hmmmm no God FORMED before or after Him. does this not tell us the Lord was saying He was the first formed of the Father, the captian of our salvation.
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
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hmmmm no God FORMED before or after Him. does this not tell us the Lord was saying He was the first formed of the Father, the captian of our salvation.
Well played Beloved57 … you expose this subject!!!
When Trinitarians say "God," they mean the combination of all three persons, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. If they want to refer to one specific member of the Trinity they will use the corresponding name such as "the Son" etc.
That’s it for the definitions for now, I hope that wasn’t too deep! Okay, one set up verse. Trinitarians will agree that there is only one God who is called Yahweh. The problem is that they include Jesus as a member of Yahweh. But for now, we all agree that the only God is Yahweh.
Isaiah 45:5 – "I am the LORD (YHWH) and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
This is pretty simple. YHWH is the ONLY God. So far, so good.
Exodus 3:15 – "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD (YHWH), the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you."
Okay, the God of your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the LORD (YHWH).
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob = YHWH.
Acts 3:13 – "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our ancestors, has glorified his servant Jesus."
Does this verse imply that Jesus is the God of Abraham etc.? Of course not! Just read it. The God of Abraham glorified who?
Himself? No! He glorified his servant Jesus. This is not difficult. Jesus is obviously not the God of Abraham etc. He is the God of Abraham’s SERVANT. Who is the God of Abraham? YHWH. And YHWH is who? The ONLY God. So Jesus is not God? Of course not. He is God’s anointed.
Acts 10:38 – "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power. He went about doing good and healing all oppressed by the devil, for God was with him."
Who anointed Jesus? It doesn’t say the Father anointed Jesus, it says GOD. You can obviously see that Jesus is not the God that anointed him. If I said, "The king anointed Bob," would you think that it meant that Bob is the king? Of course not. Jesus is the servant whom God anointed to do his will. That is the whole purpose of anointing someone, to give them the wisdom and power that they will need in order to serve God. Does it make sense to you that God would anoint God with God?
I just proved you right… Beloved57 !
oly::sherlock:
Paul
Well said:thumb: but will they be able to see it.
SeraphimsCherub
New member
Amen brother...I believe that too. The SON is the Eternal Word of YHWH The Father become Flesh by the Inception of Their/His Holy Spirit. Kind of like...They are He,and HE IS THE ONLY ONE TRUE,AND LIVING GOD OVER ALL...FATHER~SON~&~HOLY SPIRIT. That's the best i can come up with when it comes to Trinity Logic. Incomprehensiable,and thus it should be when it comes to trying to understand the BEING,and ESSENSE OF ALMIGHTY GOD. Nevertheless it is fun trying,and I'm pretty sure that GOD chuckles,and get's a little kick out our Trinity equations. Lol...
You misunderstood me SC, I don't believe in a trinity. I believe that their is God the Father the one true God and God the Son both disticnt from each other but of one purpose.
our God is ONE, not 3.
Nope.
We refer to the Trinity as God and also the individual hypostases as God. So yes, we do refer to each hypostasis as God: "God the Father," "God the Son," "God the Holy Spirit." How can we refer to each hypostasis as God, and still worship one God? Because they have a single undivided essence.
When we refer to the whole Trinity as God we are not referring to simply a "combination," but their common essence. Hence the Creed says that Jesus Christ is "of one essence (homoousios) with the Father."
We sing, at the Liturgy, "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity one in essence and undivided."
Please take time to study the classic expositions of Trinitarian doctrine. Here, for instance, is Saint Gregory the Theologian's classic exposition "On the Son" : http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf207.iii.xv.html
Jesus is Yahweh. He says so himself:
"Before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8: 58)
What does "Yahweh" mean? "I AM."
God the Father glorifies God the Son. They are distinct hypostases. So God can indeed glorify His Son and indeed Himself, as they are united in essence.
Your arguments stem from a basic misunderstanding of Christian Trinitarian doctrine. Back to the drawing board with you.
I close with Matthew 22: 41-45:
SeraphimsCherub
New member
JEHOVAH YHWH GOD IS GOD THE FATHER~GOD THE SON~&~GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT~&~GOD THE FATHER~GOD THE SON~&~GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT ARE JEHOVAH YHWH GOD.
SeraphimsCherub
New member
It's all good bro...if you believe there's no Trinity. I'm definitely not going to loose any sleep over it,and neither should you if i believe there is. We both Love JESUS,and Believe HE'S GOD,and that's all that truly matters.
