Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?

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This passage has clearly never been fulfilled.

Ezek 37:21-28 (AKJV/PCE)​
(37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (37:25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. (37:26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (37:27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (37:28) And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
  • They have not been "gathered on every side".
  • They do not have "one king to them all".
  • They do not possess the "land that God gave to Jacob" (that includes ALL of the land that God gave to Jacob and not just the part that they currently possess).
  • God has not made a "covenant of peace" with them.
  • God's sanctuary is not "in the midst of them".
 

Bladerunner

Active member
In a lot of ways it's rather annoying that the nation of Israel was gone for a time. Had the Romans not wiped it from the map and they had continued to exist as a country for the last 2000 years, it would be a lot easier to convey the point here. That point being that the modern state of Israel is in no better shape spiritually now than it was when God cut down the fruitless fig tree a year or so after Pentecost. In short, Ezekiel 37 may or may not have any application to modern day Israel.
One has to remember that when Jesus entered Jerusalem on that faithful day, Blinded them until the fullness of the Gentiles. To this date, they are still blinded and do not as a nation believe that Jesus Christ was or is their Mashach Nagid. However, there are individual Jews who have become messianic (believe in Jesus Christ). They are also part of the Church that Jesus built as you and I are.
I'm curious about something. Let's say that it does have direct application to modern Israel and that their becoming a nation again in 1948 was a partial fulfillment of this prophesy;
For 2000 years, the nation of Israel was scattered across the earth as prophecy gave us. Until May 14, 1948, the day Israel declared themselves to be a Nation, the Roman Empire, and the Ottoman Turks ruled the land for some 500 years until 1701.
the prophecy also speaks of spiritual awakening, where God gives His Spirit to Israel (Ezekiel 37:14); do you believe that also has been fulfilled or is that yet future, and if yet future then what do you suppose that spiritual awakening will look like?
The spiritual rebirth of Israel you speak of is found in Ezekial 36:22-28. This is known as the "New Covenant" which applies to both Jew and Gentile (inherited). The application of this begins in Rev 12 :1-18 and ends at the beginning of the Millennium where Jesus will place the New Covenant in the hearts of all the Jewish survivors (the Remnant of Israel). They will live in Israel (all of it from the Euphrates to the Nile, etc.)and rule the earth with Jesus Christ as the High Priest and King on King David's throne.
Are they to become believers in Christ who practice their religion in keeping with what is described in the book of Hebrews (i.e. no animal sacrifices, etc) or are they to be practicing Jews with all the commensurate temple worship and ritualistic practices?
Keep in mind that the Book of Hebrews, written by Paul, is about Salvation. Paul's words are to Believers, every man among them. The details of the millennium are minimum at best. the 50 mile x 50 mile temple not made by human hands will serve the whole earth. It is my belief that they will return to earlier times, farming, etc. The religion will be different in this period of time (dispensation) as the "Everlasting Gospel" will prevail upon all who are alive on earth (as mortals). There is very little given about this new Gospel but my guess would be that it is in some form as the Laws of Moses without sacrifices. The Earth during this time will be restored to the earth in the early years of the Patriarchs where everyone that comes to believe (Gentiles) will live for the full 1000 years. Everyone will have to visit Israel once per year, they will receive no rain for the next year. Most of the information of the millennium will come from the prophecies of the OT...and have yet to be fullfilled as are the majority of the prophecies for last days.
 

Clete

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RD has been saying the Israel today is not the one spoken of by the prophets. If he hasn’t been saying that, you sure could have fooled me. Then Idolator said the same.
You must be reading something into what they've said. They don't deny that these people are Jews at all. There have always been a people whom we today call the Jews, but that doesn't mean that the nation of Israel has always existed.

Not a zombie version of Israel, but the physical descendants of Israel. The land has been prepared, they have been gathering back into their land, and finally were recognized by all nations as the nation of Israel.
And you think any political entity in that location and that calls itself Israel fulfills biblical prophecy on that basis alone?

Yes, in Ezekiel they are seen as dry bones….no spirit in them when they’re gathered.
Ezekiel 37:13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”​

Seems like God puts His Spirit in them BEFORE He places them in their land, or at least concurrently, does He not?

