Sure folk who hate God without a cause are not gunna be together with those who love Him...it is the most perfect logic I know.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Define folk who 'hate God'. Just an empty soundbite otherwise not to mention arrogant. Any answer as to how a man in fire would ask for a drop of water for his tongue?
I don't have the same attitude toward scripture as you either "they hated Me without a reason" or the "drop of water." I believe those things and I see that is how people are.
Folks are quite friendly until you speak to them about repentance and faith in Christ....nobody hates me personally but they do hate Christ and His message...then they hate me.
Folks are quite friendly until you speak to them about repentance and faith in Christ....nobody hates me personally but they do hate Christ and His message...then they hate me.
You just rationalize away the verses. All truth is not in one proof text, so we rely on cumulative evidence from all relevant verses.
Rev. 20:10-15
The reality is worse than the symbol. The passage must be consistent with spiritual reality/truth or Jesus is a deceptive false teacher who is doctrinally incorrect.
A related root heresy is dying the continuation of the person (regenerate/unregenerate) after death (soul sleep error). This does not mean we accept Platonic soul immortality ideas.
Doctrinal error is becoming rampant in the church. It is possible to sincerely hold to their view, but I believe it is a compromise that should be rejected.
Thanks, It does make me happy to be on God's side. According to the Bible, the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. I'll believe God's Word. If it makes you happy to believe that God sends people to hell where they are tortured alive day and night forever, then go ahead and believe that. The definition of a sadist is someone who gets happy at the thought of another person's misery. Go ahead and compare me to a special education child. At least I don't derive pleasure from the misery of others, as you do.
How is it slithering to answer your posts? This is very offensive, so I reported it. I do not slither, I answer.
If you believe that God tortures people in hell forever when they die, post the verse that says this. Do not slither away. Stand up straight and post the verse that backs up your claim that people go to hell when they die where they are tormented alive forever while they are dead.
Nobody here has claimed that the wicked will have eternal life with God. The wicked will perish and will be no more because the wages of sin is death. You twisted what I've said around completely. This is a perfect straw man fallacy.
So you admit that there is not one verse in the entire Bible that agrees with your doctrine. The Bible was written over a 1500 year period by 40 people inspired by God, and in all that time not one prophet wrote anything that agrees with your doctrine, but you believe it anyway? Doesn't that raise red flags for you?
There is not one verse that agrees with you, but you think that if you add up all of the verses that do not agree with you, you get a doctrine that does agree with you?
Okay, I'm challenging you to walk me through this.
You can't even produce one verse that agrees with you, but string a few verses together, and prove to me that the wages of sin is not death, as the Bible says, but eternal conscious torment in hell instead.
Do not slither away from this challenge. If the Bible supports your false doctrine, show me.
Aimiel
Well-known member
I've quoted many verses which describe hell, but you deny they mean what they mean.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
If you can't understand, I can't help you. It's plain to see.
Who told you that God tortures people?....that is the devil speaking, why does this one doctrine drive you?
I believe you are being driven by a doctrine of the devil, that is not an insult but what I truly believe, you can report it, ol' Knighty has backed you up in the past and he may do so again...but I am telling you the truth.
Many verses? Isn't it more true to say you quoted one passage? And even that passage does not say that the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever.
But why do you refuse to deal with any of the verses I've given in support of the gospel? How do you read Romans 6:23 and come away believing that the wages of sin is NOT death? That seems bizarre to me. If there was a verse in the Bible that said "For the wages of sin is eternal torment in hell", I would have no other option but to believe it. But there is a verse in the Bible that says "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." You have no other option, but to believe that the wages of sin is death or disbelieve the Bible.
It appears that you are simply stubbornly hanging onto your false belief in spite of what the Bible says.
Is it a doctrine of the devil to believe the Bible which says that the wicked shall perish or is it a doctrine of the devil to believe the devil who said "surely you will not die"?
The doctrine of Eternal life in hell in torment agrees with the devil's statement "Surely you will not die". The doctrine that the wages of sin is death agrees with God's Word.
I'm sorry that you have fallen for the devil's lie, but I am only telling you what the Bible says.
That is a very good question.
Since the doctrine of eternal torment is the doctrine that the Church got wrong, it is important to try to correct it, using solid scripture. If the Church taught that we could purchase eternal life for $19.95 a month, wouldn't you want to point out that eternal life only comes from faith in Jesus Christ? Since there is no scripture supporting the false dogma of ECT, I feel that I have to at least point it out. Since there is SO MUCH scripture that supports the doctrine that the penalty for sin is death, I feel compelled to shine the light of truth into the dark corners of the Church. Satan's lie is that everyone will live forever. The truth is that the wages of sin is death, but we can be set free from the death penalty by faith in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.
It is the devil's doctrine to say that God will not raise the dead for judgement and for the wicked to be turned away into everlasting PUNISHMENT, death is not everlasting punishment.
That is to say to the wicked "peace be with you...it will be well with you at the last" The scriptures say that the wicked will long for death but it will be denied them.
How is saying the wicked will be destroyed the same thing as saying to the wicked "peace be with you"?
You are not making any sense. I am not saying the wicked will not be raised for judgment. In fact, I am claiming the exact OPPOSITE of that. 2 Corinthians 5 says that everyone will have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ. The scriptures clearly state that the wages of sin is death. The wicked are judged and then pay the penalty of destruction. The eternal punishment is death. There is no resurrection from the second death, the second death is eternal. It is the eternal punishment.
There is no verse in the entire Bible that says the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tormented alive forever while they are dead.
does he tell the truth?
Genesis 3:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Genesis 3:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: