:darwinsm:
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
- Thread starter SimpleMan77
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:darwinsm:
I'd tell him that fornication is a sin and that if he doesn't repent, he is no longer welcome in my congregation.
I Corinthians 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your questions imply the same thing that Paul himself was accused of preaching, which I'd say means we're doing something right...
Romans 3: 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
Miles J. Stanford's Principles of Spiritual Growth makes an excellent point on this subject and sheds light on the difference between law and grace....
“There being no cause in the creature why Grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off from trying to give cause to God for His Grace… He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing! He is not ‘on probation.’ As to his life past, it does not exist before God: he died at the cross, and Christ is his Life. Grace, once bestowed, is not withdrawn: for God knew all the human exigencies beforehand: His action was independent of them, not dependent upon them…
“The Proper Attitude of Man Under Grace:
“To believe, and to consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.
“To refuse to make ‘resolutions’ and ‘vows’; for that is to trust in the flesh.
“To expect to be blessed, though realizing more and more lack of worth…
“To rely on God’s chastening [child training] hand as a mark of His kindness…
“Things Which Gracious Souls Discover:
“To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
“To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.
“To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.
“To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.
“The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…
“To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure.”
Have we been afraid to really believe God? Have some
even been afraid to allow others to really believe Him? We must never
forget that “God’s ways are not always man’s ways. To some men constant
peril is the only spur to action, and many religions and psychologies
are dependent on fear to keep their disciples in line. Fear, too, has a
place in Christianity, but God has higher and more effective motivations
than fear, and one of these is love. Often fear after a while produces
only numbness, but love thrives on love. To promise a man the certainty
of his destiny may seem, on the human level, like playing with fire; but
this leaves God out of the picture. Those who have the deepest
appreciation of grace do not continue in sin. Moreover, fear produces
the obedience of slaves; love engenders the obedience of sons” (J. W.
Sanderson, Jr.).
Resting in Him,
Clete
SimpleMan77
New member
I guess you're the self-appointed moderator on my thread...
You haven't added one comment to the thread, and come in trying to keep people who have been great contributors to this conversation from answering a question until they get your permission. Hmmm.
[MENTION=13925]Grosnick Marowbe[/MENTION] [MENTION=3698]Tambora[/MENTION] [MENTION=7053]SaulToPaul[/MENTION] [MENTION=2492]Lighthouse[/MENTION] [MENTION=2589]Clete[/MENTION] [MENTION=6992]heir[/MENTION] (and I'll add [MENTION=16688]Danoh[/MENTION] to this) have been valuable contributors to this conversation.
I'm asking each of them (or any of them who are willing to answer a question that may make them uncomfortable) to answer.
I do want to say that I respect [MENTION=2589]Clete[/MENTION], [MENTION=16688]Danoh[/MENTION] and some others for the questions they have answered. A lot of people on here either dodge questions or revert to trying to bully people, but they have engaged in discussion the way it is supposed to be.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Why would his situation be any different than the other you asked about? Both sinned. Both were guilty.
Both were saved by grace through faith without works so neither could boast of their own works.
Once one is grated eternal life, eternal cannot become non-eternal.
Once one has been buried with Christ, he cannot become un-buried.
There can be no condemnation for those in Christ because they have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ, and Christ cannot be condemned.
It is not your life and deeds that save you, it is the life and deeds of Christ that save you.
Being in Christ does not mean that you have been sprinkled with some sort of magic pixie dust that makes your flesh body quit sinning.
Even with all the stories of some Christians who got a grip on a particular sin habit they had, this is done by both Christians and non-Christians alike.
There is only one person's righteousness anyone can rely on for salvation.
Romans 5:17-18 KJV
(17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
One - Jesus Christ.
Not two - you and Christ.
Acts 4:12 KJV
(12) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Your name isn't even considered.
So quit trying to scoot Christ over so you can cram your imperfect righteousness in with His perfect righteousness.
Now, everyone has the choice of which ones name and which ones righteousness saves them.
Choose wisely.
themuzicman
Well-known member
MAD has many errors, but is not heresy, nor does it mean those who embrace MAD are unsaved.
SimpleMan77
New member
I truly believe that all of the New Testament writings, be they written by Paul, Peter, Apollos, James, Jude, Luke, etc, are the divinely inspired Word of God. I do not believe there is any contradiction in doctrine found between any of the books.
Some MADists, and I only include the ones who feel this way, feel that writers other than Paul contradict him instead of compliment him, which allows them to write parts of them off as being written to people under a different dispensation. That's dangerous, and I I'd say it's heresy.
Example: James said that "faith without works is dead". He was clearly teaching on indiscriminate love when he made the statement. If I claim to have faith, but it doesn't produce works of love, my faith is dead - in other words it stinks and is useless. It will not save me.
