Is evolution science?

[aharvey]

I think that would be common descent Bob. If hermit crabs evolved from hard-shelled crabs then you can make predictions about aspects of their physiology that may have originally been unknown.

That's the right idea, only in this case it was the evolution of shell-less hermit crabs from typical hermit crabs that allowed me to make predictions about aspects of their development that were previously unknown. I can provide a more detailed explanation if necessary. In doing so, though, I don't want to lose track of the original point, which was that evolutionary predictions are proper scientific predictions and not "post-dictions."

 

[bob b]

That's the right idea, only in this case it was the evolution of shell-less hermit crabs from typical hermit crabs that allowed me to make predictions about aspects of their development that were previously unknown. I can provide a more detailed explanation if necessary. In doing so, though, I don't want to lose track of the original point, which was that evolutionary predictions are proper scientific predictions and not "post-dictions."

And you should not lose track of the point that creationists frequently make that muations plus natural selection can and does cause changes to occur, but that doesn't necessrily mean that all life has descended from a hypothetical primitive protocell.

BTW, I would be interested in the case you mention if you would kindly take the time to explain more details for us. Sounds interesting.

But remember this important point, all life we see today undoubtedly did have to diversity fairly quickly from those first biblical kinds, because there was only 17-27 centuries from the "beginning" to the Flood, and then only another 43 centuries or so since then to generate all the fantastic variety we see today.

(See my posting on METHINKS IT IS (LIKE) A WEASEL to see the clue that may help deliver people from their evolutionary "rut" of thinking.)

 

[billwald]

Which of you IDers support an expedition to Mars to search for artifacts?

 

[Jukia]

Which of you IDers support an expedition to Mars to search for artifacts?

Isn't there are recent article in a popular science magazine that indicates that cosmic rays in interplanetary space will make it mucho difficult to send human beings to mars absent very extensive (read heavy and expensive to get into orbit) shielding?

 

[aharvey]

And you should not lose track of the point that creationists frequently make that muations plus natural selection can and does cause changes to occur, but that doesn't necessrily mean that all life has descended from a hypothetical primitive protocell.

Sounds like another red herring to me. What does this have to do with "predictions" vs "post-dictions"?

BTW, I would be interested in the case you mention if you would kindly take the time to explain more details for us. Sounds interesting.

Will do.

But remember this important point, all life we see today undoubtedly did have to diversity fairly quickly from those first biblical kinds, because there was only 17-27 centuries from the "beginning" to the Flood, and then only another 43 centuries or so since then to generate all the fantastic variety we see today.

Gee, I would have thought Haldane's dilemma would place some rather drastic constraints on the rate of this diversification. You remember, how you argued that each mutation would require 300 generations to become fixed in a population? So, while "creationists frequently make [the point] that muations plus natural selection can and does cause changes to occur," it's hard to see that this could have much of anything to do with within-Kind or post-Flood differentiation.

 

[koban]

Isn't there are recent article in a popular science magazine that indicates that cosmic rays in interplanetary space will make it mucho difficult to send human beings to mars absent very extensive (read heavy and expensive to get into orbit) shielding?

Haven't seen the article, but would that be past the influence of the solar winds?

 

[billwald]

Life presents problems and challanges. Begs the question. Any IDer support any effort to discover another physical (not angellic/satanic) intelligence in this universe?

 

[bob b]

Gee, I would have thought Haldane's dilemma would place some rather drastic constraints on the rate of this diversification. You remember, how you argued that each mutation would require 300 generations to become fixed in a population? So, while "creationists frequently make [the point] that muations plus natural selection can and does cause changes to occur," it's hard to see that this could have much of anything to do with within-Kind or post-Flood differentiation.

Creationists do not disagree that mutations do occur.

However that does not mean that changes in lifeforms are necessarily limited to be only the result of mutations.

Of course one must always keep in mind that the definition itself of what a mutation is may be somewhat "begging the question".

 

[aharvey]

Creationists do not disagree that mutations do occur.

However that does not mean that changes in lifeforms are necessarily limited to be only the result of mutations.

Well, yes, that was rather my point. If you're going to argue your particular interpretation of Haldane's dilemma (i.e., each mutation requires 300 generations to become fixed in a population), then either there are other ways to generate variability needed for "lifeforms" (what is this, Star Trek?) to "change" other than mutations or pretty much all species that have ever existed originated in virtually their present form. Since we know you don't believe the latter, and I presume you argued in favor of that interpretation of Haldane's dilemma because you believe it's a real problem, that leaves us to inquire what else generates variability within populations besides mutation?

It should go without saying, but to be safe, you are talking about heritable variability, right? Changes, and thus differences, lacking a genetic basis seem pretty irrelevant here, although I'd be most interested to learn otherwise.