Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?

glorydaz

Well-known member
Thank you for your patience.

I just found two nuggets

Jer. 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.​

Jeremiah 46:28
28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the Lord: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.​

No clue why they turned out big and bold.

Also, I missed your alternative for the dry bones. I‘ve only heard the one.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
You must be reading something into what they've said. They don't deny that these people are Jews at all. There have always been a people whom we today call the Jews, but that doesn't mean that the nation of Israel has always existed.
It has existed since Genesis 12:1 (2133-34 BC)
Ezekiel 37:13 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”

Seems like God puts His Spirit in them BEFORE He places them in their land, or at least concurrently, does He not?
Here God is speaking of the OT Saints who He will bring back to life...and place them in their own land (at the beginning of the Millennium all land that GOD gave them will be theirs.) Yes, they will be mortals but will have the 'New Covenant' within them. Imagine being able to sit down with Abraham or maybe Jacob or Joseph, Moses, Noah, ADAM
The passage goes on to talk about Israel having one and only one king. How does that fit with modern Israel which isn't even a kingdom? Do you take that portion of the prophesy to have been fulfilled with king David? If so, why not the entire passage along with it?
The millennium will have only one King, Jesus Christ....and it fits very good with the Kingdom. Jesus is the father of David and David is the Father of Jesus.
Of course Christ will sit on David's throne and so that would be one yet future fulfillment but that isn't happening until after the Tribulation period where there's tons of dead Jews all over the place and others that have been scattered to the winds and many could plausibly be expected to say "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ (vs. 11) at which point a much more direct fulfillment of this entire passage could take place without any reference whatsoever to modern day nation of Israel.
Clete: those living Jews today, 2/3 of them will die during Daniel's 70th week. up until then there will be fewer and fewer Jews that have not returned to Israel. Because of Prophecies yet to happen, Israel will become a prosperous state "without walls" which is something they do not have at this time. The Modern day Israel while blinded will not be separated again..Rem, God Name is on the title deed to that land.

The lack of belief (faith) is the missing fruit that Jesus was likening to absent figs when He came upon the barren fig tree. The nation of Israel was thus cut off because of unbelief (Romans 9). God is not going to become their King if they continue in that unbelief.
No, Jesus tells us they are blinded until "the fullness of the Gentiles" This has not happened yet either. Only when Jesus destroys the armies of the world will the fullness of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Until then, Israel/Jerusalem will be trodden upon by ruling gentiles.
Well, I certainly hope you're right but I was saying these same exact things, practically verbatim, back in the mid 1980s before the internet even existed.
Why did you quit believing in those things? Surely the internet did not unhook you from the Word of God.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It has existed since Genesis 12:1 (2133-34 BC)

Here God is speaking of the OT Saints who He will bring back to life...and place them in their own land (at the beginning of the Millennium all land that GOD gave them will be theirs.) Yes, they will be mortals but will have the 'New Covenant' within them. Imagine being able to sit down with Abraham or maybe Jacob or Joseph, Moses, Noah, ADAM

The millennium will have only one King, Jesus Christ....and it fits very good with the Kingdom. Jesus is the father of David and David is the Father of Jesus.

Clete: those living Jews today, 2/3 of them will die during Daniel's 70th week. up until then there will be fewer and fewer Jews that have not returned to Israel. Because of Prophecies yet to happen, Israel will become a prosperous state "without walls" which is something they do not have at this time. The Modern day Israel while blinded will not be separated again..Rem, God Name is on the title deed to that land.


No, Jesus tells us they are blinded until "the fullness of the Gentiles" This has not happened yet either. Only when Jesus destroys the armies of the world will the fullness of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Until then, Israel/Jerusalem will be trodden upon by ruling gentiles.

Why did you quit believing in those things? Surely the internet did not unhook you from the Word of God.
Actually, it’s the internet that has spread the Gospel to every corner of the world. It’s truly reaching every corner of the earth. That didn’t really seem possible before that. Also, the speed at which things are falling into place. Even 50 years ago, none of this stuff seemed possible. We’re speeding to the final countdown, which also makes our being the generation to see all these things come to pass.

