Jesus is God !

israeldnr

israeldnr

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beloved57 said:
Guess what ? It does not matter what you fail to see, that is the the point, you, so see you at the Judgment !

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What? G-d has blinded me? Well, now I'm definitely going to hell.
The questions I ask, I address to anyone and if G-d or he wishes to answer, I'm wide open.
It reminds me a conversation I made with a missioner in NY, and he told me that G-d says to open a window and G-d will revile the truth to me. I prayed to G-d and told him to guide me in the true path. He led me to Judaism.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
israeldnr said:
What? G-d has blinded me? Well, now I'm definitely going to hell.
The questions I ask, I address to anyone and if G-d or he wishes to answer, I'm wide open.
It reminds me a conversation I made with a missioner in NY, and he told me that G-d says to open a window and G-d will revile the truth to me. I prayed to G-d and told him to guide me in the true path. He led me to Judaism.
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Yes you are blinded, nothing can be done, see you at the Judgment !

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Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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I used to not believe that Jesus was God because I did not have a proper concept of how Jesus could be God, but he always prayed to God and called God His Father. I won't get into explaining it right here because that's a discussion by itself. But Jesus did claim to be God. He said "Before Abraham was, I AM." Jesus Christ claimed to be the voice of the burning bush. And Jesus did not lie.
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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There are proofs outside the NT. I have a collection somewhere of historical Jewish accounts from around 70 AD when the temple was destroyed referencing the belief of many that is was the killing of Jesus that caused God's judgement on them. I will have to find them and post them in a thread.

Further, I dispute the demand for "non-Christian" texts that declare Jesus as God. Would not any text that declared Jesus to be God automatically be Christian by default? Yes, they would.
 
jamie

jamie

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Daniel1611 said:
I used to not believe that Jesus was God because I did not have a proper concept of how Jesus could be God...
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Peter said, "Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." (Acts 2:22)

God worked through Jesus, who was a man approved of God, to do miracles and wonders and signs. Jesus was human just like us and could do nothing of himself. Jesus could only do what God did through him.

Jesus was God in the flesh because he was indwelt by the Father the same as you and me. And like us Jesus could only do what God did through him.

All you have done is to make yourself a golden calf and called it Jesus.
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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Jesus was a man. And if you are going to use the Bible to prove that Jesus is only a man, you have to say something about the verses that explicitly call Jesus God. Like I said above, Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM." He claimed there to actually be God. The Bible also records God speaking to Jesus saying "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever." Also, Jesus allowed himself to be worshiped. If he were not God, this would have been extreme blasphemy. The Bible also reads in John 1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God." There are numerous verses in the Bible that refers explicitly to Jesus being God. Jesus came to earth as a man, but he is God. Aside from just saying Jesus is God, the Bible also makes many references to Jesus being omnipotent, omnipresent, pre existent and eternal, all things God is.

If you use a Bible verse to state that Jesus is human, you must deal with the verses that also say that he is God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
jamie said:
Peter said, "Ye men of Israel, hear these words, Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know." (Acts 2:22)

God worked through Jesus, who was a man approved of God, to do miracles and wonders and signs. Jesus was human just like us and could do nothing of himself. Jesus could only do what God did through him.

Jesus was God in the flesh because he was indwelt by the Father the same as you and me. And like us Jesus could only do what God did through him.

All you have done is to make yourself a golden calf and called it Jesus.
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Blasphemy !

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jamie

jamie

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Daniel1611 said:
Jesus was a man. And if you are going to use the Bible to prove that Jesus is only a man, you have to say something about the verses that explicitly call Jesus God. Like I said above, Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM." He claimed there to actually be God. The Bible also records God speaking to Jesus saying "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever." Also, Jesus allowed himself to be worshiped. If he were not God, this would have been extreme blasphemy. The Bible also reads in John 1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the word was God." There are numerous verses in the Bible that refers explicitly to Jesus being God. Jesus came to earth as a man, but he is God. Aside from just saying Jesus is God, the Bible also makes many references to Jesus being omnipotent, omnipresent, pre existent and eternal, all things God is.

