Is Faith Without Works Dead?

JudgeRightly

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I know of no issue concerning death or the bible's teaching thereof that is not solved or rendered moot by simply accepting death as a spiritual separation, either from your body (physical death) or from God (spiritual death) or both.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,...​
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,​
I'm short on time and so I'm going to just copy/paste the following from ChatGPT. I've made no attempt to verify but also have no reason to doubt any of the following....



The teaching that death is a form of separation—whether physical, spiritual, or eternal—has roots that trace back to early Christian theology and even into Jewish thought. Here’s an overview:

Jewish Roots

  • The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) often describe death in relational and spiritual terms. For example:
    • Genesis 2:17: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." This verse is commonly interpreted to refer to spiritual death (separation from God) as Adam and Eve were banished from God’s presence after their sin (Genesis 3:22-24).
    • Ecclesiastes 12:7: "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." This reflects the idea of physical death as the separation of body and spirit.

Early Christian Writings

  • New Testament: The concept is explicitly articulated by the apostles.
    • Romans 5:12: Paul links sin to death entering the world, which is often understood as encompassing both spiritual and physical death.
    • Ephesians 2:1-5: Paul describes believers as having been "dead in trespasses and sins" (spiritual death) before being made alive in Christ.
  • Church Fathers: Early Christian theologians like Augustine (4th–5th century) elaborated on these ideas.
    • Augustine taught that physical death resulted from Adam's sin and that spiritual death was the separation from God caused by sin. His writings in The City of God emphasize both forms of separation.
    • He also discussed the "second death" as eternal separation from God, based on Revelation 20:14.

Medieval Theology

  • The teaching persisted through the Middle Ages in the works of theologians like Thomas Aquinas, who viewed physical death as the separation of the soul from the body and spiritual death as separation from God due to sin.

Reformation and Beyond

  • Protestant reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin reaffirmed this understanding, emphasizing spiritual death as humanity’s fallen state apart from Christ and eternal death as the final separation from God for the unredeemed.

Conclusion

The concept of death as separation is deeply rooted in Christian theology and can be traced back to biblical times, gaining further clarity through early church teaching and systematic theology over the centuries. It reflects a consistent interpretation of scripture across various traditions.

Curious to know your thoughts on this:

My comment under the video:
Open this link in a browser, as I'm pretty sure direct links to comments don't work in the mobile app.

And I asked ChatGPT a few questions, seeing if what you and I believe ties into what Joel Korytko says:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6791b968-bccc-8001-ac8f-d9285289f6ed
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
To dig deeper, what does "proceeds from" mean? And is "begotten" a term that applies only to the incarnate Son, so is it an eternally-past applicable term?

I'm OK with that, my question is Why? To what end are you wanting to dig deeper? Because the point is there is distinction between the Persons of the Undivided Trinity. So that is an established fact, we can say confidently, it's not an open question, we do not have to believe it is merely the best looking option rn, but that we are fallible, so maybe one day it'll be controverted. It will never be controverted. It is what we call dogmatically defined dogma. It's the Word of God simpliciter.

So procession and eternality is interesting, I grant you this, it is interesting for me too, but I want to meta-question your question first if that's OK. Could be a potential and inadvertent red herring.

It informs our idea of the eternality of man. If he was made such that he could live forever, but wouldn't necessarily live forever (I think you'll agree he was), then how can we talk about his eternality?

I would just say that the ground was cursed, it isn't necessarily that we aren't still created to live forever, except that the World rn is like sin Chernobyl and there's no escape from its effects, not even Our Lady escaped its harmful energy.

The crucifixion itself was just the coordinating of already existing harmful forces aimed and targeted directly at when Jesus's Earthly ministry was about three years old, which happened to be when He was about thirty-three, which was determined by Our Lady when she decided that it was time for His Earthly ministry to begin, around when He was thirty, when she said, "They have no more wine." She knew exactly what she was doing. It was His time.