The passage goes on to talk about Israel having one and only one king. How does that fit with modern Israel which isn't even a kingdom? Do you take that portion of the prophesy to have been fulfilled with king David? If so, why not the entire passage along with it?

Of course Christ will sit on David's throne and so that would be one yet future fulfillment but that isn't happening until after the Tribulation period where there's tons of dead Jews all over the place and others that have been scattered to the winds and many could plausibly be expected to say "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ (vs. 11) at which point a much more direct fulfillment of this entire passage could take place without any reference whatsoever to modern day nation of Israel.

The prophets spoke of unbelievers and believers alike. The judgements against Israel were all told them before hand by the prophets. I would also add, the Jews are God’s chosen people even though they have rejected their Messiah.
The lack of belief (faith) is the missing fruit that Jesus was likening to absent figs when He came upon the barren fig tree. The nation of Israel was thus cut off because of unbelief (Romans 9). God is not going to become their King if they continue in that unbelief.

Yeah, every generation. I agree with that. However, if we look at Daniel, we can’t help but see the time is super close.

Daniel 12:4. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The birth pangs have never been this obvious. Travel in the last 200 years alone. From horses and boats to supersonic jets and submarines. Technology where everyone can SEE what’s going on all over the world at the same time. And knowledge has increased exponentially. So fast, in fact, we can’t keep up with it. Yep that baby is about to be born. That transition we’ve all been waiting for.
Well, I certainly hope you're right but I was saying these same exact things, practically verbatim, back in the mid 1980s before the internet even existed.
 

Clete

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One has to remember that when Jesus entered Jerusalem on that faithful day, Blinded them until the fullness of the Gentiles. To this date, they are still blinded and do not as a nation believe that Jesus Christ was or is their Mashach Nagid. However, there are individual Jews who have become messianic (believe in Jesus Christ). They are also part of the Church that Jesus built as you and I are.
I agree that Messianic Jews are Christians but only just barely so in most cases. Most of them all but totally ignore the writings of Paul (and thereby the gospel of grace) and are up to their necks in legalism and religious ritual. All such works will be burned up on that great day, they themselves will be saved but as through fire (I Cor. 9-15).

As for Israel being blinded, that did not happen during Jesus' Earthly ministry. If the timeline Jesus gave at the Barren Fig Tree is any indication, which I believe it is, then the cutting off of Israel and therefore their blindness would have happened about a year or so after the Fig Tree (Israel) was "fertilized" by the giving of the Holy Spirit during Israel's "Feast of Weeks" (Pentecost).

For 2000 years, the nation of Israel was scattered across the earth as prophecy gave us. Until May 14, 1948, the day Israel declared themselves to be a Nation, the Roman Empire, and the Ottoman Turks ruled the land for some 500 years until 1701.
There's a prophesy about Israel being scattered across the Earth for 2000 years? Where is that one at?

The spiritual rebirth of Israel you speak of is found in Ezekial 36:22-28.
Actually, Ezekiel 37:11-14

This is known as the "New Covenant" which applies to both Jew and Gentile (inherited). The application of this begins in Rev 12 :1-18 and ends at the beginning of the Millennium where Jesus will place the New Covenant in the hearts of all the Jewish survivors (the Remnant of Israel). They will live in Israel (all of it from the Euphrates to the Nile, etc.)and rule the earth with Jesus Christ as the High Priest and King on King David's throne.
God's covenant is not with Gentiles but with the nation of Israel. The nations of Jesus will rule over are those that He will have concurred and anyone who is not a Jew by birth will not be in covenant relationship with God unless and until they become a proselyte Jew and submit themselves to Moses (minus the blood sacrifices and other similar rituals that were a shadow of THE sacrifice of Christ).

Keep in mind that the Book of Hebrews, written by Paul, is about Salvation.
Hebrews was most certainly not written by Paul.

There are several reasons we can know this, not the least of which are things like the style of writing as well as details like how the author Hebrew quotes the Septuagint in ways that are inconsistent with the known writings of Paul but by far the most important reason, the reason the proves it without any question is the fact that the author of Hebrews refers to receiving the gospel second-hand....

