Caledvwlch
New member
Obvioously this is going nowhere. And since it doesn't really matter whether or not God is bound by His creation, I'm not going to waste anymore keystrokes.
Is God Truly All Powerful?
- Thread starter Ninjashadow
- Start date
Caledvwlch said:
Theology, the Queen of sciences, is worth wrestling with. God is not bound by His creation. He is sovereign over it. This does not mean that He is not immanent as well as transcendent. He is not a Deist god, nor is He a finite god. He is God Almighty, the uncreated Creator, ruler of heaven and earth.
godrulz-
I believe my subscriber status has something to do with it, but no, I can not give them to myself. However, what shows up on my posts is rep power. My points are 1066.
Cal-
God is not bound by His creation. But He is bound by Himself, and anything else that is not a created thing.
I believe my subscriber status has something to do with it, but no, I can not give them to myself. However, what shows up on my posts is rep power. My points are 1066.
Cal-
God is not bound by His creation. But He is bound by Himself, and anything else that is not a created thing.
Caledvwlch
New member
Are there any Christians out there who know where I'm coming from with this argument? I simply think that it's bizarre to think that time is not a created thing.
Prove that time is a created thing. Prove that the Bible teaches God knows, exhaustively, everything that will happen. Prove that there was a time when time did not exist...
Caledvwlch
New member
That's kinda silly, don't you think? While I'm at it, do you want me to prove that God exists? And prove that there was a time when time didn't exist. That's ridiculous. Not in this universe, granted. But in the eternity of God, there is no time... hence eternity.lighthouse said:
Caledvwlch said:
Many Christians have not thought this concept through. They assume time is created 'in the beginning'. The only thing created was star, sun, moon, that provided a newtemporal measure of the already existing duration.
"God and Time: 4 views" ed. Ganssle, IVP will help you appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of various views on the subject of time, eternity, etc. This is somewhat philosophical, since Scripture does not give a systematic thesis on the subject (though it shows God experiencing an endless duration of His Story/history).
Caledvwlch
New member
Exactly. Scripture does not give a systematic thesis on the subject. So why is lighthouse poking me with his truth stick? His dogma is so thick he can't even allow for variations where the Bible does.godrulz said:
Caledvwlch said:
Platonic (pagan Greek philosophy) sees eternity as timelessness. Augustine was influenced by this. The Hebraic view is that eternity is an endless duration of time. I gave you verses to show that God is tensed (past, present, future) and that there is time in heaven.
Cal-
You obviously never read your entire Bible, yet you argue as if you know it.:nono:
godrulz is right. There are verses in the Bible that show there is time in heaven, and that God experiences the passing of time, and gains knowledge as time passes. The Bible does not allow for variations here. And one of these days that stick is gonna smack you upside your head, and God will be holding it.:Clete:
You obviously never read your entire Bible, yet you argue as if you know it.:nono:
godrulz is right. There are verses in the Bible that show there is time in heaven, and that God experiences the passing of time, and gains knowledge as time passes. The Bible does not allow for variations here. And one of these days that stick is gonna smack you upside your head, and God will be holding it.:Clete:
Caledvwlch
New member
You're kinda cute when you're threatening violence.lighthouse said:
I threatened no such thing. In fact, didn't even threaten you. I just said that the Truth would smack you upside the head, one day, and that God is the One Who will be wielding it.
Caledvwlch
New member
Ok fair enough. Anyway, back to business, shall we? Just as I cannot prove that God is not bound by time, neither can you prove that He is. That's all I'm trying to say here.lighthouse said:
Can you prove the Biblical stance on this issue? Does the Bible show a God bound by time, or not bound by time? Can you at least answer that question?
Caledvwlch
New member
The Bible doesn't say either way... does it?lighthouse said:
That's just sad. You argue against the Bible, and have no idea what it says.:nono:
Yes, the Bible does say.
Yes, the Bible does say.
Caledvwlch
New member
Ok, help me out then. Point me in the right direction. Where does it say that God is bound by time?lighthouse said:
And as a side note... on this thread, I'm not arguing against the Bible. This is an argument I always enjoyed back in the day... so for the purpose of this thread, the Bible counts for me.
He thought he did but he didn't. You do not understand what Einstien did. I recommend you drop this part of your argument.Caledvwlch said:
Because to say that He did is a contradiction on it's face. All one would need to do in order to demonstrate the contradiction is to ask a single question; a question which lighthouse has already asked. Was there a time when time did not exist? If time was created that would have to be a yes, but there can't be a yes because that would require more time. It's circular as can be and irrational.
Time does not exist. Duration and succession exist and it is those things which we call time but just because we refer to time in the way we do doesn't mean that time exists as a separate thing through which we all travel. You can’t see time, you can’t detect it in a laboratory, it has no mass or energy. You can’t feel, touch, smell or hear its passing. Time is simply an idea, it’s a frame of reference by which we keep track of duration and sequences, nothing more.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Caledvwlch
New member
Ok, I'll drop Einstein.Clete said:
As for the rest of it, how can you assume that God did not create time along with everything else? It doesn't seem fair to assign restraints on a limitless, infinite, unfathomable God.
There is time in heaven:
"And when he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
God changes His mind:
"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them."
God does not know the future, exhaustively:
"And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
Also, don't forget that God tested Abraham's faith, by asking him to sacrafice Isaac. God did not know if Abraham would do it, or else the whole thing is an exercise in futility.
"And when he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour."
-Revelation 8:1
God changes His mind:
"And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them."
-Jonah 3:10
God does not know the future, exhaustively:
"And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
-Genesis 2:19
Also, don't forget that God tested Abraham's faith, by asking him to sacrafice Isaac. God did not know if Abraham would do it, or else the whole thing is an exercise in futility.