I imagine most of us here will be taken in the rapture before the worst of it begins, but all we can do is watch and wait. And share what we know about the Lord’s inevitable and apparently fast approaching coming of our Lord and Saviour.
 

JudgeRightly

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As angry as the Lord was with Israel, He never divorced them, and that is shown here In Hosea.

Actually, He did. Lamentations is God's divorce degree from Israel and Jeremiah 3:8 explicitly mentions God giving Israel (the northern kingdom) a certificate of divorce...

Jeremiah 3:8 Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

It goes on to explain it was never served.

So you're saying Lamentations, the Certificate of Divorce from God, was never given to Israel...

So Lamentations isn't scripture?

Because I'm not understanding how God didn't give them Lamentations while also giving them Lamentations....

...

Also, I find odd your turning to Leviticus to explain why a book written long after Leviticus was not really given to Israel... When Jeremiah clearly and unequivocally states, as Clete quoted, that God did, in fact, give Israel a certificate of Divorce....

Giving her a certificate of divorce doesn't mean that God won't keep his promises, though...
 

JudgeRightly

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[Israel] has existed since Genesis 12:1 (2133-34 BC)

Saying it doesn't make it so.

No, Israel has not existed since Genesis 12:1.

Israel refers to both Jacob (the GRANDson of Abraham), and the nation that descended from Jacob, who was given the name Israel. The nation is the people who descended from Him. The patriarchs of Israel are Israel's 12 sons. Prior to Israel's birth, Israel did not exist.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
He isn’t returning today unless it’s with the Trumpet Voice calling us up for the rapture.

Then will come the Great Tribulation and governments aren’t going to matter. God will step in just before mankind destroys this place, and our Lord God will construct His own throne, I’m sure. 😊

Like in Isaiah, governments aren't going to matter here either:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
 

Clete

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Thank you for your patience.

I just found two nuggets

Jer. 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.​

Jeremiah 46:28​

28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the Lord: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.​

It seems like there's a lot of things that get stated twice in the book of Jeremiah.

No clue why they turned out big and bold.

Also, I missed your alternative for the dry bones. I‘ve only heard the one.
From post 163....

Of course Christ will sit on David's throne and so that would be one yet future fulfillment but that isn't happening until after the Tribulation period where there's tons of dead Jews all over the place and others that have been scattered to the winds and many could plausibly be expected to say "Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’ (vs. 11) at which point a much more direct fulfillment of this entire passage could take place without any reference whatsoever to modern day nation of Israel.
 

Clete

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It has existed since Genesis 12:1 (2133-34 BC)
Saying it doesn't make it so.

The nation exists today in name only and the reestablishment of David's throne doesn't appear to be anywhere on the horizon.

Here God is speaking of the OT Saints who He will bring back to life...and place them in their own land (at the beginning of the Millennium all land that GOD gave them will be theirs.) Yes, they will be mortals but will have the 'New Covenant' within them. Imagine being able to sit down with Abraham or maybe Jacob or Joseph, Moses, Noah, ADAM
You don't really believe that God is going to bring Adam or any of these other people back to life during the Millennium, do you?

Based on what?

The millennium will have only one King, Jesus Christ....and it fits very good with the Kingdom. Jesus is the father of David and David is the Father of Jesus.
David is Jesus' Earthly super-great grandfather.
There are 41 generations between David and Jesus on Mary's side which means that the genetic material shared would be approximately 0.0000000000455%, or less than one trillionth of a percent. Nearly everyone alive today with some roots in regions tied to David’s descendants (ancient Israel, Europe, the Middle East) could share a similar amount of genetic material with David.

Put another way...

God is the Father of Jesus.

