Jesus is God !
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7djengo7
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But no Trinitarian has said that Jesus was/is the Father, and no Trinitarian has said that the Father is/has been incarnate. So, what "point" are you trying to make?
If, by your word, "God," you are referring to the Father, then your phrase, "the incarnation of [the Father]" is nonsensical; it is cognitively meaningless, as it is referent-less. The phrase, "the incarnation of the Father," is neither the name nor a description of anything, whatsoever, since the Father has never been incarnate. (Similarly, a phrase like "the sinfulness of God" is meaningless since God is not sinful, and "the honesty of Satan" is meaningless since Satan is never honest.)
The Incarnation spoken of by Christians is the incarnation of God the Son. Anti-Trinitarian brute beasts such as yourself are constantly, pointlessly whining about a false proposition Trinitarians, qua Trinitarians, reject: viz., that Jesus is the Father. That Jesus is not the Father is an essential truth of Trinitarianism, and every Trinitarian believes that Jesus is not the Father. Instead of continuing preaching to the Trinitarian choir by attacking the non-Trinitarian falsehood that Jesus is the Father, why not try attacking the Trinitarian (in other words, Biblical) truth that Jesus is God the Son? Have fun trying to "prove" that Jesus is not God the Son.
325 AD / 325 AD / 325 AD / 325 AD. Four Hail Marys and no ice-cream after supper for me.
I'm still chuckling at that post. Christ-hating pagan. Thank you, you're good value. Always guaranteed for a good laugh. Your righteous indignation just oozes out of your every post.
I read your post. Love the personal touches you added.
Of course I'm a sinner. What a really stupid thing to say. I will pay for all my transgressions just like you.
7djengo7
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Whom will you pay for all your transgressions?
How do you imagine you will do so?
When do you imagine you will be done paying for all your transgressions?
And, if you imagine you can pay for all your transgressions, then why have you not yet paid for all your transgressions?
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7djengo7
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I never asked if you are a sinner, you sinner. I already knew you are a sinner.
To what are you referring?
You go first.
7djengo7
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That doesn't even make any sense. Go first at what??
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
The first shall be last
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You never make any attempt to give us the scripture for your false beliefs.
Jesus was God before He took on human flesh.
Jesus and His Father shared the glory of God always.
John 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
You are a liar. Paul declared the deity of Christ throughout his epistles.
1Tim 3:16 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:16) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Wrong.
Is it not loving to tell someone who's about to jump out of an airplane with no parachute to equip one?
No. Accept what the Bible says, or be damned.
As all concepts do... usually.
So what?
Just because the word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible doesn't mean the Bible doesn't teach that God is triune.
Irrelevant.
Yet you claim to understand it enough to know that God is not triune?
How does that make sense?
Agreed.
No one here has said "God is composed of parts."
So we also agree on this.
So why keep bringing it up?
*God, capital G.
*His
God refers to Himself as male, because He is three Persons.
Why couldn't God enter His own creation? What prevents Him from doing so, according to you?
Note that any answer to this contradicts your "God remains beyond human understanding" shtick.
A follow up to the above question: Why couldn't God not only enter His creation, but also come as a man?
Yes, the world murdered Jesus Christ.
But here's what Jesus had to say about that:
| Luke 23:33-35: 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.” And they divided His garments and cast lots. 35 And the people stood looking on. But even the rulers with them sneered, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself if He is the Christ, the chosen of God.” |
On the other hand, that was part of His plan. Jesus also said:
| John 15:12-14: 12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. |
And Paul said this:
| Romans 5:7-9: 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. |
Did you catch that?
"But GOD demonstrates His own love toward us, in that . . . Christ died for us."
Jesus Christ is God.
Thomas Aquinas was not an inspired author of the Bible, and has just as much authority over scripture as you or me.
Let God be true, and every man a liar.
There is THREE Persons in the Godhead. (And yes, that "grammatical error" is intentional.)
Why?
No, He's not.
Saying God is composed of parts IS heresy.
Irrelevant. God IS one God, and He is three persons.
Because Jesus was God in the flesh.
"Elohim" is the plural form of the Hebrew word for god. The very first verse of the Bible uses the plural form of the noun "god" and the singular form of the word "create."
Translated woodenly literally, it comes out as: "In the beginning, [Gods] [He created] the heavens and the earth."
In the beginning, God created an image for His Son to indwell, then created man in that image.
He then, 2000 years ago, roughly, tabernacled in a tent of flesh, in the same form that He had created Man in.
False. See above.
Nope.
Colossians 1:9-18:
9 For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.[/BOX]
Jesus wasn't just the express image of God.
| Colossians 2:8-10: 8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. |
And Jesus Himself backs this up:
| John 17:1-5: Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. |
No, he's not, as per Colossians 1:16.
No, he's not described as such, and I have no idea where you got that idea.
False.
False.