Paul taught against salvation by the works of the Mosaic Law in the book of Galatians, but said that the faith he was promoting and teaching about was "faith which WORKETH by love".
Paul's teachings are replete with commandments on how we are to please God, including statements that we'll be unable to reach heaven if we continue in sin and don't live righteously. For example he taught that unrighteousness and fornicators will not be able to inherit the Kingdom of God. You can be a son and be in line for the inheritance, but if you choose to remain in fornication you will not inherit the kingdom.
You must take the Bible as a whole, and scripture must be interpreted by scripture. Otherwise people come up with some pretty outlandish doctrines.
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James began his book with the following: James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting."
He tells you right there who he's pertaining to.
SimpleMan77
New member
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
He absolutely was writing to them, but the commandments to the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians are the same.
If you can say this was only to the Jews, then Paul was only writing to the Galatians.
Galatians 1:1-2
Galatians
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
While it's important to remember who they were writing to for context, the truth of the commandments is the same.
The good thing is that the epistle of James doesn't contradict Paul's epistles in the least.
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He absolutely was writing to them, but the commandments to the Jewish Christians and the Gentile Christians are the same.
If you can say this was only to the Jews, then Paul was only writing to the Galatians.
Galatians 1:1-2
Galatians
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
While it's important to remember who they were writing to for context, the truth of the commandments is the same.
The good thing is that the epistle of James doesn't contradict Paul's epistles in the least.
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Is it okay with God if we eat pork?
musterion
Well-known member
You sound upset.
SimpleMan77
New member
While the purpose of the vision was not dealing with dietary laws, I would imagine that the sheet Peter saw had some bacon on it!!
But to answer your question, yes.
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Yeppers.
musterion
Well-known member
So no Lawkweping for us. That is good to hear.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Not assuming, but hearing a testimony of salvation from him, I'd show him justification by the faith of Christ and his identity in Christ. Some relevant passages would be: Romans 5:1-2 KJV, 1 Corinthians 6:11 KJV, Galatians 2:16 KJV, Galatians 2:20 KJV, Colossians 2:10-13 KJV, Colossians 3:1-4 KJV.
I'm not reluctant I'm just curious because knowing the answer given by the person asking explains their position and let's you know if you'd be wasting your time answering with something they would ignore or criticize.
Stop drooling on your keyboard.
Such as?
Paul was the one doing the contradicting.
James said we are justified by works, and Paul said we are not.
See above.
musterion
Well-known member
1. Demonstrate that "inherit" = be saved and "not inherit" = Lake of Fire.
2. Demonstrate that "kingdom of God" = Heaven, as in the post-death destination for believers, as you are implying.
SimpleMan77
New member
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
Essentially this proves both:
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power
The "Kingdom of God" is like "eternal life". It begins here, where we get the "earnest of our inheritance", the fullness of which comes in the hereafter.
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Essentially this proves both:
2 Thessalonians 1:5-10
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power
The "Kingdom of God" is like "eternal life". It begins here, where we get the "earnest of our inheritance", the fullness of which comes in the hereafter.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
Neither (Paul nor James) contradicts the other if you look at it closely.
Paul taught that we are justified by grace without works of the law or works of righteousness, but by faith.
However, at the very same time, he said that people who live unrighteously, doing works of sin, will not inherit the kingdom of God, but rather will receive the vengeance of flaming fire.
Paul also said that the kind of faith that justifies and saves us is a "faith which WORKETH by love", which is the most important attribute to have (love).
That is exactly what James was saying in the 2nd chapter of his epistle. Read it for yourself - the whole subject, starting in James 2:1, was on not treating poor people with less respect than rich people, and he made his point that a faith which didn't "work by love" was really dead, useless faith.
Throughout Paul's epistles he is in full agreement.
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Neither (Paul nor James) contradicts the other if you look at it closely.
Paul taught that we are justified by grace without works of the law or works of righteousness, but by faith.
However, at the very same time, he said that people who live unrighteously, doing works of sin, will not inherit the kingdom of God, but rather will receive the vengeance of flaming fire.
Paul also said that the kind of faith that justifies and saves us is a "faith which WORKETH by love", which is the most important attribute to have (love).
That is exactly what James was saying in the 2nd chapter of his epistle. Read it for yourself - the whole subject, starting in James 2:1, was on not treating poor people with less respect than rich people, and he made his point that a faith which didn't "work by love" was really dead, useless faith.
Throughout Paul's epistles he is in full agreement.
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musterion
Well-known member
"Like"?
Okay, then. How does one get counted worthy of eternal life when salvation is by GRACE through faith in what Christ did, not in what we do?