Blessings...
SC
Apple7
New member
The Trinity is not three.
No wonder you think that you reject it...you don't even know what it is!
Typical uni....
1+1+1=3 not 1
God the Father + God the Son + God the Holy Spirit = 3 Gods not 1 God
And no you cannot use multiplication because Jesus always make a disticntion between Himself and the Father and also between Himself and the Holy Spirit.
No matter how you slice it you talk about 3 Gods but call those 3 Gods 1.
If the Holy Spirit is a God and Jesus says He will send ANOTHER it obviously is ANOTHER.
Apple7
New member
Your math is wrong.
refute this...
1x1x1 = 1
Each is the one God...so, yes...1x1x1 =1
Show us scripture that states that there are three Gods.
After all, this is what you think the Trinity is....good luck on that defending that one...
Scripture?
1+1+1=3
And you say that math is wrong.
Already explain you cannot use multiplication because Jesus said He would send ANOTHER.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Now if the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus tells us ANOTHER shell be sent it is someone else besides Himself and if Jesus is God then the Holy spirit cannot be God. Thus showing the trinity is a man made doctrine.
Apple7
New member
1+1+1=3
And you say that math is wrong.
Your math is wrong.
You have demonstrated that you don't know what the Trinity is.
You are fighting a straw-man...
Another what?
Another God?
lol....no, brother...
Show us the scripture in context....or...is this how your position works - by taking things out of context and ignoring the original languages...
.
SeraphimsCherub
New member
1+1+1=3
And you say that math is wrong.
Already explain you cannot use multiplication because Jesus said He would send ANOTHER.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Now if the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus tells us ANOTHER shell be sent it is someone else besides Himself and if Jesus is God then the Holy spirit cannot be God. Thus showing the trinity is a man made doctrine.
Well the HOLY SPIRIT is obviously GOD too. Becuase JESUS HIMSELF tells us,that blasphemy against THE HOLY SPIRIT is the only unforgivable sin. And that all manner of blasphemies against HIMSELF{JESUS} can be forgiven;but whosoever shall commit blasphemy against THE HOLY SPIRIT never hath forgiveness in this life,and that one which is to come here after.
Read the scriptures yourself, I am not doing you leg work for you.
Jn.14
Jn.15
Jn.16
ANOTHER is the comforter = the Holy Ghost/Spirit
Now according to the Trinitarian belief the Holy Spirit is the one true God, Jesus Christ is the one true God and the Father is the one true God.
So who is this ANOTHER? According to Trinitarians it has to be the ONE true God.
So how can the one true God be Jesus because Jesus said it was ANOTHER?
Jesus also says that this comforter will not speak of himself but will glorify Jesus.
Yet the Trinitarian belief is that the comforter and Jesus and the Father are all ONE God.
So how can the comforter NOT speak of himself, yet glorify Jesus?
Would not speaking of himself glorify Jesus if they are indeed ONE God?
So if Jesus is the one true God why is blasphemy against him forgiven, yet not forgiven when agaist the Holy Spirit?
If they are the same God it should carry the same sentence.
Apple7
New member
Little wonder that you don’t want to show the Greek, brother.
Again…another what?
The Greek states another paraklēton….not another Theos!
Another uni drop-dead ignorant of scripture…
SeraphimsCherub
New member
Because THE HOLY SPIRIT IS HIS SPIRIT. "And HE shall not speak of another;but shall glorify ME". Why?? Because HE IS MY{JESUS} SPIRIT. Plus the realm of HIS SPIRIT is a HIGHER Existance than the physical Created realm of HIS Flesh. So to sin against HIS SPIRIT,is a far greater,and Eternal insult in HIS EYE'S than to sin against HIS Flesh.
John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
If Jesus and the Father are ONE being then why does it say the testimony of two men is true?
Jesus goes on to say.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Thus we have a witness of TWO.
John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 3:1-2
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
John 10:29
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Now we know that the Father is NOT the Son and only the FATHER is called the ONE GOD.
Ephesians 3:14
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
If Jesus and the Father are ONE being then why does it say the testimony of two men is true?
Jesus goes on to say.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Thus we have a witness of TWO.
John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 3:1-2
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
John 10:29
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
.
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Now we know that the Father is NOT the Son and only the FATHER is called the ONE GOD.
Ephesians 3:14
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Silly you just undid your whole belief.
The Holy Ghost/Spirit according to you guys is GOD.
Now you are saying He/Holy Spirit is NOT God but ANOTHER.