Clete: those living Jews today, 2/3 of them will die during Daniel's 70th week. up until then there will be fewer and fewer Jews that have not returned to Israel. Because of Prophecies yet to happen, Israel will become a prosperous state "without walls" which is something they do not have at this time. The Modern day Israel while blinded will not be separated again..Rem, God Name is on the title deed to that land.
I can't figure out what I said that would have prompted the above.

No, Jesus tells us they are blinded until "the fullness of the Gentiles" This has not happened yet either. Only when Jesus destroys the armies of the world will the fullness of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Until then, Israel/Jerusalem will be trodden upon by ruling gentiles.
How do you come to the conclusion that the fullness of the Gentiles equates to Jesus destroying the armies of the world?

Why did you quit believing in those things? Surely the internet did not unhook you from the Word of God.
I never said I quit believing in them. I certainly came to understand that what passes for eschatology in most circles today is largely false teaching because it is mostly just television preachers trying to sell books where they've recorded the things that they want to see in the scriptures. It really is almost entirely an exercise in eisegetical theology where just about anything you want to believe can be seen if you look hard enough, even a resurrected mortal Abraham isn't out of the question.
 

Right Divider

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Like in Isaiah, governments aren't going to matter here either:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
I don't understand your "logic" there.

So, since nations will no longer war, they will no longer need governing?
 

JudgeRightly

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He would never declare something He didn’t know.

God doesn't know what He will bring about?

Again, God, from the beginning, declares the end.

He can do that.

God declares what He knows. Six one half dozen another.

Indeed. And God knows what He can and cannot bring about, from the beginning.

He doesn't need omniscience to do that.

Jesus was prophesying about the future and His use of the parable is for that future generation that would see these things.

WRONG.

At NO POINT in that entire passage does Jesus speak about a "future generation."

I literally quoted the passage for you, GD. Why did you ignore it?

Here it is again:

“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that [e]it is near—at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. - Matthew 24:32-34

"So YOU also, when YOU see all these things, know that it is near... THIS GENERATION will by no means pass away till all these things take place"

It's clear as day!

Again:

He is speaking privately to His disciples. (cf verse 3)

He says "THIS generation."
He says "when YOU see all these things."

There just isn't any reason to think He's talking about some future generation.

At times, Jesus spoke of the near fulfillment that would happen in 70 AD.

No, you have to read "70 AD" into the text in order for it to be talking about 70 AD.

Jesus was returning within 7 years. Not 35 years. Not 2000 years.

SEVEN.

7.

And probably less than even that!

You have to remember that the fig tree was barren, and the Jews were once again going to be dispersed.

You're reading your beliefs into the text.

There were already Jews dispersed.

They were going to be GATHERED!

But it never happened!

The fig tree was barren, and Jesus said "I want to cut it down." But the Holy Spirit said "Let me dig around and fertilize it for a year, and if it bears fruit, well. But if it does not bear fruit, then cut it down.

That's exactly what happened!

Christ came for three years, searching for fruit, but found none, then one year after Pentecost, Israel was cut off, just as He said He would do!

Of course they would be scattered for nearly 2000 years, and countless prophets spoke of that.

You're reading what actually happened into the text, and not seeing what they were preparing for that never happened because of Israel's unbelief, and subsequent severance.

Therefore, when He speaks of the generation that sees those signs regarding Israel growing branches and budding out can only be seen by that future generation.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

yep, I’m no stranger

I don't care how familiar you are with the text.

GO READ IT AGAIN!

It's all about Israel and her current status!

It tells us exactly what happened and why it happened! It tells us that what God said in Jeremiah was right, that when He says He will establish and make prosperous a nation, and if that nation rebels against Him, He will no longer do that which He said He was going to do!

It tells us that God promised Israel to make them into an everlasting kingdom, but that they rejected God, and currently have not attained righteousness! Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but rather by works of the law.

It tells us that Israel has rejected the gospel.

It tells us that while Israel has indeed fallen, God has not cast them away, that their rejection is not final!

It tells us that Israel was broken off that the Gentiles might be grafted in, but that if they do not continue in unbelief, God will graft them in again!