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him​

This not only states that the author was not an eyewitness of Christ or His direct teachings but directly contradicts Paul when he states explicitly that he didn't get what he repeatedly called "his [my] gospel" from anyone other than directly from the risen Lord Jesus Christ Himself and makes a big deal about how he didn't even confer with the Twelve to the point of insisting "before God" that he was not lying about it....
Galatians 1:11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and destroyed it. 14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.​
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.​
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. 20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)​
21 Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. 22 And I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ. 23 But they were hearing only, “He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once tried to destroy.” 24 And they glorified God in me.​

One additional point that further establishes that the book of Hebrews was written by someone other than Paul (perhaps Luke?) is that Paul had made a very clear agreement with Peter, James and John that he would minister to the Gentiles while they remained in Jerusalem and would minister to Israel (i.e. the Hebrews).

Galatians 2:6 But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. 7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles), 9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.​

So, I say it again, based on Paul's own testimony, the book of Hebrews was most certainly not written by Paul!

Paul's words are to Believers, every man among them.
After a great deal of study, and meticulous examination of the available evidence, it has been determined that the book of Hebrews was written to....

wait for it....

THE HEBREWS!

😇 (That really is intended to be light hearted and not snarky!)

The details of the millennium are minimum at best. the 50 mile x 50 mile temple not made by human hands will serve the whole earth. It is my belief that they will return to earlier times, farming, etc. The religion will be different in this period of time (dispensation) as the "Everlasting Gospel" will prevail upon all who are alive on earth (as mortals). There is very little given about this new Gospel but my guess would be that it is in some form as the Laws of Moses without sacrifices. The Earth during this time will be restored to the earth in the early years of the Patriarchs where everyone that comes to believe (Gentiles) will live for the full 1000 years. Everyone will have to visit Israel once per year, they will receive no rain for the next year. Most of the information of the millennium will come from the prophecies of the OT...and have yet to be fullfilled as are the majority of the prophecies for last days.
I used to be very well versed in all such details. I practically lived and breathed end times theology. It's sort of lost it's "magic" (for want of a better term) for me over the years. What I know with certainty is that I won't be around to experience any of it and I suspect that I will be rather occupied by other concerns during this Earth's final millennium.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
I agree that Messianic Jews are Christians but only just barely so in most cases. Most of them all but totally ignore the writings of Paul (and thereby the gospel of grace) and are up to their necks in legalism and religious ritual. All such works will be burned up on that great day, they themselves will be saved but as through fire (I Cor. 9-15).
I would firmly agree with you.

They accept Jesus as the Messiah, but then behave as if there was no dispensational change since Jesus' earthly ministry.
 

Clete

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I would firmly agree with you.

They accept Jesus as the Messiah, but then behave as if there was no dispensational change since Jesus' earthly ministry.
Yes, I've met a couple of them over the years. All they seem to want to talk about is observing this or that sabbath, including all the feasts and all the rich symbolism contained in the various rituals performed during each of them.

There is indeed much to learn from the study of such things but they are all but obsessed with not only studying it but observing and performing it all, not to mention lording over everyone they find who doesn't believe such things are needed any longer.

What's interesting is that they make arguments that VERY few Christians have any prayer of overcoming. Any church that dunks believers in water or asks their members to tithe has any chance of winning a debate against them as to why they shouldn't be meeting on Saturday, avoiding unclean foods and observing all of the various feasts of Israel. They take advantage of the toe that most Christians stick in the waters of the law and use it to try and drown them in an ocean of legalism.

I'm reminded of the World Wide Church of God which wasn't a Messianic Jewish thing at all but did teach that Christians should observe all the Feasts and had an eschatology identical to much of what has been discussed on this thread but that also taught that the Catholic Church was the "Great Whore" in Revelation and other wacky things. The point being that when it came to their Saturday sabbath observance and Feast observances and the arguments they made in favor of such practices, you couldn't tell them from any Messianic Jew.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's people TODAY are the body of Christ and not the nation of Israel (nor the Jewish people).

They were His people and they will be again... once the body of Christ is removed.

