Is the Bible the only sacred texts and why or why not.

popsthebuilder

New member
You called on the Jesus of the Holy Bible, the Son of God.
The Christ seems interchangable with the Son, but it doesn't mean son so much as anointed.

I called on GOD, and Christ, and most likely the name Jesus as well. I did not call on the Son of GOD, as I knew nothing about the concept.

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meshak

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Banned
The Christ seems interchangable with the Son, but it doesn't mean son so much as anointed.

I called on GOD, and Christ, and most likely the name Jesus as well. I did not call on the Son of GOD, as I knew nothing about the concept.

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do you believe Jesus said He is the way?
 

Bright Raven

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Is that what it says in the bible?

You know you can't really use the same book to verify the validity of that book right?

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Wrong!

From thegospelcoalition.org

“You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.”

I have heard this statement many times. It can come from Christians or non-Christians, but mainly I hear from unbelievers that the Bible is inadmissible as evidence for itself. If I were trying to use the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible (from the perspective of many outsiders), this is circular reasoning. But this statement is not only wrong, but completely misunderstands its own argument; ironically, it makes the exact circular assumptions that it accuses believers of.

The Bible Is Not One Book

The argument is meant to place Christians in this rather odd situation where they sound like they are saying the Bible is true because it says it is true. But the Bible is not one book. In fact, the term “Bible” is not in the Bible. The Bible is a collection of works that spans more than a thousand years, written by dozens of authors, some who are connected, some who are not. Altogether there are 66 books in the Protestant Bible.

When we are referring to the claims of the New Testament we are talking about the story of Christianity, the very foundation and apex of Christianity as it deals with the incarnation of Christ, who he was, and what he did. But even then, to say one can't prove the New Testament with the New Testament is quite ill-informed and unreflective. The designation “New Testament” (along with its list of books) is not even in the New Testament. As with the entire Bible, it is just a name given to a certain related corpus of writings that speaks about the story and implications of the advent of Jesus Christ.

Does the claim mean we cannot use the testimony in Matthew as supporting evidence for Mark? Or can it mean that one cannot attempt to piece together Galatians with Acts? From the perspective of a historian, the claim that we cannot use the Bible to prove or evidence the Bible is completely misguided. There are 27 books in the New Testament, all written around the same time and all telling similar stories. Each book can therefore be used to prove or provide evidence each of the other documents in the New Testament.

Assumption of Inspiration

If a person says, “You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible,” he probably doesn't realize he is borrowing from the Christian worldview in order to even make such an assertion. He assumes the idea of the basic unity of Scripture or the single-authorship of the Bible. The only way to say the Bible can't prove the Bible is to presume that Scripture has a single authorial source. Otherwise, there is no reason to link the canon of Scripture together in such a way.

For the non-Christian especially, the Bible should be seen as 66 ancient documents, all of which stand or fall on their own. In order to assess them as one document one must assume a single authorship of some sort.

Many Books, Multiple Testimonies

As testimonial sources, the 27 documents called the New Testament are unparalleled in ancient history. The contemporary multiple attestations for the story of Jesus (eyewitness or not) are without equal. Examine the sources we have for other ancient historical events and people and you will find that they have nowhere near the number of documented writings discussing the central claims.

In contrast, when it comes to the claims about Christ, we are talking about 27 documents in the New Testament alone. And all of these come within 60 to 70 years after the events. And if you expand the data beyond just Scripture and allow extra-biblical sources to be considered, then we are talking about dozens and dozens more from early church fathers (whose testimonies cannot be ignored simply because they were believers) and from ancient historians such as Tacitus and Josephus.

The story of Christ has plenty of independent documentation, all of which proves or provides evidence for the rest. Because of this when we use the Bible to prove the Bible we are merely acting as historians.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Wrong!

From thegospelcoalition.org

“You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible.”

I have heard this statement many times. It can come from Christians or non-Christians, but mainly I hear from unbelievers that the Bible is inadmissible as evidence for itself. If I were trying to use the Bible to prove the validity of the Bible (from the perspective of many outsiders), this is circular reasoning. But this statement is not only wrong, but completely misunderstands its own argument; ironically, it makes the exact circular assumptions that it accuses believers of.

The Bible Is Not One Book

The argument is meant to place Christians in this rather odd situation where they sound like they are saying the Bible is true because it says it is true. But the Bible is not one book. In fact, the term “Bible” is not in the Bible. The Bible is a collection of works that spans more than a thousand years, written by dozens of authors, some who are connected, some who are not. Altogether there are 66 books in the Protestant Bible.

When we are referring to the claims of the New Testament we are talking about the story of Christianity, the very foundation and apex of Christianity as it deals with the incarnation of Christ, who he was, and what he did. But even then, to say one can't prove the New Testament with the New Testament is quite ill-informed and unreflective. The designation “New Testament” (along with its list of books) is not even in the New Testament. As with the entire Bible, it is just a name given to a certain related corpus of writings that speaks about the story and implications of the advent of Jesus Christ.

Does the claim mean we cannot use the testimony in Matthew as supporting evidence for Mark? Or can it mean that one cannot attempt to piece together Galatians with Acts? From the perspective of a historian, the claim that we cannot use the Bible to prove or evidence the Bible is completely misguided. There are 27 books in the New Testament, all written around the same time and all telling similar stories. Each book can therefore be used to prove or provide evidence each of the other documents in the New Testament.