If you use a Bible verse to state that Jesus is human, you must deal with the verses that also say that he is God.
Click to expand...

I don't see that any of that says Jesus is the only true God. If that is what you choose to believe then that's what you will believe.
 
Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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How does a verse where Jesus claims to be the voice a the burning bush not mean he is claiming to be God? Go said to Jesus "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever." These are explicit statements of Jesus' God-hood. Regardless of belief, this is what the text says. You can believe or not believe the ideas conveyed by the text, but your disbelief does not mean that those ideas are not explicitly stated in the texts. You just choose not believe what the text says. That's fine, but your assertion that the God-hood of Jesus is not in the Bible is provably false.
 
jamie

jamie

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Daniel1611 said:
How does a verse where Jesus claims to be the voice a the burning bush not mean he is claiming to be God?
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God is not an angel. Christ is a messenger of God, but messengers are not automatically considered God. Messengers deliver a message from God to someone else.
 
jamie

jamie

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Daniel1611 said:
Go said to Jesus "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever."
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If he called them gods unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken, say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, thou blasphemest because I said I am the Son of God? (John 10:35-36)​

Jesus said his Father is God and God said his Son is god. The Father considers all of his children gods and that would most certainly include Jesus.
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
The truth of John 8:58

The truth of John 8:58

Daniel1611 said:
I used to not believe that Jesus was God because I did not have a proper concept of how Jesus could be God, but he always prayed to God and called God His Father. I won't get into explaining it right here because that's a discussion by itself. But Jesus did claim to be God. He said "Before Abraham was, I AM." Jesus Christ claimed to be the voice of the burning bush. And Jesus did not lie.
Click to expand...

We've had a few threads on John 8:58 in the past refuting the claim that Jesus is identifying himself as the one who spoke in Ex. 3:14. This mistake is clearly exposed. The Greek in the passage does NOT equate to the Hebrew name nor the Greek in the Septuagint which the below videos clearly show.

Studying John 8:58 in Greek


"Before Abraham I am"


John 8:58


An extensive debate with Robert Bowman and Jason BeDuhn
On John 8:58 and the New World Translation can be found here.

When the facts are plainly seen it is clear that assuming Jesus is claiming to be the Great I AM of Ex. 3:14 is reading into the text what has no justification beyond a Trinitarian presupposition/assumption.



pj
 
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Daniel1611

Daniel1611

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jamie said:
If he called them gods unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken, say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, thou blasphemest because I said I am the Son of God? (John 10:35-36)​

Jesus said his Father is God and God said his Son is god. The Father considers all of his children gods and that would most certainly include Jesus.
Click to expand...

Ok. Even if you're assessment as Jesus just being a messenger of God and a son of god in the same sense that all believers are is correct, then it doesn't explain why Jesus claimed to be the voice of the burning bush. Jesus called himself "I AM." Here, he explicitly refers to himself as God.
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
Daniel1611 said:
I used to not believe that Jesus was God because I did not have a proper concept of how Jesus could be God, but he always prayed to God and called God His Father. I won't get into explaining it right here because that's a discussion by itself. But Jesus did claim to be God. He said "Before Abraham was, I AM." Jesus Christ claimed to be the voice of the burning bush. And Jesus did not lie.
Click to expand...


Jesus was saying that he was the Christ not God.


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jamie

jamie

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Daniel1611 said:
Ok. Even if you're assessment as Jesus just being a messenger of God and a son of god in the same sense that all believers are is correct, then it doesn't explain why Jesus claimed to be the voice of the burning bush. Jesus called himself "I AM." Here, he explicitly refers to himself as God.
Click to expand...

Moreover he said, "I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face for he was afraid to look upon God." (Exodus 3:6)​

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus whom ye delivered up and denied him in the presence of Pilate when he was determined to let him go. (Acts 3:13)​

And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sinai an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. (Acts 7:30)​

Saying, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled and durst not behold. (Acts 7:32)​
 
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