Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah

[Jerry Shugart]

Adressed here - specifically John 20:28.

You just IGNORED what I wrote about the following passage:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

From this we can see that the Lord Jesus is in the form of God.

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He will appear to the inhabitants of heaven:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. And the following verse describes the ONE sitting on the throne and we can know that the Lord Jesus is God:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

Since Jehovah God is the only one who can be identified as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, then we can know that the following words of the Lord Jesus identify Him as God:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

We can know for certain that there are the words of the Lord Jesus because later we can see that the Apostle John knew that those words were spoken by the Lord Jesus. He said:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

Are you going to ever address this?

 

[freelight]

You just IGNORED what I wrote about the following passage:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

From this we can see that the Lord Jesus is in the form of God.

Hold your horses, Im not IGNORING those passages. I've other things on my plate at the moment and had in mind to do some further research on those passages, in due time. - at this point, we are kinda 'tugging' between 2 threads, so will have to coordinate such or link back and forth. I'm sure you've heard most if not all the Unitarian interpretations of your passages, so this is not new territory. Any further discussion will be to consider all possible/probable interpretations of the texts, from both Unitarian, Trinitarian and other viewpoints. Phillipians 2:5-7 can be variously interpreted, its one of those 'versatile' passage, but I need to look at a few more things there.

 

[Zeke]

Yes, Thomas really identified the Lord Jesus as God:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).​

If the Lord Jesus is not God then certainly He would have corrected Thomas. But He did no such thing. Instead, what He said to Thomas in reply confirms that what Thomas said was correct:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed" (Jn.20:29).​

Once Thomas saw the Lord Jesus in His resurrected body then any doubt that he might have had about the Lord Jesus being God vanished. And by the Lord's response we can know for certain that what Thomas said was right, that the Lord Jesus is God.



In order to have a proper understanding of what the Lord Jesus said there we must look at this passage:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

Here we see that the Lord Jesus was made in the likeness of men. In fact, He was made like us in every way (Heb.2:17). And every "man" has a God:

"The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all" (Ps.103:19).​

The LORD is in total control over the universe which He created, so therefore He rules over it all and that includes all "men." The Lord Jesus subjected Himself to everything in regard to being a "man," including things like hunger, exhaustion, sorrow and all the other emotions experienced by man.

And since the Lord Jesus was made like a man in all things that means that in His role as "man" He has a God. That fact cannot be disputed!

When we consider Philippians 2:5-7 again we can see that before the Lord Jesus took on the form of man that He was in the form of God.

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He will appear to the inhabitants of heaven:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God. And from this verse which describes the ONE sitting on the throne we can know that the Lord Jesus is God:

"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).​

Since Jehovah God is the only one who can be identified as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, then we can know that the following words of the Lord Jesus identify Him as God:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

We can know for certain that there are the words of the Lord Jesus because later we can see that the Apostle John knew that those words were spoken by the Lord Jesus. He said:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

What more evidence do you need before you will recognize the truth that the Lord Jesus is Jehovah God?

Lord and God is used in scripture for kings and magistrates so Luke calling someone my God or Lord isn't as fool proof as you think! If you have ID and use a legal name the Government is a God to you because you obey and patronize it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Lord and God is used in scripture for kings and magistrates so Luke calling someone my God or Lord isn't as fool proof as you think!

So you think that when Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" that he was really saying that Jesus is a king and a magistrate?

 

[steko]

Lord and God is used in scripture for kings and magistrates so Luke calling someone my God or Lord isn't as fool proof as you think! If you have ID and use a legal name the Government is a God to you because you obey and patronize it.

Before the Lord Jesus saved me, the Bible was a closed book to me, I couldn't understand it. After I was saved it began to open up to me with understanding.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[/COLOR]

Jesus is Lord,(Kurios-Master of all) not Yahweh (LORD)

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Adonai and Adoni (Psalm 110:1)

The Bible’s supreme proof text for telling the difference between the One God and the Messiah who is not God

This verse was referred to the Messiah by the Pharisees and by Jesus. It tells us that the relationship between God and Jesus is that of Deity and non-Deity. The Messiah is called adoni (my lord) and in every one of its 195 occurrences adoni (my lord) means a superior who is not God. Adonai on the other hand refers exclusively to the One God in all of its 449 occurrences. Adonai is the title of Deity and adoni never designates Deity.

