how you read your world view into scripture when you should be reading out of scripture...

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

appointed... tassō tas' -so that is, assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot) In the pass. with eis (Act_13:48, "as many as were ordained to eternal life").

Gentiles as a nation could now have eternal life. They were appointed to have eternal life.

KJV Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

AVS Act 13:48 And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Codex Sinaiticus (E-sword) Act 13:48 And hearing it, the Gentiles rejoiced, and glorified the word of the Lord, and as many as had been ordered for eternal life believed;

Latin Vulgate Act 13:48 audientes autem gentes gavisae sunt et glorificabant verbum Domini et crediderunt quotquot erantpraeordinati ad vitam aeternam

1385 Wycliffe Act 13:48 And hethen men herden, `and ioieden, and glorifieden the word of the Lord; and bileueden, as manye as weren bifore ordeyned to euerlastinge lijf.

SO.... Your saying a person who was... appointed, ordained, had been ordered, and weren bifore ordeyned .... Were self directed and actually had a choice to believe or not?

Of course, we have a choice. Gentiles used to be EXCLUDED and without God and Christ in the world. See Ephesians 2:12. Now they are appointed to have eternal life too.

 

[Pierac]

Gentiles as a nation could now have eternal life. They were appointed to have eternal life.


Of course, we have a choice. Gentiles used to be EXCLUDED and without God and Christ in the world. See Ephesians 2:12. Now they are appointed to have eternal life too.

Do you even read your post before you post ?

Are you saying being appointed, ordained, praeordinati, bifore ordeyned... is the same as having a choice? :dizzy:

Read my post again... http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4406613&postcount=4098

:doh:

You see only what you want to believe/see ... even when the truth is sitting in front of you!

oly::sherlock:
Paul

 

[patrick jane]

John 14:28 KJV

 

[God's Truth]

Do you even read your post before you post ?

Are you saying being appointed, ordained, praeordinati, bifore ordeyned... is the same as having a choice? :dizzy:

Read my post again... http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4406613&postcount=4098

:doh:

You see only what you want to believe/see ... even when the truth is sitting in front of you!

oly::sherlock:
Paul

Just think about it harder.

 

[Bright Raven]

John 14:28 KJV

He also said;

John 10:30 Modern English Version (MEV)

30 My Father and I are one.”

 

[Caino]

He also said;

John 10:30 Modern English Version (MEV)

30 My Father and I are one.”

I agree with the point here, and those religious authorities who heard Jesus speak in whatever language he used understood what he meant.

If it had been known it was long lost, the One God has a Son, God the Son, God Jr. who is the creator of his own local universe, but is united in spirit with his Father. Creation is a family business. Man is more like a grandchild.