Paul calls them "enemies for your sake, concerning the gospel."

He says that even though they have been disobedient, they may also obtained mercy. God has committed them to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

There's no reason to show mercy to a people who has not rejected God!

God cannot reward a rebellious people.

Israel has been cut off until a later time.

They were cut off after the stoning of Stephen.

That's when God turned to working with the Gentiles, and converted Paul on the road to Damascus, and showed Him the mystery that had been kept secret.

Everything that happened after that point in time was the natural flow of things, sans God's direct influence.

Israel was cut off, and God's promise to her (and to Abraham) was put on hold.

Meaning the destruction of the temple in 70 AD has absolutely nothing to do with any prophecy.

Meaning Israel being made a nation again in 1948 has absolutely nothing to do with any prophecy.

Meaning "this generation" died without seeing Christ's return.

Meaning John was not kept alive until Christ's return.

Meaning going through all the cities in Israel was no longer of utmost priority for the disciples, and they largely stayed within Jerusalem after Paul's conversion.

I have a pretty good grip already.

Clearly not!

Saying mid acts folks wear some blinders shouldn’t be taken personally. It’s merely something I’ve realized over time, that the focus is too narrow.

It's not "putting on blinders."

It's called "rightly dividing the word of truth"!

That you think it's us putting blinders on tells me that you clearly do not understand what that means!

I do find it interesting how you keep on about LoAmmi.

I find it fascinating that you keep ignoring it.

Besides, divorce is against the law.

Jesus dealt with this false claim:

The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
 

glorydaz

Well-known member


God doesn't know what He will bring about?

Again, God, from the beginning, declares the end.

He can do that.



Indeed. And God knows what He can and cannot bring about, from the beginning.

He doesn't need omniscience to do that.



WRONG.

At NO POINT in that entire passage does Jesus speak about a "future generation."

I literally quoted the passage for you, GD. Why did you ignore it?

Here it is again:



"So YOU also, when YOU see all these things, know that it is near... THIS GENERATION will by no means pass away till all these things take place"

It's clear as day!

Again:

He is speaking privately to His disciples. (cf verse 3)

He says "THIS generation."
He says "when YOU see all these things."

There just isn't any reason to think He's talking about some future generation.



No, you have to read "70 AD" into the text in order for it to be talking about 70 AD.

Jesus was returning within 7 years. Not 35 years. Not 2000 years.

SEVEN.

7.

And probably less than even that!



You're reading your beliefs into the text.

There were already Jews dispersed.

They were going to be GATHERED!

But it never happened!

The fig tree was barren, and Jesus said "I want to cut it down." But the Holy Spirit said "Let me dig around and fertilize it for a year, and if it bears fruit, well. But if it does not bear fruit, then cut it down.

That's exactly what happened!

Christ came for three years, searching for fruit, but found none, then one year after Pentecost, Israel was cut off, just as He said He would do!



You're reading what actually happened into the text, and not seeing what they were preparing for that never happened because of Israel's unbelief, and subsequent severance.



Saying it doesn't make it so.



I don't care how familiar you are with the text.

GO READ IT AGAIN!

It's all about Israel and her current status!

It tells us exactly what happened and why it happened! It tells us that what God said in Jeremiah was right, that when He says He will establish and make prosperous a nation, and if that nation rebels against Him, He will no longer do that which He said He was going to do!

It tells us that God promised Israel to make them into an everlasting kingdom, but that they rejected God, and currently have not attained righteousness! Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but rather by works of the law.

It tells us that Israel has rejected the gospel.

It tells us that while Israel has indeed fallen, God has not cast them away, that their rejection is not final!

It tells us that Israel was broken off that the Gentiles might be grafted in, but that if they do not continue in unbelief, God will graft them in again!

Paul calls them "enemies for your sake, concerning the gospel."

He says that even though they have been disobedient, they may also obtained mercy. God has committed them to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

There's no reason to show mercy to a people who has not rejected God!