Assumption of Inspiration

If a person says, “You can't use the Bible to prove the Bible,” he probably doesn't realize he is borrowing from the Christian worldview in order to even make such an assertion. He assumes the idea of the basic unity of Scripture or the single-authorship of the Bible. The only way to say the Bible can't prove the Bible is to presume that Scripture has a single authorial source. Otherwise, there is no reason to link the canon of Scripture together in such a way.

For the non-Christian especially, the Bible should be seen as 66 ancient documents, all of which stand or fall on their own. In order to assess them as one document one must assume a single authorship of some sort.

Many Books, Multiple Testimonies

As testimonial sources, the 27 documents called the New Testament are unparalleled in ancient history. The contemporary multiple attestations for the story of Jesus (eyewitness or not) are without equal. Examine the sources we have for other ancient historical events and people and you will find that they have nowhere near the number of documented writings discussing the central claims.

In contrast, when it comes to the claims about Christ, we are talking about 27 documents in the New Testament alone. And all of these come within 60 to 70 years after the events. And if you expand the data beyond just Scripture and allow extra-biblical sources to be considered, then we are talking about dozens and dozens more from early church fathers (whose testimonies cannot be ignored simply because they were believers) and from ancient historians such as Tacitus and Josephus.

The story of Christ has plenty of independent documentation, all of which proves or provides evidence for the rest. Because of this when we use the Bible to prove the Bible we are merely acting as historians.
So are you going to show where the bible claims the bible is the only way to be found of Christ of saved or good with GOD?

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Bright Raven

Well-known member
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So are you going to show where the bible claims the bible is the only way to be found of Christ of saved or good with GOD?

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John 14:6 New International Version (NIV)

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
 

God's Truth

New member
Is that what it says in the bible?

You know you can't really use the same book to verify the validity of that book right?

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Jesus tells us how to know if his words are true.

If you do everything he says, then he would reveal it to you.

You double speak about the Holy Bible, but you protect and defend the Qur'an.

You make all kinds of excuses for the Qur'an, but you put suspicion and doubt on the Bible when you say it has errors.
 

God's Truth

New member
So you think the Spirit of GOD can actually die?

And actually, it refers to GOD and His messenger is if one and the same.

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The God of the Qur'an is not the same God of the Holy Bible.

The God of the Qur'an does NOT have a Son.

The God of the Bible has a Son.

It is also not the same Jesus.
 

God's Truth

New member
The Christ seems interchangable with the Son, but it doesn't mean son so much as anointed.

I called on GOD, and Christ, and most likely the name Jesus as well. I did not call on the Son of GOD, as I knew nothing about the concept.

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You said that you had been to church in America. What Christian church did you go to that did not say the Son Jesus Christ?

If you call on Jesus of the Holy Bible, you are calling on the Son of God, whether you know it or not.

You did not call on the Jesus of the Qur'an because you did not yet even know of him.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Jesus tells us how to know if his words are true.

If you do everything he says, then he would reveal it to you.

You double speak about the Holy Bible, but you protect and defend the Qur'an.

You make all kinds of excuses for the Qur'an, but you put suspicion and doubt on the Bible when you say it has errors.
What?

Where did I say the bible has error?

Show it to me please

A little trigger happy too I see

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God's Truth

New member
That says nothing near "the bible is the way and the life".

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Read this, it is about how the writing from the Old Testament has been revealed:

Romans 16:25-27 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.


The words from the Old Testament speaks of Jesus.

The words from the New Testament are the prophecies from the Old Testament revealed.

Read these scriptures, it is about how what is written is so that one can be saved:

John 20:30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.


The Bible speaks of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and how the Bible is the written words of God, as prophesied in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament goes back farther then the Qur'an.

Here are more scriptures to help you understand that the Bible is the way in written form to bring us to God:

Luke 1:1-4 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

As 2 Peter 1:20-21 says. Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

The apostles from the New Testament received all the truth we need to guide us to eternal life. All we need to guide us to eternal life is written down in the Scriptures: John 16:13; 2 Peter 1:3; Acts 20:20, 27; Matthew 28:20; I Corinthians 14:37; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
You said that you had been to church in America. What Christian church did you go to that did not say the Son Jesus Christ?

If you call on Jesus of the Holy Bible, you are calling on the Son of God, whether you know it or not.

You did not call on the Jesus of the Qur'an because you did not yet even know of him.

I don't know what type of church. I don't recall much about it....that's kinda my point.

I'm pretty sure calling on GOD alone, or Christ, would have equated to the same.



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God's Truth

New member
What?

Where did I say the bible has error?

Show it to me please

A little trigger happy too I see

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You don't see the truth if you want to claim I am trigger happy.
You are trying to demean me and it is not very good of you.

You are the one who said where does the Bible say it is the only way.

I told you that the Bible says Jesus is the Son of God and that the Qur'an says he is not.

So which book and which God are you going to believe in?
 

popsthebuilder

New member
You don't see the truth if you want to claim I am trigger happy.
You are trying to demean me and it is not very good of you.

You are the one who said where does the Bible say it is the only way.

I told you that the Bible says Jesus is the Son of God and that the Qur'an says he is not.

So which book and which God are you going to believe in?
Christ is the way.

Not the bible, or any other singular book, or culmination of books, or all books ever written.

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God's Truth

New member
I don't know what type of church. I don't recall much about it....that's kinda my point.

I'm pretty sure calling on GOD alone, or Christ, would have equated to the same.



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No, not the same.

Do you have a son? If I say you do not is that truth or a false statement?
 
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