ECT Is Christianity dead ?

[Gary K]

Doesn't that business deal scenario ring true in today's church world ? It's all about blessing me , for me .

As i stated the wide path.

It has always been like that. The Israelites obeyed God for what they could get, and when they would become wealthy they would go to worshipping idols and living a very hedonistic life style until God would allow their enemies to conquer them. Then the cycle would start all over again. The Jews of Christ's day were in it for the wealth too. They looked for a Messiah who would conquer and enslave the hated Romans making them the wealthy, powerful, people of the earth.

It is a failing common to humanity, not just today's church.

 

[Danoh]

It has always been like that. The Israelites obeyed God for what they could get, and when they would become wealthy they would go to worshipping idols and living a very hedonistic life style until God would allow their enemies to conquer them. Then the cycle would start all over again. The Jews of Christ's day were in it for the wealth too. They looked for a Messiah who would conquer and enslave the hated Romans making them the wealthy, powerful, people of the earth.

It is a failing common to humanity, not just today's church.

Their focus may have been off; but one should not conclude from that, that the Lord's actual promise to them as to their enemies was also not the case.

To do so is to call the Spirit by which the following was spoken, a liar.

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

That is what lacking in sound information (ignorance) results in - speaking against the Spirit and His Word: The Scripture of Truth, on such things.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

THAT IS THEIR PROMISED Redemption FROM THEIR enemies.

Twist it how your obvious ignorance on this might and up doing, the fact of the matter concerning their promised deliverance from His/their enemies is...

Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Your obvious ignorance, or lacking in sound information on this issue, is one long ago warned against...

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Two issues in all that, there in Romans 11:

1, that although He was not through with Israel, but was simply not moving His promise to them forward;

2, neither was His not dealing with them as to His promise unto them, His having left them out in the cold of eternal damnation.

In both cases, they are still on His heart.

Thus, His provision towards them, no matter what aspect of His overall plans and purpose He might presently be carrying out.

THIS is in fact, the very purpose behind why Paul even brought all that up, in the midst of all that grace he was going on and on about as to the Body, not only in all those chapters just prior to Romans 9 thru 11, but in those chapters just after those three - "lest ye" (everyone of us) "be wise in your own conceits" as to God's promise unto Jacob.

As He had said to them through one of their prophets concerning that great and terrible day of His wrath...

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

You see that - but because I AM THE LORD - MEANING I - change - NOT - THEREFORE YE SONS OF JACOB are NOT...consumed.

HERE that reminder - to the HEBREWS is AGAIN...

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you.

 

[Gary K]

Their focus may have been off; but one should not conclude from that, that the Lord's actual promise to them as to their enemies was also not the case.

To do so is to call the Spirit by which the following was spoken, a liar.

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

That is what lacking in sound information (ignorance) results in - speaking against the Spirit and His Word: The Scripture of Truth, on such things.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

THAT IS THEIR PROMISED Redemption FROM THEIR enemies.

Twist it how your obvious ignorance on this might and up doing, the fact of the matter concerning their promised deliverance from His/their enemies is...

Isaiah 59:18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Your obvious ignorance, or lacking in sound information on this issue, is one long ago warned against...

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Two issues in all that, there in Romans 11:

1, that although He was not through with Israel, but was simply not moving His promise to them forward;

2, neither was His not dealing with them as to His promise unto them, His having left them out in the cold of eternal damnation.

In both cases, they are still on His heart.

Thus, His provision towards them, no matter what aspect of His overall plans and purpose He might presently be carrying out.

THIS is in fact, the very purpose behind why Paul even brought all that up, in the midst of all that grace he was going on and on about as to the Body, not only in all those chapters just prior to Romans 9 thru 11, but in those chapters just after those three - "lest ye" (everyone of us) "be wise in your own conceits" as to God's promise unto Jacob.

As He had said to them through one of their prophets concerning that great and terrible day of His wrath...

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

You see that - but because I AM THE LORD - MEANING I - change - NOT - THEREFORE YE SONS OF JACOB are NOT...consumed.

HERE that reminder - to the HEBREWS is AGAIN...

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:8 towards you.

What does all that have to do with what I said? It seems you like to ignore the entire Old Testament history of the Isrealites/Jews and claim they didn't cycle through accepting God's blessings and becoming well off financially, then backsliding and falling into idolatry, being defeated militarily by the nations around them and being made their slaves, repenting from their disobedience and returning to worshiping God which brought deliverance from their enemies, and once more becoming well off financially. Their entire history is filled with this.

