ECT Is Christianity dead ?

Faither

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I hope the title of this thread doesn't cause you to think i'm anti Christian. I've been seeking to know Christ better for over 30 years with every part of my being . During these 30 years i've not only been having what i call the born again relationship with Christ , i've also have had what could be the best teacher of Scripture in the last 400 years.

It started in 1987 when i did something someone told me to do to try and help me get out of a tough time in my life. I did what this person suggested and things began to happen. Feeling the presence of Christ , the desire to know Him always increasing , wanting to give to others in need instead of serving myself. The list goes on and on , getting into Scriptural evidence that Christ is truely indwelling my being.

This experience has of course driven me to share this truth with others , much like a watchman would. This is why i've asked if Christianity is dead .

We could talk about a million ways one could have that real true connection with Christ , but i think most of us would agree it boils down to "Faith."

In and around the 1500's the Greek texts were being translated into the English language. The Greek language has a noun "pistis" and is where we get the english word "Faith". Faith is a person , place or thing . Pistis is used around 250 times in the NT.

The Greek texts also have a verb "pisteuo" , also used around 250 times . A problem arose for the translators when the English language had no word to translate the Greek verb for Faith . The words the English language should have had are faithe , faither , and faithing. Being a verb this Greek word pisteuo is and act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidense.

What is the specific act , based upon what specific belief , and sustained by what kind of confidense , that could start a one on one relationship with Christ by receiving His Spirit ?

We find the answer in the Vines Greek dictionary and reads , "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Now with this ground work laid , what really happened when the translators did not have a word in the English to correctly communicate "pisteuo" ?

In retrospect , the translators would have been better off to cease translating the Greek texts into english , because the damage their decision would create causes not only the "wide path" but could also destroy the only way to have a one on one relationship with Christ.

The translators chose to use the words believe , believer , and believing . Now if you go back and see the definition of what a verb is , these words only communicate that true "pisteuo" is part of a verb. It doesn't communicate what the specific act of faithing is to start , maintain , and complete a relationship with Christ here on earth.

As the result of this "mistranslation" most of the church world understands that the true path to receiving the Spirit of Christ is by believing in Gods Word which couldn't be farther from the truth. True pisteuo is a continual surrendering of our lives to Christ , "and" making all the little a big daily decisions supporting that surrender. It's not our life any more , but His .

What we have in todays church world is a pisteuo that doesn't require a continual surrendering of our lives to Him. So in accually one could have a relationship with Christ and still keep their own life serving themselves . This is the wide path and will never result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

As Rom 8:9 tells us , if we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us , and we in Him , Christ is none of ours . If Christ is none of ours , His Word can't be ours either. That means that anyone who has not been continually surrendering their lives to Christ can never recieve His Spirit , making Christ and His Word and the promises there-in none of theirs.

Yet todays church world knows the Scriptures inside and out and it not theirs yet because of the above facts.

Is Christianity lost to time ?
 

Faither

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True Christianity and the application of Faith that results in the recieving of the Spirit of Christ can be summed up in these two prayers.

God i offer myself to thee , to have with me and build with me as thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self that i may better do thy will. Take away my difficulties , that victory over them may bare witness to those would help of thy power , thy Love , and thy way of life . may i do thy will allways . Amen

My creator , i am now willing that you should have all of me good and bad . I pray that you should remove from me every single defect of character that stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows Grant me strength as i go out from here to do thy bidding , Amen

These prayers are an example of true NT pisteuo. What i am presenting has been lost to time.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I think you're wrong. True believers know how to commune with the Lord, we are His workmanship. He doesn't need to be told what we are willing to do....He makes us willing.
 

Faither

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I think you're wrong. True believers know how to commune with the Lord, we are His workmanship. He doesn't need to be told what we are willing to do....He makes us willing.

Theres no such thing as a "believer". I provided my facts to support this as best i could . But i respect your right to have your own understanding .

Your reply would be true only after we have correctly faithed into him as i have stated . Your reply would be false if we've never faithed into Him. "Believing" is a mistranslation and will never result in being in Christ. A half measure avails nothing.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Theres no such thing as a "believer". I provided my facts to support this as best i could . But i respect your right to have your own understanding .

Your reply would be true only after we have correctly faithed into him as i have stated . Your reply would be false if we've never faithed into Him. "Believing" is a mistranslation and will never result in being in Christ. A half measure avails nothing.

Oh great, another Truster with his made up definitions. No, you've proven nothing. You've fallen for your own nonsense, and now you're trying to pass it off as truth.