You continue to ignore LO-AMMI... when does the LO-AMMI occur? What period of time does it cover?
I do find it interesting how you keep on about LoAmmi. Respectfully, though, you seem to be forgetting something important. As angry as the Lord was with Israel, He never divorced them, and that is shown here In Hosea. God used Hosea’s marriage to show, not only Israel’s unfaithfulness, but His own faithfulness. The threat was clearly just that as shown here in Hosea 3 where God tells him to go buy her back. He was faithful even when we are not. Gomer hadn’t changed her ways, she was yet unfaithful.

Then said the Lord unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the Lord toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.

He does speak later, too, about God preparing the land for their return, which is interesting, as well as their future return.
So the names are interesting, but the faithfulness of the husband is what stands out to me. Besides, divorce is against the law.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Israel today will be decimated except for the remnant. Doesn’t mean they aren’t God’s chosen people.

Question was really more about where is He going to sit if He returns today? He's not going to be Prime Minister, He's going to be King, and where is David's throne? Modern Israel is a constitutional republic, and not even a constitutional monarchy with a figurehead throne, there is no throne in Israel rn.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Question was really more about where is He going to sit if He returns today? He's not going to be Prime Minister, He's going to be King, and where is David's throne? Modern Israel is a constitutional republic, and not even a constitutional monarchy with a figurehead throne, there is no throne in Israel rn.
He isn’t returning today unless it’s with the Trumpet Voice calling us up for the rapture.

Then will come the Great Tribulation and governments aren’t going to matter. God will step in just before mankind destroys this place, and our Lord God will construct His own throne, I’m sure. 😊
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
God's people TODAY are the body of Christ and not the nation of Israel (nor the Jewish people).

Where do you see we are the people of God?
They were His people and they will be again... once the body of Christ is removed.

They never ceased being God’s people. The sun moon and stars are still there, aren’t they?
You continue to ignore LO-AMMI... when does the LO-AMMI occur? What period of time does it cover?
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

God has not cast away His people, they are in time out, and He has healed their land in preparation of their return….done, and He has drawn them from being scattered, causing the land and it’s people to blossom. That fig tree has blossomed EVEN before the Spirit has been breathed into them. Yes, the Israel we see today is exactly the nation born in a day, as the Bible has promised. We’re seeing prophecy being revealed right before our very eyes. The stage is being set and we get to read about it and see it through the eyes of the prophets. Amazing.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
This passage has clearly never been fulfilled.

Ezek 37:21-28 (AKJV/PCE)​
(37:21) And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (37:22) And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: (37:23) Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. (37:24) And David my servant [shall be] king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (37:25) And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever. (37:26) Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. (37:27) My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (37:28) And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
  • They have not been "gathered on every side".
  • They do not have "one king to them all".
  • They do not possess the "land that God gave to Jacob" (that includes ALL of the land that God gave to Jacob and not just the part that they currently possess).
  • God has not made a "covenant of peace" with them.
  • God's sanctuary is not "in the midst of them".
Those who study Ezekiel see how he jumps back and forth. You have to search out the nuggets that apply. Just like panning for gold. Read at least chapters 36-39 and see how he backs up then goes forward again in time. Just try it with an open mind and watch out for the nuggets.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Where do you see we are the people of God?
We have been adopted.

Rom 8:14-18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (8:16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (8:17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. (8:18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.​
They never ceased being God’s people.
You can continue to ignore LO-AMMI all that you want.

There is a time when Israel is LO-AMMI (i.e., Not my people). When is that time?
The sun moon and stars are still there, aren’t they?
Again, you ignore the CONTEXT of that passage. You have cotton stuffed in your ears.
11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
Perhaps you have never noticed that Paul says is BOTH ways in that passage.

The point of that passage is that God HAS cast away Israel, BUT ONLY TEMPORARILY.

Rom 11:1 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.​
Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?​
God has not cast away His people, they are in time out,
THAT HAS BEEN MY POINT ALL ALONG!!!
and He has healed their land in preparation of their return….done,
So you claim.
and He has drawn them from being scattered, causing the land and it’s people to blossom. That fig tree has blossomed EVEN before the Spirit has been breathed into them. Yes, the Israel we see today is exactly the nation born in a day, as the Bible has promised. We’re seeing prophecy being revealed right before our very eyes.
You keep hedging your bets!