But that apostolicity seems to have been limited to the time when the apostles were still alive. I.e., Apostolicity wasn't inheritable in terms of writing new scripture.

But you suffer then from a lack of justification and a foundation for why you accept the table of contents in your Bible, because that is an infallible table of contents, if the Bible is literally the Word of God. So therefore whoever said that's the table of contents said that's the infallible table of contents. So that's infallibility.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
This is what the Body of Christ is. Individual choice.

And you can individually choose to commit. And just about every single Christian up until about 1500 did. You either [cosign a] commitment your parents made for you, on your behalf, like with circumcision with the Old Covenant, or you converted and made the commitment directly yourself. And it was basically the commitment to heed the Apostles. And the Apostles teach still today, just as they always have, through the continuing body (cf. the United States Senate vs. compared to the House) of their bishops.

Once you make the commitment it's like a marriage, it's till death.

Nice try. The anti-catholic bomb is that Mary and Joseph had children after him.

No they didn't. Joseph's brother Clopas also married a Mary (Miriam, Moses's sister's name, was very popular then, just like Jacob, rendered James in our English New Testament). Jesus's "brothers" are his cousins by his uncle Clopas and aunt Mary. James and Jude for example are two of them.

You do if your creator that spoke you into existence says you do.

And if you're a Gentile convert or proselyte to that covenant.
 
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Clete

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JudgeRightly

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I don't see your comment. What is the user name so I can search for it?

I had posted a couple of links to a few of your TOL posts on this topic in it, so it was probably auto-rejected or awaiting approval.

I can't find it in my own comment history, unfortunately, so I'm guessing the former.

 

Clete

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Curious to know your thoughts on this:

My comment under the video:
Open this link in a browser, as I'm pretty sure direct links to comments don't work in the mobile app.

And I asked ChatGPT a few questions, seeing if what you and I believe ties into what Joel Korytko says:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6791b968-bccc-8001-ac8f-d9285289f6ed
Okay, so he equates exile with death. I'm not sure that I buy that conflation but even it if it is valid, I don't see how it's substantively different than being separated from God, especially in the light of the fact that the concept of spiritual death is communicated in several places throughout the bible.

If exile and death are "almost conceptually identical" and "death and exile are conceptually overlapped to the point where they are basically coterminous", as the video states, then our modern day punishment of murders by "exiling" them to prison is the conceptual equivalent of putting them to death. I wonder whether Mr. Korytko would agree with that. I know for certain that I do not!

Also, it really just comes off to me as an example of someone trying to hard to explain something. Making this parallel with exile would be fine if you wanted to enrich the symbolism of the temple by paralleling it with the general layout of Eden and to add a layer of meaning to Israel's exile to Babylon etc but even granting that much validity to this exile/death equivalence, the temple is a picture of Eden, not the actual Eden, and exile is a picture of death, not actual death. God did not warn Adam that he would be exiled, he was warned that he would die.

Further, a major flaw in Mr. Korytko's argument lies in the fact that being exiled from Eden was not their punishment. Their removal from Eden was a secondary consequence....

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.​

Lastly, the bible itself repeatedly speaks of spiritual death...

Genesis 2:17: "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."​
Ecclesiastes 12:7: "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." (Communicates the idea of physical death as the separation of body and spirit.)​
Romans 5:12-21: Paul links sin to death entering the world, which is often understood as encompassing both spiritual and physical death.​
Isaiah 59:2 (NKJV): "But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear."​
This verse explicitly describes the separation caused by sin, which is a hallmark of spiritual death.​
Ezekiel 18:4 (NKJV): "Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die."​
Ephesians 2:1-5 (NKJV): "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world... But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)." Paul describes spiritual death as a past condition of separation from God due to sin.​
Colossians 2:13 (NKJV): "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."​
Similar to Ephesians, this verse emphasizes spiritual death and being made alive through forgiveness in Christ.​
Romans 6:23 (NKJV): "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."​
While it refers to all aspects of death (spiritual, physical, and eternal), the verse highlights spiritual death as a consequence of sin.​
Romans 8:6-7 (NKJV): "For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."​
This contrasts spiritual death (living in separation from God under sin) with spiritual life.​
1 Timothy 5:6 (NKJV): "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives."​
Paul uses this to describe spiritual death—a condition of separation from God even while physically alive.​
James 1:15 (NKJV): "Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."​
This describes the spiritual progression from sin to death, often understood as separation from God.​
Revelation 3:1 (NKJV): "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead."​
Christ rebukes the church at Sardis for their spiritual deadness despite outward appearances.​
 