"There is no such thing as a believer." Let's see how many swallow that garbage. :yawn:
 

Faither

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Oh great, another Truster with his made up definitions. No, you've proven nothing. You've fallen for your own nonsense, and now you're trying to pass it off as truth.


"There is no such thing as a believer." Let's see how many swallow that garbage. :yawn:

Vines definition of "pisteuo" used 248 times . "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Theres no such thing as a "believer". I provided my facts to support this as best i could . But i respect your right to have your own understanding .

Your reply would be true only after we have correctly faithed into him as i have stated . Your reply would be false if we've never faithed into Him. "Believing" is a mistranslation and will never result in being in Christ. A half measure avails nothing.


Hi and anyone who looks up the Greek word BELIEVER / PISTOS will see that that Greek word has many meaning , like many other Greek words and are a Transliteration !!

BELIEVER / PISTOS can be translated by the following , BELIEVE , BELIEVING , TRUE , BELIEVER , SURE and I read where he saw it to be SURRENDER and is not the primary meaning !!

In 1 Tim 4:12 it is translated BELIEVERS !!

Maybe HE will call him a HYBRID TOO !!

Dictionaries are not God inspired BUT sometimes , we can find a better word to use , but not here !!

dan p
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Is Christianity dead?

No, for many it is dormant stagnant,

But for those who believe scripture, it is life as it was meant to be in this age of grace
 

Faither

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Vine's is fine but it falls short if that's their definition.

A believer's definition.....trust.

You can list out all the things trust causes one to do and to think, but that doesn't mean the word itself needs to change.

It already has changed , thats why i'm shouting it from the mountain top. The English changed pisteuo from complete surrender to a simple belief .

What i'm asking you to consider isn't a new truth i've made up , i'm asking you to rediscover an old truth , the original truth.
 

Faither

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:chuckle: Obviously, the guy cherry picked the thing...

http://studybible.info/vines/Faith

Nevertheless, Faither, Romans 5:8 towards ya:)

Thanks danoh , other than all the things you've pointed out that are wrong with me in the past , i can't help but wonder why 2 guys like you and me who are obviously on fire to know Christ better can't find a place to have a productive discussion. Thats all i've ever wanted here from this group.

Is there a chance we could find that place ?
 

Faither

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Is Christianity dead?

No, for many it is dormant stagnant,

But for those who believe scripture, it is life as it was meant to be in this age of grace

Am i correct to say you don't accept all i've presented about pisteuo and how it was mistranslated ?

I've put alot of my understandings out on the table for you to test . Can you go further than just disagreeing ? maybe you could show me something that would give me a better knowledge of Him .
 

Danoh

New member
Thanks danoh , other than all the things you've pointed out that are wrong with me in the past , i can't help but wonder why 2 guys like you and me who are obviously on fire to know Christ better can't find a place to have a productive discussion. Thats all i've ever wanted here from this group.

Is there a chance we could find that place ?

If you can out up with my incessant ribbing :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
It already has changed , thats why i'm shouting it from the mountain top. The English changed pisteuo from complete surrender to a simple belief .

What i'm asking you to consider isn't a new truth i've made up , i'm asking you to rediscover an old truth , the original truth.

Perhaps it was hidden from you. Perhaps you're just now discovering the deeper meaning of believing. That's great, but it isn't a mystery, and I'm not aware of any particular person who needs to rediscover it's depth.

Actually, there have been threads on this issue in the past, so I wish you the best as you enlist the attention of others. Just know, there are many on here who understand that believing is of the heart, an understanding of the inner man, and not the intellect. :)
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Am i correct to say you don't accept all i've presented about pisteuo and how it was mistranslated ?

I've put alot of my understandings out on the table for you to test . Can you go further than just disagreeing ? maybe you could show me something that would give me a better knowledge of Him .

I'm sorry if I missed your intent here.

Perhaps you could begin by talking about ways you've grown through your trust in the Lord. I always think of the "believe in your heart" phrase as a wonderful starting point. Lots of people know what it means to "believe something to be so", but the absolute certainty that a heart-felt deep-down knowing is another thing. Being fully persuaded....against all hope, as Abraham had. Romans 4:18KJV And that is what you're talking about, isn't it? It's an important topic. Only true believers know the reality of that phrase.
 

Faither

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Perhaps it was hidden from you. Perhaps you're just now discovering the deeper meaning of believing. That's great, but it isn't a mystery, and I'm not aware of any particular person who needs to rediscover it's depth.