Joshua dies and what happens? They fall into idolatry. A neighboring nation enslaves them. The people call upon God and God raises up a deliverer. They worship God again for a while until they become comfortable in their posessions and another nation defeats and enslaves them. They call upon God and He once again raises up a deliverer. They worship God for a while again, and the scenario just keeps on repeating itself. The entire book of Judges is a history of this. And once they choose a king, what happens? The same cycle all over again with kings faithful to God and kings unfaithful to God.

Why you should want to deny the history of the Israelites and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah is beyond me. The Bible is very clear on this.

I'll give you some Bible references on the subject: The books of: Exodus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings, I and II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, and that ought to be enough to prove my point even though I haven't gone all the way through the Minor Prophets yet. They all documented the falling away from following God, and God's threatenings and punishments for their backsliding.

Pretty ironic that you tell me I'm ignoring some scriptures, that have nothing to do at all with what I said, and you ignore basically the entire Old Testament and the history of Israel and Judah which confirm every word I said..

 

[Danoh]

What does all that have to do with what I said? It seems you like to ignore the entire Old Testament history of the Isrealites/Jews and claim they didn't cycle through accepting God's blessings and becoming well off financially, then backsliding and falling into idolatry, being defeated militarily by the nations around them and being made their slaves, repenting from their disobedience and returning to worshiping God which brought deliverance from their enemies, and once more becoming well off financially. Their entire history is filled with this.

Joshua dies and what happens? They fall into idolatry. A neighboring nation enslaves them. The people call upon God and God raises up a deliverer. They worship God again for a while until they become comfortable in their posessions and another nation defeats and enslaves them. They call upon God and He once again raises up a deliverer. They worship God for a while again, and the scenario just keeps on repeating itself. The entire book of Judges is a history of this. And once they choose a king, what happens? The same cycle all over again with kings faithful to God and kings unfaithful to God.

Why you should want to deny the history of the Israelites and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah is beyond me. The Bible is very clear on this.

I'll give you some Bible references on the subject: The books of: Exodus, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, I and II Samuel, I and II Kings, I and II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, and that ought to be enough to prove my point even though I haven't gone all the way through the Minor Prophets yet. They all documented the falling away from following God, and God's threatenings and punishments for their backsliding.

Pretty ironic that you tell me I'm ignoring some scriptures, that have nothing to do at all with what I said, and you ignore basically the entire Old Testament and the history of Israel and Judah which confirm every word I said..

My point was that your "They looked for a Messiah who would conquer and enslave the hated Romans making them the wealthy, powerful, people of the earth" does not mean they were wrong about their promise, just skewed in their perception of how all that was to have worked out - but for its delay once more.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Obviously, said times of political Gentile dominion has continued to this very day.

He was referring to a prophecy concerning said Gentile political dominion over them, that they were then under once more, how it would turn out, and that would one day forever end free of any Gentile dominion over them ever again, at last; Isaiah 66; Daniel 9, etc.

Rom. 5:8.

 

[Cross Reference]

It has always been like that. The Israelites obeyed God for what they could get, and when they would become wealthy they would go to worshipping idols and living a very hedonistic life style until God would allow their enemies to conquer them. Then the cycle would start all over again. The Jews of Christ's day were in it for the wealth too. They looked for a Messiah who would conquer and enslave the hated Romans making them the wealthy, powerful, people of the earth.

It is a failing common to humanity, not just today's church.

Amen!

 

[Cross Reference]

Is God here not speaking of "Leprosy"?:

“Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." Isaiah 1:18 (ESV)

What is the end of leprosy?

 

[Gary K]

My point was that your "They looked for a Messiah who would conquer and enslave the hated Romans making them the wealthy, powerful, people of the earth" does not mean they were wrong about their promise, just skewed in their perception of how all that was to have worked out - but for its delay once more.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Obviously, said times of political Gentile dominion has continued to this very day.

He was referring to a prophecy concerning said Gentile political dominion over them, that they were then under once more, how it would turn out, and that would one day forever end free of any Gentile dominion over them ever again, at last; Isaiah 66; Daniel 9, etc.

Rom. 5:8.

I think you are still under a misunderstanding, but that misunderstanding of scripture is a subject too complex to be addressed in this thread. If you really want to address this you'll have to start another thread. Suffice it to say that many of God's prophecies are conditional. An example of that is "my house shall be called a house of prayer for all people" found in Isaiah. Now, however, the temple has been destroyed and the sacrificial system done away with, so there is no further need for a physical temple. And, Jesus told the Jews, your house is left unto desolate. God abandoned the Jewish temple. God's temple is now the living bodies of His people. The prophecy concerning the temple was conditional upon how the Jews, as a nation, would respond to the leading of God.