God cannot reward a rebellious people.

Israel has been cut off until a later time.

They were cut off after the stoning of Stephen.

That's when God turned to working with the Gentiles, and converted Paul on the road to Damascus, and showed Him the mystery that had been kept secret.

Everything that happened after that point in time was the natural flow of things, sans God's direct influence.

Israel was cut off, and God's promise to her (and to Abraham) was put on hold.

Meaning the destruction of the temple in 70 AD has absolutely nothing to do with any prophecy.

Meaning Israel being made a nation again in 1948 has absolutely nothing to do with any prophecy.

Meaning "this generation" died without seeing Christ's return.

Meaning John was not kept alive until Christ's return.

Meaning going through all the cities in Israel was no longer of utmost priority for the disciples, and they largely stayed within Jerusalem after Paul's conversion.



Clearly not!



It's not "putting on blinders."

It's called "rightly dividing the word of truth"!

That you think it's us putting blinders on tells me that you clearly do not understand what that means!



I find it fascinating that you keep ignoring it.



Jesus dealt with this false claim:

The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”
This post is too long for me to read in one sitting, much less respond to. Sure is fun to come here and post. 😂.

How about, for common courtesy sake, you just attack me with one issue at a time?
Perhaps we could start with the divorce issue.
And please read your words……lovely, aren’t they? No…..go back and read them.
 
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JudgeRightly

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This post is too long for me to read in one sitting, much less respond to.

I prefer when people take their time and thoroughly respond to what I say.

Sure is fun to come here and post.

Agreed!

How about, for common courtesy sake, you just attack me with one issue at a time?

I'm an equal opportunity debater!

Perhaps we could start with the divorce issue.

Could start a new thread, but I'm not too worried if you ignore it. It's not the topic of this thread anyways.

I just wanted to make sure you knew what the Bible said, so that you don't make the same error twice!

And please read your words……lovely, aren’t they? No…..go back and read them.

I know I can get a bit rough with my opponents.

But that's how you know I care!

Consider that God chastens those He loves.

My "chastening" is done out of love.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Interesting you use that quote when I said divorce was against the law, and it was against the law, notice Jesus said “from the beginning it was not so”. Jesus Himself said it was not allowed in the beginning, but was allowed because of their hard hearts.

Also, this shows that Had God divorced Israel, He wouldn’t have been able to marry her again.

Deut. 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
 

JudgeRightly

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Interesting you use that quote when I said divorce was against the law, and it was against the law, notice Jesus said “from the beginning it was not so”. Jesus Himself said it was not allowed in the beginning, but was allowed because of their hard hearts.

Also, this shows that Had God divorced Israel, He wouldn’t have been able to marry her again.

Deut. 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Could start a new thread, but I'm not too worried if you ignore it. It's not the topic of this thread anyways.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I prefer when people take their time and thoroughly respond to what I say.



Agreed!



I'm an equal opportunity debater!



Could start a new thread, but I'm not too worried if you ignore it. It's not the topic of this thread anyways.

I just wanted to make sure you knew what the Bible said, so that you don't make the same error twice!



I know I can get a bit rough with my opponents.

But that's how you know I care!

Consider that God chastens those He loves.

My "chastening" is done out of love.
That’s sweet. I hope you realize you stand corrected, at least on the quote you submitted to prove me wrong.
Just have mercy on me. I’m old. ☺️
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The more I reread what you have posted, I’m seeing replacement theology to some degree. This idea that Israel is “cut off” is error. They merely stumbled. That allowed us to leap to the forefront, BUT Israel is and always will be God’s chosen people. He sent the Romans in 70 AD to destroy the temple, and scattered His people. Now, in these final hours, He has caused the land to bloom and bear fruit. The Jews are returning to the land. They have become a nation in 1948. They are Jews. Still God’s people, and more Godly than many believers. They aren’t out worshipping golden calves, they are peace loving, God fearing people. They have been being prepared for what is to come. They have never been cut off, and we’re here to witness this final chapter before we’re taken up. ⬆️
 

Clete

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Interesting you use that quote when I said divorce was against the law, and it was against the law, notice Jesus said “from the beginning it was not so”. Jesus Himself said it was not allowed in the beginning, but was allowed because of their hard hearts.