Actually, there have been threads on this issue in the past, so I wish you the best as you enlist the attention of others. Just know, there are many on here who understand that believing is of the heart, an understanding of the inner man, and not the intellect. :)

I have no doubt about that and that your desires are genuine.
 

turbosixx

New member
I hope the title of this thread doesn't cause you to think i'm anti Christian. I've been seeking to know Christ better for over 30 years with every part of my being . During these 30 years i've not only been having what i call the born again relationship with Christ , i've also have had what could be the best teacher of Scripture in the last 400 years.

It started in 1987 when i did something someone told me to do to try and help me get out of a tough time in my life. I did what this person suggested and things began to happen. Feeling the presence of Christ , the desire to know Him always increasing , wanting to give to others in need instead of serving myself. The list goes on and on , getting into Scriptural evidence that Christ is truely indwelling my being.

This experience has of course driven me to share this truth with others , much like a watchman would. This is why i've asked if Christianity is dead .

We could talk about a million ways one could have that real true connection with Christ , but i think most of us would agree it boils down to "Faith."

In and around the 1500's the Greek texts were being translated into the English language. The Greek language has a noun "pistis" and is where we get the english word "Faith". Faith is a person , place or thing . Pistis is used around 250 times in the NT.

The Greek texts also have a verb "pisteuo" , also used around 250 times . A problem arose for the translators when the English language had no word to translate the Greek verb for Faith . The words the English language should have had are faithe , faither , and faithing. Being a verb this Greek word pisteuo is and act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidense.

What is the specific act , based upon what specific belief , and sustained by what kind of confidense , that could start a one on one relationship with Christ by receiving His Spirit ?

We find the answer in the Vines Greek dictionary and reads , "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."

Now with this ground work laid , what really happened when the translators did not have a word in the English to correctly communicate "pisteuo" ?

In retrospect , the translators would have been better off to cease translating the Greek texts into english , because the damage their decision would create causes not only the "wide path" but could also destroy the only way to have a one on one relationship with Christ.

The translators chose to use the words believe , believer , and believing . Now if you go back and see the definition of what a verb is , these words only communicate that true "pisteuo" is part of a verb. It doesn't communicate what the specific act of faithing is to start , maintain , and complete a relationship with Christ here on earth.

As the result of this "mistranslation" most of the church world understands that the true path to receiving the Spirit of Christ is by believing in Gods Word which couldn't be farther from the truth. True pisteuo is a continual surrendering of our lives to Christ , "and" making all the little a big daily decisions supporting that surrender. It's not our life any more , but His .

What we have in todays church world is a pisteuo that doesn't require a continual surrendering of our lives to Him. So in accually one could have a relationship with Christ and still keep their own life serving themselves . This is the wide path and will never result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

As Rom 8:9 tells us , if we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us , and we in Him , Christ is none of ours . If Christ is none of ours , His Word can't be ours either. That means that anyone who has not been continually surrendering their lives to Christ can never recieve His Spirit , making Christ and His Word and the promises there-in none of theirs.

Yet todays church world knows the Scriptures inside and out and it not theirs yet because of the above facts.

Is Christianity lost to time ?

Good post. Your post makes me think of this verse.
Matt. 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

At my current level of understanding, I believe people find what they are looking for. If one is honestly searching scripture for truth, then they will come to the conclusion you have. When I listen to people who are looking for a church to attend, it amazes me that they never say they're looking for one that preaches the truth.
 

Faither

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Good post. Your post makes me think of this verse.
Matt. 7:14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

At my current level of understanding, I believe people find what they are looking for. If one is honestly searching scripture for truth, then they will come to the conclusion you have. When I listen to people who are looking for a church to attend, it amazes me that they never say they're looking for one that preaches the truth.

Thanks turbo ,

I had always had the desire to know Christ even in my youngest memories. But what i'm sharing with you on this thread is a small part of what happened in what i call accidentally at an extreme low point in my life . I never saw it coming . It would take over 20 years to put most of the pieces together along with the best bible teacher of our time .

If your interested i could share what happened in detail .
 

turbosixx

New member
Thanks turbo ,

I had always had the desire to know Christ even in my youngest memories. But what i'm sharing with you on this thread is a small part of what happened in what i call accidentally at an extreme low point in my life . I never saw it coming . It would take over 20 years to put most of the pieces together along with the best bible teacher of our time .

If your interested i could share what happened in detail .

Sorry if I misunderstood the meaning of your post.

If you want to share, I would be interested to hear.
 
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