Is Jesus God?

[betsy123]

Hi, Betsy. Some things, indeed, are impossible with God. For instance, whereas God knows the truth that every triangle has three sides, it is impossible for God to know the false proposition that some triangles have more than three sides.

Why do you think that's impossible for God to know?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings 7djengo7,

"Jesus is the Son of God BECAUSE....Mary is his mother..."???
Really? Jesus' having been miraculously conceived in and born from the virgin Mary's womb contributed to Jesus' being the Son of God?? Do you, then, call Mary "God"? In order to be the only begotten Son of God, Jesus had to be born from a human womb??

• The miraculous, immaculate conception of Jesus, in the virgin Mary's womb is Bible Truth.
• That Jesus is the only begotten Son of God is Bible Truth.
• That the Son of God's being the Son of God is in some way, or to some degree, owing to the Son of God's being born from a human womb is as ridiculously irrational as it is particularly anti-Christ falsehood.

If I'm not mistaken, Jesus is the Son of Man BECAUSE He was born of the womb of Mary, a woman, a human. Jesus' being the Son of God is not the least bit derived from the human, Mary, nor from the fact of His being conceived in, and born from, her womb.
Notice that it is not written, "...therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall BE the Son of God", but, rather, what is written is "...therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be CALLED the Son of God."

Jesus was called the Son of God because God the Father was his father in the conception / birth process. The title "the Son of God" is attributed to his miraculous conception. He is "called" because "the Son of God" is the correct title and name for what happened and the word "therefore" is correct and significant, which you seem to be avoiding or bypassing by juggling with words.

There is not, in that passage, nor anywhere else in Scripture, even the slightest shred of a hint of an affirmation that, at the time of the conception of Jesus in Mary's womb (or any other point in time), the Son of God was caused to come into being.

Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:34-35, John 1:14 teach that God the Father is the father of Jesus, the Son of God in the conception / birth process.

What's your point? Trinitarians believe that there is one God the Father, just as there is one God the Son, and one God the Spirit; we do not think there are multiple Gods the Father, just as we do not think there are multiple Gods the Son, nor multiple Gods the Spirit. God the Father is one of the three persons of the Triune God, just as is God the Son one of them, and as is God the Spirit. Saying "There is One God the Father" is not the least bit anti-Trinitarian. One of the insurmountable, embarrassing problems by which your doctrine is plagued is that nowhere in Scripture can you find it said that only God the Father is God, just as you cannot find it said (as the anti-Trinitarian TOL member called "oatmeal" admits) that Jesus is not God.

You are defining the Trinity, while I was defining that there is One God, the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why do you think that's impossible for God to know?

A triangle, by definition, has three sides.

It's not possible to have a triangle that is four sided, or two sided, or any other number of sides other than three.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I never cease to be amazed at how people can argue over a doctrine that was established almost 2,000 years ago and has been Christian doctrine ever since. The fact that God is Trinity, and the Divinity of Christ, was established before the canon of the NT was even established

 

[God's Truth]

WRONG:

The Son, the second person of the Trinity, became man.

There is only one God, and He is the Father.
Since there is only one God and He is the Father, then Jesus must be that God.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

 

[God's Truth]

Neither of those statements answer my question.



GT, let me ask you plainly: Who did Jesus receive His authority from if He is God the Father come in the flesh?

I did answer you and what I said does explain it.

God really came as a man, and as a man his Father and God was greater than him.

 

[God's Truth]

I never cease to be amazed at how people can argue over a doctrine that was established almost 2,000 years ago and has been Christian doctrine ever since. The fact that God is Trinity, and the Divinity of Christ, was established before the canon of the NT was even established

There were false doctrines even among the brothers in the Bible times.
Why are you so surprised?
We know that the Catholics tried hard to kill everyone who didn't believe in the trinity, but truth survives.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I did answer you and what I said does explain it.

God really came as a man, and as a man his Father and God was greater than him.