Derf

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It's interesting that he reads the text as "in the day", then proceeds to always talk about the conflict by saying they didn't die "on the day." Why the switch in terms? Isn't it because he isn't comfortable using the phrase "in the day"? I would propose that the reason he doesn't use "in the day", despite reading it directly from the text that way, is because it doesn't mean the same thing, even to Korytko himself.

But the other thing that argues against his view (that banishment means death) is the mark God gave Cain when He banished him, which was to prevent his untimely physical death. So God "killed" (banished) Cain, but protected him from dying.

This is way more complicated than the scriptures that drive it, since the phrase "in the day" is already used in the same chapter to mean "more than 24 hours".
Genesis 2:4 KJV — These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
If God took 6 days to make the earth and the heavens (including all that is in them), then "in the day"-- the first usage in Gen 2--allows for "day" to be an era rather than 24 hours. So it is for "in the day"--second usage in Gen 2, only 13 verses later:
Genesis 2:17 KJV — But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


And I asked ChatGPT a few questions, seeing if what you and I believe ties into what Joel Korytko says:
https://chatgpt.com/share/6791b968-bccc-8001-ac8f-d9285289f6ed
That's an interesting response. It adds a third type of death to the pile: relational death.
 

Lon

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again. on your Act 15:17-20 comments, we are the same and James is saying the same thing.....Rem, GOD is the author of every word in the Bible....and He is not going to change in the middle of the stream. We are mostly on the same side, simply we differ in the start of the Church that Jesus built and a few other parts.
That isn't what a Mid Acts theologian believes. If you are Covenant Theology, all of scriptures applies to you, land, ox, temple, cattle...

If you are any other kind of Christian, you don't apply everything and recognize quite a bit wasn't written 'directly' to you, but has application indirectly you can draw from, like "Who is God? Why in Acts 15 didn't gentiles have to adopt the Law?" Etc.
 

Bladerunner

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That isn't what a Mid Acts theologian believes. If you are Covenant Theology, all of scriptures applies to you, land, ox, temple, cattle...

If you are any other kind of Christian, you don't apply everything and recognize quite a bit wasn't written 'directly' to you, but has application indirectly you can draw from, like "Who is God? Why in Acts 15 didn't gentiles have to adopt the Law?" Etc.
I believe in the Doctrines of Election. The Mid-Acts theology is in err. The Church (Jesus' Body) started on Pentecost, 50 days after His resurrection. Mid Acts only changes Israel out of YOUR church or the one you are calling His. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was given to the three thousand that day and in-dwelled their body. If you will read and accept the WORD of GOD, you might find that Paul is to preach the Gospel to the Jews First and the Gentile after that. Most all the churches that Paul began were Jewish with exceptions like that Roman Church, etc. I assume you believe in the Pre-trib Rapture, the 1000 years millennium, etc.....We see the things the same way except the building Date of Jesus' Church...No, I do not believe that those that are baptized by the Holy Spirit are in a different church. There is no mention of two or more churches that Jesus built. When Jesus died on that cross, a new dispensation began. the dispensation of the Church, not Grace for Grace has been around since the beginning. All those Jew and Gentile who believe in Jesus and His Gospel are saved receiving the Holy Spirit to live within them. Both of them.......Yes, there is a remnant of Israel that will be saved, found in Rev 12. They will be saved by the hand of Jesus, feed and water for 3.5 years while the rest of the Jewish population dies. All of this before that 1,000 years that Jesus will reign over the earth. We are closer than you think Have a great day.
 

