Then why did you mention the mass of the comet?
Because the mass is directly relevant to how much energy it would take to accelerate these objects into an orbit around the Sun.
Note that comet's were NOT launched as a SINGLE "comet sized piece of earth", but at numerous smaller pieces of varying sizes. The forces of gravity relative to each other attract them into "flying rock piles" that include a significant amount of water ice.
The matter ejected from the earth was scattered in ALL directions. So some it GAINED more
velocity compared to the motion of the earth and some LOST velocity compared to the motion of the earth (and everywhere in between).
Note that the friction of the earth's atmosphere was negligible compared to all of the other forces involved and can therefore be ignored.
Your underlined portion of that paragraph is simply false.
No it isn't. It make no difference whether the mass started as one big rock or a whole bunch of little ones. It's still the same about of mass with the same result. Breaking that mass into thousands a little pieces just make the problem harder for your side. The more complexity you add the more implausible it becomes.
I don't see the relevance of "what scientists have figured out how to shoot" compared to what these forces that Dr. Brown describes were capable of doing.
I was simply pointing out how much energy it takes to even get one single gram up to less than half of the Earth's orbital velocity around the Sun and how that amount of energy was prone to vaporizing the projectile, which was made of something with a much higher melting point (much less vapor point) than whatever it is comets are made of.
Again, that is a VERY, VERY small portion of the mass of the earth!
I don't care. It is utterly irrelevant. A mass' ratio to the mass of the Earth has nothing to do with how much energy it takes to accelerate it to 18 miles per second, which is the approximate speed it would have to be pushed in the opposite direction of Earth's travel around the Sun in order for it to end up in orbit around the Sun.
Again, appeal to the stone is not a good argument. Dr. Brown believes that there was sufficient energy released and so do I. Also note that the forces need not all be "instantaneous".
Dr. Brown's theory is supposed to be scientific, not religious. Who care what he "believes"?
And I am not making any sort of logically fallacious argument here. None of this is my opinion or my belief. The laws of physics requires a certain amount of energy to be applied to a given mass to accelerate it in a particular direction. The energies involved here would very easily vaporize the rock before luckily landing it in an orbit around the Sun.
Again, that is simply false. There is no need to "cancel out the velocity of the Earth's motion relative to the Sun".
Of course it isn't false. Just do a google search on how they went about sending the Parker Solar Probe to the Sun. Look for discussions about orbital dynamics and what they had to do to send that single 1500 lbs space craft into a solar orbit. What you'll find out is that in order to sink closer to the Sun, you have to cancel out the velocity that the Earth gave you. Otherwise, you're just in orbit with, if not around, the Earth.
Better than Google, let's ask Chat GPT!
"How much energy would it take to put one ounce of material into orbit around the sun from earth?"
The following answer was copy/pasted from ChatGPT. The formatting didn't survive in several places but it's the final answer the we care about so....
To calculate the energy required to put one ounce of material into orbit around the Sun from Earth, we need to consider the gravitational potential energy and the kinetic energy required to reach such an orbit.
First, let's define some constants:
Mass of the object (m): 1 ounce = 0.0283495 kg
Gravitational constant (G): 6.67430×10−11 m3kg−1s−26.67430×10−11m3kg−1s−2
Mass of the Earth (MEE): 5.972×1024 kg5.972×1024kg
Radius of the Earth (REE): 6.371×106 m6.371×106m
Distance from the Earth to the Sun (RSS): 1.496×1011 m1.496×1011m
Mass of the Sun (MSS): 1.989×1030 kg1.989×1030kg
Step-by-Step Calculation:
Escape Velocity from Earth:
The escape velocity (vescesc) from Earth is given by:
vesc=2GMERE
vesc=RE2GME
Kinetic Energy to Escape Earth:
The kinetic energy (KEescesc) required to reach escape velocity is:
KEesc=12mvesc2
KEesc=21mvesc2
Gravitational Potential Energy Change:
The gravitational potential energy (Uchangechange) required to move the object from Earth's surface to a point in orbit around the Sun is:
ΔU=−G(MEmRE+MSmRS)
ΔU=−G(REMEm+RSMSm)
(Note: This accounts for both escaping Earth's gravity and moving into orbit around the Sun.)