 

[Cross Reference]

Perhaps it was hidden from you. Perhaps you're just now discovering the deeper meaning of believing. That's great, but it isn't a mystery, and I'm not aware of any particular person who needs to rediscover it's depth.

Actually, there have been threads on this issue in the past, so I wish you the best as you enlist the attention of others. Just know, there are many on here who understand that believing is of the heart, an understanding of the inner man, and not the intellect.

And such a "heart" can only manifest itself towards Christ Jesus if purified, something for which a "believer" is held accountable. You are a believer, right?

 

[Cross Reference]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: . . . . . . " John 6:44 (KJV)


To be drawn to God is to believe He exists in the world we witness in our daily lives, things easily believed upon as being designed and miracluusly brought into existence for man's survival and inbred knowledge of right and wrong . . and with a hope; insight into living beyond the ability of man to perform yet craves. Once convinced of God by that 'light', he must then be presented the account of Jesus Christ Who is able to help him "connect the dots". "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, . . . . . " Matthew 28:19 (ESV)

 

[Faither]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: . . . . . . " John 6:44 (KJV)


To be drawn to God is to believe He exists in the world we witness in our daily lives, things easily believed upon as being designed and miracluusly brought into existence for man's survival and inbred knowledge of right and wrong . . and with a hope; insight into living beyond the ability of man to perform yet craves. Once convinced of God by that 'light', he must then be presented the account of Jesus Christ Who is able to help him "connect the dots". "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, . . . . . " Matthew 28:19 (ESV)

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: . . . . . . " John 6:44 (KJV)

I see the Fathers drawing us to Christ in many different ways , including the example you posted . But whatever the circumstances are in which he draws us there is a universal desire that would happen in all of them . The desire , i understand it to be i just "want" to know Him. At the start it would be just to know anything about Christ or as the drawing matures it would be to know Christ better . That desire never leaves us as long as were continually surrendering our lives to Him . ( faithing )

This drawing by the Father could even have happened to people before Gods Word was widely known. God the Father draws someone , no Word of God yet , but the desire to know God based on how the Father drew them would be the same . They just want to know more about what it is thats drawing me or making contact with me so to speak .

This is also the perfect example of why Faith and faithing can't be built on Gods Word alone as most understand it today . It has to be built on God "Himself ". What ever works for NT Faith today , had to have worked before Gods Word was available to most of the population .

 

[glorydaz]

And such a "heart" can only manifest itself towards Christ Jesus if purified, something for which a "believer" is held accountable. You are a believer, right?

We aren't accountable for a "purified" heart, as we trust in the Lord to perform His work in us.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

 

[Cross Reference]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: . . . . . . " John 6:44 (KJV)

I see the Fathers drawing us to Christ 

No one can to me without first having the desire to know God. My Father in response will make a way, if necessary by that which might be construed as being His Divine purpose for such an individual, where there seems to be no way in which case we might expect a preacher to show up.

. . . . . . But whatever the circumstances are in which he draws us there is a universal desire that would happen in all of them. The desire , i understand it to be i just "want" to know Him.

Perhaps “to know Him” but for sure he will know “my Redeemer lives” because that much from God will come because of the seeking after righteousness from the individual.

At the start it would be just to know anything about Christ or as the drawing matures it would be to know Christ better.


Would that have been the result of desire found in the OT?




That desire never leaves us as long as were continually surrendering our lives to Him . ( faithing )

For the NT saint who is born again. Why else?

This drawing by the Father could even have happened to people before Gods Word was widely known.

Only by observation. That is what the great commission is all about, isn't it?

God the Father draws someone , no Word of God yet , but the desire to know God based on how the Father drew them would be the same .

Based upon what that must be visible, the Spirit being not yet given?

They just want to know more about what it is thats drawing me or making contact with me so to speak .

Maybe. But not unless that which they place their faith has substance that would be provided from personalities in evidence.

This is also the perfect example of why Faith and faithing can't be built on Gods Word alone as most understand it today . It has to be built on God "Himself ". What ever works for NT Faith today , had to have worked before Gods Word was available to most of the population.



Why not all the population? Where do you draw the line since Jesus is the “Word” in Glorified flesh?

Just askin" . . .

 

[Faither]

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: . . . . . . " John 6:44 (KJV)



Perhaps “to know Him” but for sure he will know “my Redeemer lives” because that much from God will come because of the seeking after righteousness from the individual.




Would that have been the result of desire found in the OT?




For the NT saint who is born again. Why else?



Only by observation. That is what the great commission is all about, isn't it?



Based upon what that must be visible, the Spirit being not yet given?