If the Messiah were called Adonai this would introduce “two Gods” into the Bible and would be polytheism. Psalm 110:1 should guard us all against supposing that there are two who are God. In fact the Messiah is the supreme human being and agent of the One God. Psalm 110:1 is the Bible’s master text for defining the Son of God in relation to the One God, his Father.

Why is it that a number of commentaries misstate the facts about Psalm 110:1? They assert that the word for the Messiah in Psalm 110:1 is adonai. It is not. These commentaries seem to obscure a classic text defining God in relation to His Son. The Hebrew text assigns to the Messiah the title adoni which invariably distinguishes the one addressed from the Deity. The Messiah is the supreme human lord. He is not the Lord God (cp. I Tim. 2:5; I Cor. 8:4-6; Mark 12:28ff).

Why is the Messiah called adoni (my lord) and never adonai (my Lord God)?

“Adonai and Adoni are variations of Masoretic pointing to distinguish divine reference from human.”

Adonai is referred to God but Adoni to human superiors.

Adoni — ref. to men: my lord, my master [see Ps. 110:1]

Adonai — ref. to God…Lord (Brown, Driver, Briggs, Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, under adon [= lord]).

“The form ADONI (‘my lord’), a royal title (I Sam. 29:8), is to be carefully distinguished from the divine title ADONAI (‘my Lord’) used of Yahweh.” “ADONAI — the special plural form [the divine title] distinguishes it from adonai [with short vowel] = my lords” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, “Lord,” p. 157).

“Lord in the OT is used to translate ADONAI when applied to the Divine Being. The [Hebrew] word…has a suffix [with special pointing] presumably for the sake of distinction…between divine and human appellative” (Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, “Lord,” Vol. 3, p. 137).

“Hebrew Adonai exclusively denotes the God of Israel. It is attested about 450 times in the OT…Adoni [is] addressed to human beings (Gen. 44:7, Num. 32:25, II Kings 2:19 [etc.]). We have to assume that the word adonai received its special form to distinguish it from the secular use of adon [i.e., adoni]. The reason why [God is addressed] as adonai, [with long vowel] instead of the normal adon, adoni or adonai [with short vowel] may have been to distinguish Yahweh from other gods and from human lords” (Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, p. 531).

“The lengthening of the ā on Adonai [the Lord God] may be traced to the concern of the Masoretes to mark the word as sacred by a small external sign” (Theological Dictionary of the OT, “Adon,” p. 63 and Theological Dictionary of the NT, III, 1060ff. n.109).

“The form ‘to my lord,’ l’adoni, is never used in the OT as a divine reference…the generally accepted fact that the masoretic pointing distinguishes divine references (adonai) from human references (adoni)” (Wigram, The Englishman’s Hebrew and Chaldee Concordance of the OT, p. 22) (Herbert Bateman, “Psalm 110:1 and the NT,” Bibliothecra Sacra, Oct.-Dec., 1992, p. 438).

http://focusonthekingdom.org/articles/adonai.htm

 

[Notaclue]

So you think that when Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" that he was really saying that Jesus is a king and a magistrate?

1Chron.29:20. And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.


*7812*. shachah ►
Strong's Concordance
shachah: to bow down
Original Word: שָׁחָה
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shachah
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-khaw')
Short Definition: worship
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to bow down
NASB Translation
bow (5), bow ourselves down (1), bow yourselves down (1), bow down (21), bowed (16), bowed in worship (1), bowed themselves down (2), bowed down (14), bowing (1), bowing down (1), bows down (1), did homage (1), down in homage (1), homage (1), lie down (1), paid homage (3), prostrate (2), prostrated (13), prostrating (1), weighs it down (1), worship (47), worshiped (31), worshiping (3), worships (2).



Peace.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

1Chron.29:20. And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.

Your point?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Before the Lord Jesus saved me, the Bible was a closed book to me, I couldn't understand it. After I was saved it began to open up to me with understanding.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

EXCELLENT!

Of course this will probably not receive any answer from those who deny that the Lord Jesus is God.