Total Energy Required:
The total energy required is the sum of the kinetic energy to escape Earth and the change in gravitational potential energy:
Etotal=KEesc+ΔU
Etotal=KEesc+ΔU
Let's calculate this step by step:
1. Escape Velocity from Earth:
vesc=2⋅6.67430×10−11⋅5.972×10246.371×106
vesc=6.371×1062⋅6.67430×10−11⋅5.972×1024
2. Kinetic Energy to Escape Earth:
KEesc=12⋅0.0283495⋅vesc2
KEesc=21⋅0.0283495⋅vesc2
3. Gravitational Potential Energy Change:
ΔU=−6.67430×10−11(5.972×1024⋅0.02834956.371×106+1.989×1030⋅0.02834951.496×1011)
ΔU=−6.67430×10−11(6.371×1065.972×1024⋅0.0283495+1.496×10111.989×1030⋅0.0283495)
4. Total Energy Required:
Etotal=KEesc+ΔU
Etotal=KEesc+ΔU
Let's compute these values.
Here are the results of the calculations:
Escape Velocity from Earth: 11,185.98 m/s11,185.98m/s
Kinetic Energy to Escape Earth: 1,773,631.21 Joules1,773,631.21Joules
Gravitational Potential Energy Change: −26,930,368.64 Joules−26,930,368.64Joules
Total Energy Required: −25,156,737.43 Joules−25,156,737.43Joules
The negative total energy indicates that more energy is released (due to the potential energy change) than is required to escape Earth's gravity. This result might seem counterintuitive, but it reflects the fact that placing an object into orbit around the Sun requires overcoming Earth's gravity and then leveraging the Sun's gravity to maintain an orbit.
Therefore, it would take approximately 25,156,737.43 Joules of energy to put one ounce of material into orbit around the Sun from Earth.
So how much energy is that? Well, it's about the amount of energy a 60 watt light bulb uses in 116 hours or about 1/4 the energy consumed by the average American household in a day. That might not sound like a lot but that number is for once single ounce of material. Our 500 trillion ton comet that you want to act like isn't all that much material is 16,000,000,000,000,000,000 ounces. That's sixteen quintillion ounces.
If we do the math, that's 402.5 septillion joules of energy it would take to put 500 trillion tons of material into orbit around the Sun from the Earth. That's about 670 MILLION times the total annual energy consumption of the entire world, or 1.92 BILLION times the energy of the largest nuclear bomb ever tested. And that's just the energy that would have acted (almost instantaneously by the way) on that 500 trillion tons of material. It doesn't account at all for all the wasted energy that was spent spewing material in every direction other than that which would have allowed anything to end up in any sort of orbit around anything at all.
I'm telling ya. It just could not have happened that way!
Have you not watched this video?
Especially here:
Again, appeals to the stone are not a good argument.
I've watched the videos (it's been a while) and I have no idea what "appeal to the stone" even means. I'm appealing to orbital mechanics and good old fashioned Newtonian laws of physics.
I believe that Dr. Brown (and Bryan Nickel) have sufficiently explained the appropriate forces and actions required for explaining all of this.
All I've ever seen Dr. Brown do is theorize that it happened and postulated the release of super critical water as the power source. I've been skeptical of this particular point right from the very first time I read it. It simply would require far too much energy. The energy source is irrelevant. If you set off every atomic bomb that currently exists on Earth at once under a mass of material equivalent to even one single comet, the vast majority of the material would vaporize, the rest would be flung all over the planet with maybe a smidge making it into space only to fall straight back down again and some tiny percentage MIGHT end up in orbit around the Earth and not one single gram of it would end up in orbit around the Sun. It's just not possible.
www.bnl.gov