Nick M

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No they didn't. Joseph's brother Clopas also married a Mary (Miriam, Moses's sister's name, was very popular then, just like Jacob, rendered James in our English New Testament). Jesus's "brothers" are his cousins by his uncle Clopas and aunt Mary. James and Jude for example are two of them.
Nope. Only in your perverted (twisted) RCC "Bible". From Mark.

1Then He went out from there and came to His own country, and His disciples followed Him. 2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, “Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands! 3 Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him.

Click here to read what a "brother" is.

Here is the word in question, rendered in English.


Go ahead and put it in a translator and see if it is a cousin. I am doing this for everyone but you.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I believe in the Doctrines of Election.
Who cares? You need to make an ARGUMENT. Your unsupported CLAIMS are useless.
The Mid-Acts theology is in err.
No, it's not. See how that works?
The Church (Jesus' Body) started on Pentecost, 50 days after His resurrection.
There was no "church" that started on that day.

Acts 2:41 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:41) ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church which is His body, the body of Christ, began with Paul. Paul is our PATTERN.

1Tim 1:16 (AKJV/PCE)​
(1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Mid Acts only changes Israel out of YOUR church or the one you are calling His. At Pentecost, the Holy Spirit was given to the three thousand that day and in-dwelled their body. If you will read and accept the WORD of GOD, you might find that Paul is to preach the Gospel to the Jews First and the Gentile after that.
Again, you pretend to quote scripture that does NOT exist. You are a POSER.
Most all the churches that Paul began were Jewish with exceptions like that Roman Church, etc.
Gee, that must be why Paul claims to be the APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES.

Rom 11:13 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:​
Ignoring the rest of your idiotic post.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
Who cares? You need to make an ARGUMENT. Your unsupported CLAIMS are useless.

No, it's not. See how that works?

There was no "church" that started on that day.

Acts 2:41 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:41) ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.
Acts 2:47 (AKJV/PCE)​
(2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church which is His body, the body of Christ, began with Paul. Paul is our PATTERN.

1Tim 1:16 (AKJV/PCE)​
(1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Again, you pretend to quote scripture that does NOT exist. You are a POSER.

Gee, that must be why Paul claims to be the APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES.

Rom 11:13 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:13) For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:​
Ignoring the rest of your idiotic post.
why are you so angry....are you that angry with GOD when you read His word and you do not agree, do you call Him an idiot?
 

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Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Nope. Only in your perverted (twisted) RCC "Bible". From Mark.

1Then He went out from there and came to His own country, and His disciples followed Him. 2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, “Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands! 3 Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him.

Click here to read what a "brother" is.

Here is the word in question, rendered in English.



Go ahead and put it in a translator and see if it is a cousin. I am doing this for everyone but you.

$$ Mt 13:54
And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this [man] this wisdom, and [these] mighty works?
$$ Mt 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

$$ Mt 27:55
And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
$$ Mt 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

$$ Joh 19:25
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

They are Mary and Cleophas's (Clopas's) sons, Jesus's cousins.
 

Bladerunner

Active member
$$ Mt 13:54
And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this [man] this wisdom, and [these] mighty works?
$$ Mt 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

$$ Mt 27:55
And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
$$ Mt 27:56
Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

$$ Joh 19:25
Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the [wife] of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

They are Mary and Cleophas's (Clopas's) sons, Jesus's cousins.
bunch of Mary's not consistent with the Biblical scripture.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Yes, We both believe in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4. It seems both of us are saved.
It's very hard to tell with you, because you ALSO claim that works are REQUIRED.

If that is what you believe, then you are very likely unsaved.
Yet, you continue to call me names..
I have not called you names. Please QUOTE me doing so.
Why, because we don't agree on the Church that Jesus built start date?
I simply point out your total confusion on what the Bible says.
 
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Bladerunner

Active member
It's very hard to tell with you, because you ALSO claim that works are REQUIRED.

