Is God Truly All Powerful?

[Caledvwlch]

That's complete and utter crap. God knows all that can be known, and can do all that can be done. And that means knowing more than us, and being able to do that which we can not do. But it does not mean He can know that which can not be known, nor than He can do that which can not be done. You still haven't answered my question: Is God in Wonderland?

You've redefined omnipotence to fit your shaky theory.

 

[Humanoid]

No, I understand what lighthouse means. Omnipotence means being able to do all that is doable. Same with omniscient, to know all that is knowable.

But there's something wrong here......I need to get some sleep and try to articulate what I'm thinking

 

[Lighthouse]

It's not a theory. It's Biblical. And it's logical. Omnipotence is the ability to do anything that can be done. We just don't agree what can and can not be done.

Now, answer the question.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I have got a boil on my...

woops. Wrong thread.

 

[Lighthouse]

I'm still waiting...

 

[Caledvwlch]

I'm still waiting...

There is no Wonderland. But there is a plane of existence outside of the constraints of time. God exists on this plane.

 

[Lighthouse]

So, there is no Wonderland, therefore God does not exist in Wonderland, right? So, it would stand to reason that if there is not a plane of existence outside of time that God would not be there?

 

[Caledvwlch]

So, there is no Wonderland, therefore God does not exist in Wonderland, right? So, it would stand to reason that if there is not a plane of existence outside of time that God would not be there?

Sure, but if there is, he would be.

 

[Lighthouse]

I cna agree with that. Now, why do you think there is such a plane?

 

[Caledvwlch]

I cna agree with that. Now, why do you think there is such a plane?

Because God created the universe. Outside of the universe (in the realm of God, I suppose) there is no time. This is strictly speculative on my part, but not more speculative than assuming that God is bound by time.

 

[Clete]

Because God created the universe. Outside of the universe (in the realm of God, I suppose) there is no time. This is strictly speculative on my part, but not more speculative than assuming that God is bound by time.

Why do you ignore what I've said about what time is? Is there any reason other than your Calvinist theology, any Biblical reason to believe that there is something outside of time? How long would you say that such a place has existed?

 

[Caledvwlch]

Why do you ignore what I've said about what time is? Is there any reason other than your Calvinist theology, any Biblical reason to believe that there is something outside of time? How long would you say that such a place has existed?

I wouldn't say it has existed for any amount of time. I wouldn't say God has existed for any amount of time. God simply is. We can't fathom the possibility, neither can I. I simply think it's unfair to bring God down to our minor understanding of the nature of eternity. I don't believe eternity is forever so much as it is an abscence of time (or freedom from time). I don't have anything to base this on other than speculation, as I've already said. But it seems to make sense that if God is not bound by physical constraints, why should he be bound by the temporal?

 

[Clete]

I wouldn't say it has existed for any amount of time. I wouldn't say God has existed for any amount of time. God simply is. We can't fathom the possibility, neither can I. I simply think it's unfair to bring God down to our minor understanding of the nature of eternity. I don't believe eternity is forever so much as it is an abscence of time (or freedom from time). I don't have anything to base this on other than speculation, as I've already said. But it seems to make sense that if God is not bound by physical constraints, why should he be bound by the temporal?

If you admit that you do not base your beliefs about the nature of time on the Bible and the Bible clearly describes God in terms of duration and sequence as well as in out right terms of time, why cling to the belief? By your own admition, the belief is not Biblical; that by itself should be enough cause to rid yourself of it. The fact that such a belief is logically incoherent is only icing on the cake.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Caledvwlch]

If you admit that you do not base your beliefs about the nature of time on the Bible and the Bible clearly describes God in terms of duration and sequence as well as in out right terms of time, why cling to the belief? By your own admition, the belief is not Biblical. That by itself should be enough to rid yourself of it. The fact that such a belief is logically incoherent is only icing on the cake.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Hmmm... I'll have to get back to you on this. The passages that lighthouse gave me didn't necessarily prove anything. I'll have to go back and check out the ones you put forward.

 

[godrulz]

Both. We don't need to understand it. He's God.

Cop out...God's truth is reflected in reality or we cannot know anything for sure. God wants to communicate truth, not have us shrug our shoulders if we cannot figure it out immediately.

 

[godrulz]

It wasn't a cop-out. Who are we to fathom God? Not believing in predestination is a cop-out. You have two choices. A God who is all-knowing and all-powerful, who predestines people to burn and hell. Or you have a God who is not all-powerful, and historically speaking is kind of helpless, and therefore not God at all.

Logical fallacy warning: false dichotomy. These are not the only possibilities. It is possible to be omnipotent and omniscient without predestining individual's to hell. The problem is with your understanding of His character and ways. All-powerful does not have to mean a cosmic control-freak. God can rule responsively and providentially. He does not have to rule with meticulous control.

 

[godrulz]

There is no Wonderland. But there is a plane of existence outside of the constraints of time. God exists on this plane.

Speculation vs revelation.

 

[Caledvwlch]

Revelation is speculation. Speculation mixed with dogma, I suppose, but speculation nonetheless.

 

[godrulz]

Revelation is speculation. Speculation mixed with dogma, I suppose, but speculation nonetheless.

I am talking about revelation from God, not the book of Revelation (which is also HIs Word). God's self-revelation is objective truth and reality. Our interpretation of it may be subjective and speculative, but the Spirit desires to illuminate HIs inspired revelation that it would lead to transformation.

 

[Caledvwlch]

I am talking about revelation from God, not the book of Revelation (which is also HIs Word). God's self-revelation is objective truth and reality. Our interpretation of it may be subjective and speculative, but the Spirit desires to illuminate HIs inspired revelation that it would lead to transformation.

Yeah, that's what I meant. What you call the Spirit's illumination, I call dogmatic indoctrination.