Also, this shows that Had God divorced Israel, He wouldn’t have been able to marry her again.

Deut. 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
Just to make it absolutely clear as crystal....

Divorce has NEVER been completely prohibited by the law - ever.

Under the Mosaic Law, there were exceptions that allowed for divorce. In Deuteronomy 24:1-4, a provision is made for a man to divorce his wife if he finds "some uncleanness" in her. While the exact meaning of "uncleanness" (Hebrew: 'erwat dabar) is debated, it is generally understood to refer to something morally or behaviorally offensive, though not necessarily adultery, as adultery was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10).

This exception implies that divorce was permissible under certain conditions, though it was regulated to prevent abuse, particularly to protect the woman. For instance, if the woman remarried and then was divorced or widowed, her first husband was prohibited from taking her back.

In Exodus 21:10-11, it states that if a man marries another wife, he must not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of his first wife. If he fails to provide these, she is free to leave without penalty.

If an Israelite man took a captive woman as his wife and later decided he no longer delighted in her, he was required to let her go free and was forbidden to sell or enslave her. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

And lastly, while adultery was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10), if this penalty was not enforced (for example, due to lack of evidence), it could implicitly justify divorce, as Jesus acknowledged in Matthew 19:9.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Just to make it absolutely clear as crystal....

Divorce has NEVER been completely prohibited by the law - ever.

Under the Mosaic Law, there were exceptions that allowed for divorce. In Deuteronomy 24:1-4, a provision is made for a man to divorce his wife if he finds "some uncleanness" in her. While the exact meaning of "uncleanness" (Hebrew: 'erwat dabar) is debated, it is generally understood to refer to something morally or behaviorally offensive, though not necessarily adultery, as adultery was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10).

This exception implies that divorce was permissible under certain conditions, though it was regulated to prevent abuse, particularly to protect the woman. For instance, if the woman remarried and then was divorced or widowed, her first husband was prohibited from taking her back.

In Exodus 21:10-11, it states that if a man marries another wife, he must not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of his first wife. If he fails to provide these, she is free to leave without penalty.

If an Israelite man took a captive woman as his wife and later decided he no longer delighted in her, he was required to let her go free and was forbidden to sell or enslave her. (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

And lastly, while adultery was punishable by death (Leviticus 20:10), if this penalty was not enforced (for example, due to lack of evidence), it could implicitly justify divorce, as Jesus acknowledged in Matthew 19:9.
I think Jesus makes it clearer. Matthew 19:3-8

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Notice He explains “What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” His saying “from the beginning it was not so”, makes it clear and those writs of divorcement were added because of the hardness of their hearts. Same with most of those other 600 plus laws.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
God hates divorce according to Malachi 2:16

For the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the Lord of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I think Jesus makes it clearer. Matthew 19:3-8

3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Notice He explains “What God has joined together, let no man put asunder.” His saying “from the beginning it was not so”, makes it clear and those writs of divorcement were added because of the hardness of their hearts. Same with most of those other 600 plus laws.
Jesus did NOT change the law, Glorydaz!

It has NEVER been required by the law to remain married to an adulterer or to an abusive spouse or to a spouse to rejects their faith and walks away from God.

There was NO LAW before Moses. You understand that, right? It is a central aspect of the gospel!

Romans 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.​
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)​
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.​
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

So, no! Jesus was not suggesting that divorce was ever categorically prohibited nor was He changing the law. Jesus was outsmarting those trying to trap him.

There is a section of Bob Enyart's book, "The Plot", that you might appreciate. It talks specifically about how Israel is the Bride of Christ and goes into how God divorced Israel and intends to remarry her. I strongly recommend you give it a read....

The Plot excerpt on the bride
 
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