If that is what you believe, then you are very likely unsaved.
Thanks for those words. In '1 Cor 15:3-4', a summary of the Gospel of Jesus Christ there is four words stated twice that most people miss. "according to the scriptures" Does this mean that His Gospel is designated only to the Books of Paul. What does it mean that all "scriptures" are part of His Gospel. Is the prophecy of Isaiah 53, the most beautiful rendition of His Gospel in the Bible, part of these scriptures, Paul is speaking of. What about the stormy childhood of Jesus found in the Book of Psalms or maybe the hidden prophecy found in Genesis 5, the Descendants of Adam. There are many many places in Bible and especially the OT where Jesus is found if one looks close enough and it all points to Jesus Christ and His Gospel.

When did the dispensation of the Church begin. Jesus tells us in Luke 16:16.."The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." John the Baptist, met his end in the early pages of Matthew. Thus, no man was under the Law of Moses and would be held accountable to it after John came upon the scene in Matthew chapter 3. I believe the first page of Matthew, The Geneology of Jesus Christ, the Messiah (King) is that beginning. Thus, all that believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ as put forth by Paul in 1 Cor 15:3-4 will be saved regardless of their being Jew or Gentile. In my opinion, they are part of the same Church, the Church that is His Body, His Bride to be.

I could go on but I need to ask you a question: Is your belief that if a person does not believe in the Mid Acts dispensation, that that person is not saved?

While it is obvious that we believe 'the Spiritual Church (His Body, His betrothed Bride) starts in different places in the Bible. Does this make one of us unsaved in your opinion?

I have not called you names. Please QUOTE me doing so.
No need, you already know!
I simply point out your total confusion on what the Bible says.
We both do our best to discern the WORD of GOD while believing in our Lord Jesus Christ's Gospel and Our Savior. Have a Blessed day.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
bunch of Mary's not consistent with the Biblical scripture.

"Bunch of Mary's" is like exactly Biblical Scripture. Who is the famous "other Mary" in the Gospels, in your opinion? And don't forget Mary Magdalene. This was a case of mistaken identity, somebody thought, because evidently Jesus as a boy spent a lot of time with his cousins (so much so that neighbors started to think He was their brother even though He WAS their cousin), that Jesus was brothers with His cousins. It was an accident. It's kind of sweet to think that He would spend days playing with all His cousins who were sons of His Uncle Clopas and Aunt Mary when He was a boy. Uncle Clopas was Joseph's real, full brother, and he too married a Mary. It might sound odd to our ears, and maybe it was then too, but it's clearly not ontologically impossible, which is what the other party might have you believe. What if it's actually the truth, the true nonfiction history of the matter?

The Reformers didn't even question this, which really tells you something about how far away modern Protestantism (Evangelicalism) has strayed from its roots. It's barely the same thing, as far as a movement goes. More and more eccentric as time goes on, hardly a place for a true conservative. If you're conservative in your core, you're shooting yourself in the foot to be Evangelical and not simply a Roman Catholic.

==
OP: " Is Faith Without Works Dead (Faith)? "

Look, it's important to consider exactly what James (the first cousin of Jesus, along with Jude) means by works, and this can be "synced" with today's thoroughly modern (published c. 1992) Catechism of the Catholic Church (JP2's catechism).

The only two things he could mean is satisfying the grave moral obligations, or devotions.

If he means satisfying grave moral obligations by works, all James is saying is that if you're committing grave sin, especially habitually, you better get yourself to Confession as you're under diabolic onslaught rn.

If he means devotions by works, then we just need to recognize that there are untold numbers of devotions that count as a devotion. Other terms for devotions btw are penance and penitential acts, and they are all of the spiritual things that we do as simple Roman Catholics, to help cultivate the gifts of the Holy Spirit which we are all given, not for us personally, but for us the whole Church universally, we are all supposed to benefit from the gifts the Spirit gives to each of us, that are FOR the whole Church. We are waiting for your gifts to manifest too.