John 1:1, 14
way 2 go
Well-known member
I love how you address the verses we provide and show us how wrong we are from those verses
oh wait that never happens
You choose a piece of Scripture, or a set of Scripture pertaining to a specific belief you have, then explain how you believe that this supports your belief and if I agree with you I'll indicate as such. If I disagree with you I'll try to find Scripture to support my take.
Cut and paste a section from a previous post, whatever and let's see how we go.
Mostly the responses on here are 30% ad hominem / 40% Scripture that does not support the belief and the rest is a mix of maintaining a religious status quo.
As for poor, Hayden Panettiere, beautiful woman, but what a mess she has made of a fortunate life.
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Was Jesus a liar when He said that He would raise Himself from the dead?
You make your posts near impossible to respond to because they are so full of vitriol and a lack of basic understanding of spiritual concepts. It's not that I don't appreciate your responses, I genuinely do, but we have so little common ground to work from.
Triune God according to Athanasius - excerpts from the Athanasian Creed “...we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity... for there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Ghost is all one... they are not three gods, but one God... the whole three persons are co-eternal and co-equal... he therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity...”.
Now while I acknowledge that there might be less convoluted attempts to make sense of something that makes no sense, in general the concept of the Trinity is found in this excerpt. Basically, one person, God the Father, plus one person, God the Son, plus one person, God the Holy Ghost, equals one person, God the What?
References used to build a case for the Trinity from Scripture a vague at best.
KJ Version - 1 John 5:7 “...there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”. This is now agreed to by Biblical scholars as with doubt a later addition. It is not found in today's versions of the Bible.
In Matthew 28:19 the "Great Commission," "baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." This being clearly an addition to Biblical texts.
1) baptism in the early Church, as discussed by Paul in his letters, was done only in the name of Jesus; and
2) the “Great Commission” was found in the first gospel written, that of Mark, bears no mention of Father, Son and/or Holy Ghost.
The concept of a Trinity of divine beings was not an idea put forth by Jesus. This doctrine, now subscribed to by Christians all over the world, is entirely man-made in origin.
Paul of Tarsus, the man who is considered the true founder of today's Christianity, formulated many of its doctrines, yet despite that the Trinity, foundational to many Christian denominations was not among them.
No, I don't.
No, they're not.
Says the one who can't even argue against our beliefs because he keeps attacking straw men.
Not my fault.
And?
I would generally agree.
No. One Person, the Father, and one Person, the Son, and one Person, the Holy Spirit, are one GOD.
It's not "1 Person + 1 Person + 1 Person = 3 Gods."
It's "1 Person * 1 Person * 1 Person = 1 God."
God is WHAT He is.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit is WHO He is.
Human is WHAT you are.
BlueBoy is WHO you are.
They're not.
| The Traditional Passages Showing Christ's Deity: Most of the primary verses with a sampling of the many others showing that, like the Father, Jesus is... - Called God: John 1:1 with v. 14; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8; 2 Pet. 1:1; Luke 1:16-17 - From Everlasting: Ps. 90:2 with Micah 5:2 - Receiving worship: Mat. 2:11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:38; Heb. 1:6 (etc., 10x) with Ex. 34:14; Acts 10:25-26 & Rev. 19:10 - Forgiving/Delegating Power to Forgive: Mat. 6:9, 12 with Jn. 20:23; Luke 5:20; Mark 2:5-11 & 1 Jn. 1:7-9 - Omniscient: John 10:15; 2:24-25 21:17 - Omnipresent: Ps. 139:7-10 with Mat. 18:20 & 28:20 - Omnipotent: Rev. 1:8 with 11-13, 17; 2:8; 5:11-6:1, 21:22-23; & 22:13 - Immutable: Mal. 3:6 with Hebrews 13:8 - The exact equivalent
|
See? Crystal clear.
Which is why I don't typically use this verse whenever I'm debating the Triunity of God.
In other words, you've come up with yet another straw man.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Yes, and?
I'm not about to cast pearls before swine, but there's a reason why Paul's teachings on baptism are different than what is found in the Gospels.
So what?
Yet another straw man.
1) It's not a "Trinity of divine beings." It's a Trinity of PERSONS, WHO ARE ONE BEING.
2) No one has said that Jesus "put forth the idea of the Trinity," as if you think that we claim that He was the one to originate it.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
He's not the founder of it. Jesus is.
He was given his doctrines BY CHRIST.
Because it's not one that He formed. It was already foundational to everything else recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures.
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What a wonderful false accusation.
The problem is that you have little common ground with Christians that believe what the Bible says.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jesus is speaking here:
Isaiah 48
12 Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last.
13 My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I called; they stood up together.
14 Let all of you gather and hear; who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; He will do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.
15 I, I, have spoken; yea, I have called him; I brought him and he makes his way succeed.
16 Come near to me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent me.
