If you don't want to discuss this, you don't have to. I'm trying to get Aimiel to see the truth. God willing, Eventually he will see the truth. God can open the eyes of the blind. I keep praying for him.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
If you don't want to discuss this, you don't have to. I'm trying to get Aimiel to see the truth. God willing, Eventually he will see the truth. God can open the eyes of the blind. I keep praying for him.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Whatever... you're incapable of understanding or you would understand the simple Truths explained in The Holy Scriptures regarding the fate of sinners. It isn't an end of existence which is suffered in the Lake of Fire or the Bible would say so. It is eternal conscious torment just like The Word of God says. Please stop lying about God's Holy Word. They suffer the same fate as demons, and it is torment for ever and ever.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
No rest day or night doesn't say that they will be put to death by being burned. It takes only a few seconds for fire to kill. They will not be killed but will suffer eternally, quite obviously.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
No rest day or night doesn't say that they will be put to death by being burned. It takes only a few seconds for fire to kill. They will not be killed but will suffer eternally, quite obviously.
Aimiel
Well-known member
You need to look in the mirror when you say such nonsense. :duh:
According to the bible the wages of sin is death.
Now tell me, What is the wages of sin, according to the Bible? Death or eternal conscious torment. Are you capable of understanding this? I told you the answer. The answer is in Romans 6:23. The wages of sin is death. Can you understand this simple truth? What is the wages of sin, according to the Bible?
a. Death
b. Eternal Conscious Torment
(The answer is a. Death)
Are you capable of repeating the correct answer after I just told you what it is and where to find it?
I will continue to pray for you, that God will open your eyes so that you can see what is plainly written in His Word. I will continue to tell you what is written in God's Word so that when God opens your eyes you will see it. Read John 3:16 and tell me the two possible fates for humans. Whoever believes in him will not PERISH, but will have eternal life. The two possible outcomes are PERISHING or HAVING ETERNAL LIFE. Having eternal life in hell being tormented is not one of the options God gives us.
I am not really surprised that the message seems like foolishness to you. The Bible says that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. I hope that you are not perishing, but I can't assume that. I want you to have eternal life with Christ, and I hope that you do.
Aimiel
Well-known member
If you wish to shut your eyes to Truth, you're on your own. If you continue to ignore the clear words written in The Holy Scriptures, you will be sorry. God will not reward you for such nonsense, but He just might have to shorten your life so that you won't lose your salvation, since you've apparently abandoned reason. He won't be separating the sheep from the goats so that the goats can be put back to death, but they will partake of the 'second death' as He called the Lake of Fire, where eternal conscious torments will be commuted to every single Power, Principality, Ruler of the Darkness of this World and even every single human being sent there. You cannot understand something that you shut your eyes to. When you use scissors on your Bible, you darken your own understanding. When you do that, you tend to lead His sheep astray. Be careful what you teach. You're in severe error.
How about we talk about being with God forever (believers) or being separated from God in selfish, conscious rebellion forever (unbelievers).
Universalism and annihilationism and post-mortem conversion and purgatory and inclusivism, etc. are all unbiblical views.
It is time to quit entertaining Tim and his wrong views. He is recalcitrant in his view despite evidence contrary to it (he thinks begging the question with his definition of death, punishment, destruction is definitive, but it is not, since words have a semantical range of meaning...I want a biblical, theological understanding, not a wiki one).
Oh brother. Pray for those who reject the gospel, God, Christ, not those who differ on a peripheral debate that you are wrong on:deadhorse:
Well, I did give my views on this earlier in the thread (which by the way basically support you). I was just commenting on how long it has been going on. Surely if you cannot say what you mean in maybe 6 to 10 posts on a complicated subject, then it is because you are not communicating well.
I think the reason this has gone on so long is because Aimiel and Gldfulz refuse to accept what the Bible says preferring to cling to their tradition. Obviously the biblical view is that the wages of sin is death. If they could accept this nothing more would be needed to be said.
All views involve proof text interpretation and paradigm. I know that one can be spiritually dead, yet conscious, so why not eternally dead and conscious (death is separation, not cessation; soul lives on, not ceases).
Not all tradition is false. Anti-trinitarians try to use the same lame argument, but are dead wrong in their position. To think that there is no support for the traditional view in Scripture is scholastically dishonest. To assume your arguments are decisive/compelling is myopic arrogant ignorance.
Keep on insulting me. That just proves your character. It also shows the emptiness of your false doctrine. Jesus said that we could tell a false teacher by the fruit they produce. A bad tree can't produce good fruit. You can't stop insulting me because it is your nature to insult. A Christian's nature is love.
Cultists would say the same thing. Standing against your error is not unloving. You are bullying us into accepting your views against our biblical conscience.
Biblical, historical, orthodox view. Glad not everyone is compromising with modern winds and fads.
I never said that hell wasn't forever. I said that the Bible says that the wages of sin is death. And it is. So why do you want to misrepresent what I believe? Is that easier than trying to understand?
You say the consequences of annihilation are forever, not the existence of a place with conscious people. He has your number.
It is clear that you simply do not understand the doctrine of Conditional Immortality and that is the reason you disagree with it.
If the doctrine was what you CLAIM it is, I wouldn't believe it either. Jesus said that the road is wide that leads to destruction and narrow that leads to life. I believe him. The only 2 options are destruction or eternal life. I'm sorry that you can't understand this.