If you claim that you believe, but you don't even do a single devotion, like not even making the sign of the cross even once the whole year through, even though you are objectively satisfying all your grave moral obligations, then James is saying there is some reason to doubt your faith.

I find it very hard to believe a genuine original Christian would fail to even make the sign of the cross even once the whole year through, not even once. A nonbeliever—sure.¹ But not a real believer. Why would you fail to do even something so simple and small, but that counts as a devotion, thus escaping James's sharp words?

But nonetheless, devotions are not gravely obligatory for us. So even though we would agree with James ofc that faith literally without any devotions is dead (in that, its initial plausibility is high, and the defeaters offered against it have undefeated defeaters themselves, thus nullifying and blunting them all), it's hard to believe any ontologically true (i.e. not a hypocrite or actor) believer would opt against all supererogatory spiritual behaviors forever. So we don't think he's talking to anybody except unbelievers here.


¹ Those are the people who show up to Mass but only right before the presenting of the gifts, leaving immediately after the Victim is first consumed (everything beyond this window is supererogatory and thus devotion), except for precisely one Mass during Easter time when they receive Communion, just under one species, as receiving under both is supererogatory and therefore devotion or penance, with no spiritual acts like genuflection or crossing themselves with holy water, not even participating in the standing and kneeling devotions so universally popular among us—almost everybody does those. So this hypothetical person just doesn't exist is what I'm saying. ³Nobody goes to the trouble of satisfying their Mass obligation but doesn't first of all truly believe, and second of all ³refuses to even raise a finger wrt devotions like reading the Bible, praying, blessing your food, giving money, singing during hymns, etc. God loves a cheerful giver.

And then ofc the alternative, that James means satisfying your grave obligations as works, and this I think is more likely. (At least, on the surface.)²


² So working beneath the surface, what James would have to mean is that if you're not satisfying your grave obligations, then you should worry about whether your faith is real. This is sharp language. But so how do we understand this, using JP2's Catechism as our handbook? By understanding the ontology of grave sin (such as failing to satisfy your Mass obligation). There are a whole lot of non-diabolic reasons why we gravely sin, if or when we gravely sin. That's first off, but mainly the issue becomes more about habitual grave sin, or grave sin binges. If all you do is live a life of perpetual grave sin, then James here is saying, perhaps your faith is dead, and that's why. And together with our Catechism we can also say, that if you're gravely sinning habitually, but you know yourself to believe in Jesus, then you're under diabolic onslaught, taking heavy casualties in the spiritual war, so get to Confession for some sweet sweet exorcism. Extra grace, free of charge. All you need do is honestly confess type of grave sin, and the number of times committed, and make an act of contrition, which is easily accomplished by reading aloud the traditional act of contrition, sometimes even provided for you in the physical confessional. You'll be absolved and given penance, do the penance, and you're good to go. You've been exorcised. Your job now is to avoid getting attacked again, and that means a firm commitment to amendment, and that means avoiding near occasion of that particular sin. The most common example is a drunk, and avoiding the near occasion of sin for him is going to be to not hang around liquor stores or bars. That's where his diabolic opponents wait for him. So he doesn't go there, and then he won't need to go back to Confession, which is the goal here. To stay out of the confessional. That's the goal for simple Roman Catholics. That means satisfy your grave obligations. And we read James as saying that grave sins are super-duper important to not do, and if you do do them, then get to Confession. This is the much more likely interpretation rather than that James is saying if you don't pray or sing hymns or close your eyes when you pray or kneel or cross yourself or whatever other devotions there are, like visiting shrines or going on pilgrammages, then you should question your faith. I find that much less likely as I tried to explain above.³
 

Clete

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OP: " Is Faith Without Works Dead (Faith)? "

Look, it's important to consider exactly what James (the first cousin of Jesus, along with Jude) means by works, and this can be "synced" with today's thoroughly modern (published c. 1992) Catechism of the Catholic Church (JP2's catechism).
OR you can just read it and take it to mean what it is obviously saying and that any ten year old child can understand.
 
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