So the Father has a God?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I never cease to be amazed at how people can argue over a doctrine that was established almost 2,000 years ago and has been Christian doctrine ever since. The fact that God is Trinity, and the Divinity of Christ, was established before the canon of the NT was even established

There were false doctrines even among the brothers in the Bible times.........

Well this ain't one of them and you have no authority to say otherwise.

 

[God's Truth]

So the Father has a God?

God the Father came as a man and says plainly: Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

 

[Bright Raven]

God the Father came as a man and says plainly: Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

This is absolute blasphemy. You are a heretic!

 

[God's Truth]

Well this ain't one of them and you have no authority to say otherwise.

You think the Catholics who came up with the trinity doctrine had special authority?

 

[God's Truth]

This is absolute blasphemy. You are a heretic!

Do you have to follow me around and say that? This is a place to discuss the scriptures and different beliefs.
There are all kinds of beliefs here, even those who say Jesus is the son of God but not God.
There are people here who don't even believe in Jesus.
Now stop saying that to me and getting yourself worked up.

 

[JudgeRightly]

God the Father came as a man and says plainly: . . ."I ascend to . . . My God and your God."

Just to confirm, you realize that you are saying that the Father is not God, but that the Father has a God above Him?

So who is this god above God the Father, Whom you are now claiming is not the only God, in direct contradiction of scripture?

 

[God's Truth]

Just to confirm, you realize that you are saying that the Father is not God, but that the Father has a God above Him?

So who is this god above God the Father, Whom you are now claiming is not the only God, in direct contradiction of scripture?

You are trying to twist what I say.
There is only one God and He is the Father. That is scripture.
God lowered Himself and came in the flesh. That is scripture.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

You think the Catholics who came up with the trinity doctrine had special authority?

Back then they were only referred to as Christians, and yes, the bishops had the authority handed down to them from the apostles and ultimately from Christ himself. If you know anything about Christian history you would know that. You claim to be a former Catholic and don't know such a basic teaching?

These are the same people who decided which books went into the New Testament.

 

[Bright Raven]

Do you have to follow me around and say that? This is a place to discuss the scriptures and different beliefs.
There are all kinds of beliefs here, even those who say Jesus is the son of God but not God.
There are people here who don't even believe in Jesus.
Now stop saying that to me and getting yourself worked up.

I call it the way I see it. Your beliefs are in direct opposition to orthodox Christianity. You have know idea what Christianity is all about. It is a personal relationship with the Son of God who was sent by the Father to provide a solution to the problem of sin.. The Father is not the Son or the Spirit. The Son is not the Father or the Spirit. The Spirit is not the father or the Son. Change your theology and get it right.

 

[Bright Raven]

You are trying to twist what I say.
There is only one God and He is the Father. That is scripture.
God lowered Himself and came in the flesh. That is scripture.

That is not Scripture. Scripture states their is one God expressed in three persons.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You are trying to twist what I say.

Did you not just say this?

God the Father came as a man and says plainly: Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

You're the one claiming that the Father came as a man and said those very words, that He has not yet ascended to quote, "My God and your God."

There is only one God and He is the Father. That is scripture.

Which is why I'm confused as to why you would try to argue that the Father, who you claim came as a man, would say that He has a God above Him.

What you said above contradicts scripture, which is why Raven called you a heretic, because asserting things that contradict scripture as doctrine is heresy.

So would you like to retract this heretical argument that God the Father came as a man and said "My God and your God"?

God lowered Himself and came in the flesh. That is scripture.

No argument there.

But now you're evading.

Your argument was that the Father said "My God and your God". Would you like to retract that heretical claim?

 

[God's Truth]

Back then they were only referred to as Christians, and yes, the bishops had the authority handed down to them from the apostles and ultimately from Christ himself. If you know anything about Christian history you would know that. You claim to be a former Catholic and don't know such a basic teaching?

These are the same people who decided which books went into the New Testament.

The proof that what you say is not truth are the scriptures, and the defiant practices of the Catholics.