Maybe. But not unless that which they place their faith has substance that would be provided from personalities in evidence.





Why not all the population? Where do you draw the line since Jesus is the “Word” in Glorified flesh?

Just askin" . . .

 

[Faither]

If i were to Faithe ( continually surrender my life ) into Christ , His Word ( or Him ) becomes mine to claim . If i were to Faithe into His Word first , ( continually surrender my life ) Christ can't be mine . The paradox can only work on the narrow path , right .

 

[Faither]

Remember Rom 8:9 where it gives us a standard so to speak of reality . If we don't have the Spirit of Christ , Christ is none of ours . If Christ is none of ours , His Word can't be ours either . So with that said we could never be in a position to claim Gods Word until we are in Him first . And that would happen by faithing into Him , and not the written word. Paradoxically ( in Gods framework of understanding )they are the same but only when we are in Him and He is in us .

 

[Gary K]

We aren't accountable for a "purified" heart, as we trust in the Lord to perform His work in us.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

While I will agree with you somewhat, we also have to look at everything Paul says on the subject, and the following verses modify Phillipians 1:6. I don't say, do away with. I say, modify it.

The translations that put verses together in paragraphs, which are the boundaries of one thought in grammar, put the verses I quote below together.

ICorinthians 15: 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Notice that the central verse to this passage is Paul saying he "dies daily". And notice that he ties this to his continuing walk with God and thus his salvation in the rest of chapter for he is addressing the same issue from verse 12 all the way through to the end of the chapter. So, the context of "I die daily" is in the context of dying daily to the flesh and living according to the new life of the Spirit found in Jesus. He is saying this is a must for he does not want to be a castaway:

ICorinthians 9: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[Cross Reference]

We aren't accountable for a "purified" heart, as we trust in the Lord to perform His work in us.

Really?? And how do you suppose He can perform without your cooperation . . and that only from a purified heart?

Philippians 1:6
Being confident, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

Against your will?????

Why not learn to understand what you read before commenting. I.e., "Being confident of this very thing by His Life in you that because of YOUR uncompromising love TO Him has enabled Him to accomplish by that same uncompromising love TO Him so much so that HIS finished work in YOU can be now be completed even unto the day of Jesus Christ"

It is all about love, dazed, YOUR love To Him. Ya there yet? There is no "cheap Grace" in this, dazed. There is a price to pay . . . . YOUR life.

 

[glorydaz]

While I will agree with you somewhat, we also have to look at everything Paul says on the subject, and the following verses modify Phillipians 1:6. I don't say, do away with. I say, modify it.

The translations that put verses together in paragraphs, which are the boundaries of one thought in grammar, put the verses I quote below together.



Notice that the central verse to this passage is Paul saying he "dies daily". And notice that he ties this to his continuing walk with God and thus his salvation in the rest of chapter for he is addressing the same issue from verse 12 all the way through to the end of the chapter. So, the context of "I die daily" is in the context of dying daily to the flesh and living according to the new life of the Spirit found in Jesus. He is saying this is a must for he does not want to be a castaway:

I don't believe that is the context at all, because Paul never takes any credit for his salvation. "I die daily" is referring to his actually being close to death over and over again. It's physical death and resurrection that is being discussed there.

Rather back to his point in Phil. where he is talking about our being God's workmanship. Even the fruits of righteousness are by Him. "Phil. 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God".

 

[Cross Reference]

If i were to Faithe ( continually surrender my life ) into Christ , His Word ( or Him ) becomes mine to claim . If i were to Faithe into His Word first , ( continually surrender my life ) Christ can't be mine . The paradox can only work on the narrow path , right .

How 'bout If we just live by His Life, wouldn't that be better? One's new birth being the beginning and we can only enter as a babe to learn the Father as Jesus did. . . The "First of First fruits". . .

 

[glorydaz]

Against your will?????

Why not learn to understand what you read before commenting. I.e., "Being confident of this very thing by His Life in you that because of YOUR uncompromising love TO Him has enabled Him to accomplish by that same uncompromising love TO Him so much so that HIS finished work in YOU can be now be completed even unto the day of Jesus Christ"

It is all about love, dazed, YOUR love To Him. Ya there yet? There is no "cheap Grace" in this, dazed. There is a price to pay . . . . YOUR life.

Why am I not surprised you would twist what I said....your lack of understanding never ceases to amaze me. Choke on the verse as it's written, and rewrite it according to your own silly understanding if you must, but save your self-righteous indignation for those who are interested.

My love has enabled Him to accomplish.... :rotfl:

What in the world would the Lord do without our help?