"We're seeing prophecy BEING REVEALED"... what does that even mean?
The stage is being set and we get to read about it and see it through the eyes of the prophets. Amazing.
The STAGE BEING SET is NOT FULFILLMENT... again, as I've been saying all along.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
Those who study Ezekiel see how he jumps back and forth. You have to search out the nuggets that apply. Just like panning for gold. Read at least chapters 36-39 and see how he backs up then goes forward again in time. Just try it with an open mind and watch out for the nuggets.
You are clearly seeing what you want to see. You are forcing your meaning on the scripture.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
We have been adopted.

Rom 8:14-18 (AKJV/PCE)​
(8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. (8:15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. (8:16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (8:17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. (8:18) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.​

You can continue to ignore LO-AMMI all that you want.

There is a time when Israel is LO-AMMI (i.e., Not my people). When is that time?

Again, you ignore the CONTEXT of that passage. You have cotton stuffed in your ears.

Perhaps you have never notices that Paul says is BOTH ways in that passage.

The point of that passage is that God HAS cast away Israel, BUT ONLY TEMPORARILY.

Rom 11:1 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.​
Rom 11:15 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:15) For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?​

THAT HAS BEEN MY POINT ALL ALONG!!!

So you claim.

You keep hedging your bets!

"We're seeing prophecy BEING REVEALED"... what does that even mean?

The STAGE BEING SET is NOT FULFILLMENT... again, as I've been saying all along.
Good grief. Sons, children, but not people. Go back to the start line.
 

Clete

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I do find it interesting how you keep on about LoAmmi. Respectfully, though, you seem to be forgetting something important. As angry as the Lord was with Israel, He never divorced them, and that is shown here In Hosea.
Actually, He did. Lamentations is God's divorce degree from Israel and Jeremiah 3:8 explicitly mentions God giving Israel (the northern kingdom) a certificate of divorce...

Jeremiah 3:8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.​

...but that is a total side issue. In this context it isn't a divorce at play here. Israel has been cut off. See Romans 9 and Jeremiah 18. This cutting off is temporary. God will return to Israel. Your eschatology is mostly wrong because you fail to see this important fact of history.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Actually, He did. Lamentations is God's divorce degree from Israel and Jeremiah 3:8 explicitly mentions God giving Israel (the northern kingdom) a certificate of divorce...

Jeremiah 3:8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.​

...but that is a total side issue. In this context it isn't a divorce at play here. Israel has been cut off. See Romans 9 and Jeremiah 18. This cutting off is temporary. God will return to Israel. Your eschatology is mostly wrong because you fail to see this important fact of history.
It goes on to explain it was never served. And here’s why. Lev. 26
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.

Go through and show me where I ever said this temporary blindness (that the Lord Inflicted on Israel) wasn’t temporary. I even mentioned that the gentiles are the fruit of that blindness. So don’t start claiming I’m saying things I haven’t.

The signs we are seeing with Israel are prophecies being fulfilled before our very eyes. You fight me on that fact. I know we are seeing the dry bones being gathered, for instance. That is the return to the land of the unbelieving Jews. For that I’m catching this guff. Go back and look.

OOPS. I thought this was RD. So sorry, Clete. That was a discussion Id been having with him.
 

Clete

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It goes on to explain it was never served. And here’s why. Lev. 26
No it does not.

44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.
Judah and Israel - not the same thing in this context.

Go through and show me where I ever said this temporary blindness (that the Lord Inflicted on Israel) wasn’t temporary. I even mentioned that the gentiles are the fruit of that blindness. So don’t start claiming I’m saying things I haven’t.
I didn't say that you said otherwise. Seems like we're talking past one another. Probably my fault.

The signs we are seeing with Israel are prophecies being fulfilled before our very eyes. You fight me on that fact.
Not really. Only to the extent to say that they may be and they may not be. You really would be wise to not be so dogmatic about it.

I know we are seeing the dry bones being gathered, for instance. That is the return to the land of the unbelieving Jews. For that I’m catching this guff. Go back and look.
That's just the point. You believe this, you do not KNOW it. I've already given you one alternative interpretation that would be at least as plausible if not more so.

OOPS. I thought this was RD. So sorry, Clete. That was a discussion Id been having with him.
No worries. That's on me for responding to something you said to RD.
 
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