 

[jamie]

Jesus is Lord,(Kurios-Master of all) not Yahweh (LORD)

Thus says the LORD [YHVH] who makes a way in the sea and a path through the mighty waters, who brings forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power (they shall lie down together, they shall not rise; they are extinguished, they are quenched like a wick) (Isaiah 43:16-17)​

 

[Right Divider]

Thus says the LORD [YHVH] who makes a way in the sea and a path through the mighty waters, who brings forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power (they shall lie down together, they shall not rise; they are extinguished, they are quenched like a wick) (Isaiah 43:16-17)​

Jer 23:1-8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:1) Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. (23:2) Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. (23:3) And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. (23:4) And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. (23:5) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. (23:6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. (23:7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; (23:8) But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.​

 

[Notaclue]

Even Jesus said He was the "Son" of God, and also "God, the FATHER." There is a Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost! They are three separate but similar beings.

Michael

So God the Father made Jesus, God the Holy Spirit and God the Son? Is this your belief?


Acts2:36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.



Peace.

 

[freelight]

So you think that when Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" that he was really saying that Jesus is a king and a magistrate?

Zeke was probably just reminding that the titles 'lord' and 'god' are also applicable to men holding respected offices of high regard, such as judges, magistrates, kings, rulers, messiahs, etc. Jesus does qualify in that regard, if you regard him a king or messiah.

As I shared on John 20:28 earlier, an exclamation of praise in the face of the miracle of Jesus resurrected body could naturally merit a "my lord and my god!", but this does not mean he was calling Jesus specifically and individually his 'god'. Context is key. Thomas was full aware that his 'God' was only the invisible Father, and that Jesus also always referred to his Father-God, the omnipresent Infinite One.

 

[freelight]

Even Jesus said He was the "Son" of God, and also "God, the FATHER." There is a Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost! They are three separate but similar beings.

Michael

Hi Michael,

I don't recall Jesus ever claiming to be God the Father. Jesus clearly shows the Father (his Father) is a different, separate personality from himself. Or did you make a typo above?

I understand this may take us into a tailspin discussion of Trinitarian confusions...but what the hoot,...its Xmas, have a little fun

 

[freelight]

Your point?

Seems like the point is obvious. The passages shows both the LORD and the human king, receiving worship.

Persons of high esteem and honor can be worshipped alongside God.

Representatives of God can be worshipped as 'God' is worshipped, but only as they truly represent 'God' in spirit and truth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Zeke was probably just reminding that the titles 'lord' and 'god' are also applicable to men holding respected offices of high regard, such as judges, magistrates, kings, rulers, messiahs, etc. Jesus does qualify in that regard, if you regard him a king or messiah.

Do you think that anyone other than Jehovah God can rightfully be referred to as the "Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending"?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Seems like the point is obvious. The passages shows both the LORD and the human king, receiving worship.

This is a better translation:

"Then David said to all the assembly, “Bless the LORD your God.” And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the LORD and to the king" (1 Chron.29:20).​

Representatives of God can be worshipped as 'God' is worshipped, but only as they truly represent 'God' in spirit and truth.

Peter, who was a representative of God, did not share your opinion:

"And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man" (Acts 10:25-26).​

Peter knew that "men" were not to be worshipped so if the Lord Jesus is just a "man" then why would He accept "worship" from men?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Acts2:36. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "made" is "declare one anything" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So the proper meaning of the verse is this:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath declared that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."​

 

[Zeke]

So you think that when Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God" that he was really saying that Jesus is a king and a magistrate?

Can flesh Luke 24:39 walk through walls/doors or inherit 1Cor 15:50 the kingdom? the context of flesh would be a type just like when Jesus said you must eat my flesh and drink my blood John 6:56, do you have some in the freezer or is this a allegorical phrase? No man has seen God/Spirit unless they are having a dream or Vision Gen 32:30 Thomas was either having a vision or its symbolic Galatians 4:24, Luke 17:20-21, Matt 11:11 etc........

 

[Notaclue]

One of the meanings of the Greek word translated "made" is "declare one anything" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So the proper meaning of the verse is this:

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath declared that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."​

Deut4:2. "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


Pro.30:6. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.


Rev.22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.