genuineoriginal
New member
The definitions are not legit as proven by the actual words from Strong's and Vine's, so your assurances are meaningless.
Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Such brilliance. Teach us....Please?
You, to me:
I take that as a compliment, as you are not in my league, quite irrelevant on TOL:
Your "page:"This page has had had 166 visits
Vs.
The great saint John W's:
This page has had 16,773 visits
Contrasts.
Thanks again!
Get saved.
PS: You're a clown, making Howdy Doody look good.
So there.
Fun!
Well AMR found the " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ," was in the Vines just like I said it was .
What do you think the chances are my other findings in the Strongs are also there ?
100%
genuineoriginal
New member
The main difference I see is whether it is God saves us for His own pleasure or whether God is obligated to repay us for our efforts.
Works is doing all those things we are commanded to do and there is no reason for us to expect any praise for doing what we are obligated to do.
Luke 17:7-10 7 [JESUS]But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?[/JESUS] 8 [JESUS]And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?[/JESUS] 9 [JESUS]Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.[/JESUS] 10 [JESUS]So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.[/JESUS] |
Faith (faithfulness) goes beyond merely doing all those things we are commanded to do and it is up to our Lord to decide whether He is pleased with it enough to praise us and/or reward us for it.
Matthew 25:21 21 [JESUS]His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.[/JESUS] |
Yes, I believe that the Scriptures say something different about the nature of God, man, sin and evil, and what God does in response to willful disobedience, than Calvinism/Reformed claim the Scriptures say.
I have no doubts that there are Christians in almost every Christian denomination that have the faith that God is looking for, despite any differences in the teachings of those denominations.
glorydaz
Well-known member
genuineoriginal
New member
What are the chances that you are mistaking comments about the definitions for the definitions themselves?
100%
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yep, there are lots of comments intermingled therein.
So is AMR a liar also ? He validated the Vines for you .
glorydaz
Well-known member
I'm not calling anyone a liar. :doh:
Why you jump to such conclusions is beyond me. I'm simply saying that comments are all over amongst those definitions.
The fact a neutral third party has found what I've referenced makes you a dishonest reporter . You need to re-establish some credibility .
Just a suggestion , you could try fulfilling true NT pisteuo .
No one would disagree with anyone who would say we should "live a holy life before God"(sanctification),"a personal surrender," but not as a basis for our acceptance by Him-not as our basis for justification! We live a holy life, we "surrender," as a result of being justified, because we are sons, because we are justified, because we are saved, not to become sons, not to be justified, not to be saved.
No one has,or can, truly(and this is a subjective criteria)repent(ed) of all their sins", no one has, or can "surrender 100% to the Lordship of Jesus Christ"(and this is a subjective criteria), no one has "put away the things or our previous life and life style", no one has, or can, "live(d) for God 100%", for all have been pronounced "guilty"(Romans 3:19 KJV), and "...come short of the glory of God...."(Romans 3:23 KJV), in not only what we do, but what we do not do, and how we think. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Nor will the LORD God accept any offering these acts of service as a basis for justification, but will only accept the death by blood offering of the Lord Jesus Christ's spotless life, not ours, and his resurrection, as a basis for our justification as sons.
Phrases such as "giving one's life, heart("commitment") is not the proper object of faith.. Again, salvation has nothing to do with "giving" God anything! Salvation is not my gift to God. Rather, it is the issue of receiving a gift from God. The issue in salvation is not what we give to Him, but what He gives to us-eternal life. The issue is not giving your life to Christ-it is Christ giving up His life as an atoning sacrifice for you. Salvation has nothing to do with "giving up your life", "surrendering your life".........-It was the Lord Jesus Christ who gave up His life and made full surrender when he yielded His life at Calvary. Again, when a lost person is told to "surrender his life, give his life to Jesus, commit his life to Jesus.........", this wrongly presumes that a person has something worthy to give(whether that is time, money, service......), and confuses service, with salvation. It requires a "commitment" to serve Christ "up front" before salvation, and it presents a work-based performance system as a basis for acceptance by God.
Phrases such as "Give your heart to Jesus" may sound very romantic, but we are not saved by "falling in love with Jesus"-we are saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary and His resurrection 3 days later. Giving one's heart, life(commitment) is an activity of service to the Lord, and and, as such, service and dedication is something the LORD appeals to believers to do(Romans 12:1-2 KJV, for eg.). But this is service from those who have become his own. The biblical order is sonship, then service. Service, then sonship is a work-based performance system, as typified by the Roman Catholic Church, and "perverts the gospel of Christ"(Gal. 1:7 KJV). Statements such as " ...I believe salvation is a journey; it is not a moment in time" reflect this mindset and false doctrine. Sanctification is a journey, but justification is not. Justification is a "moment in time" declaration of righteousness based on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.
________________
Titus 2 KJV
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
genuineoriginal
New member
A neutral third party found out that there is an edition of Strong's that has the comments you have mistakenly thought were definitions.
That does not prove you are right, that proves you are wrong.
Find out what the difference is between an author's (or editor's) comments about a definition and the actual definition.
Take your time.
I am sure it will take you a while.
I was speaking of the Vines definition . " A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ."
The Strongs definitions are there also there . But I'm sure you already know that .
If I were giving the reference from a comentary , I would have said so .
The definitions I gave are from a Strongs Greek dictionary . "The most complete , accurate , up to date Hebrew and Greek dictionary ." " Cross references from the standard dictionaries such as Thayer's and Brown-Driver-Briggs ."
No commentaries !
Ask Mr. Religion
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Let's be precise when appealing to what I found:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5277291#post5277291
As I indicated, the verbatim phrase "a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender" does not appear in Vines. Rather it is part of a threefold enumerated list that you are simply combining while eliminating the (1) phrase and ignoring the caution that how phrases (1), (2), and (3) are to be amplified over one another...that is, by the context in which they are being used. Your phrasing is quite different from the way it appears in Vines.
The added issue for Strong's 4100, etc., is that you are relying upon an enhancement to Strong's proper:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?130626-Is-Calvinism-Wrong&p=5277326&viewfull=1#post5277326
Just ensure that in the future when you are appealing to "Strong's" that you qualify that appeal with a citation of the emended version you are actually using.
AMR
You made yourself clear when you called the Strongs " the wrongs " . You can explain away those definitions if you like , that's your choice .
If I remember correctly , your in the believe and recieve camp , kind of the common thread woven in here .
Would you mind putting your understanding of how Pisteuo is applied on the table to be tested , from the very beginning of the salvation process ? After we are called by the Father . You words , your understanding , your experience .
Rosenritter
New member
"Trust follows truth" means that you do not extend trust to someone that is not first truthful. It was not intended to be especially profound.
Re: "You are making Mennosota look good by comparison... and that's not a compliment."
Mennosota has previously earned a reputation for being a troll, aggressive, and somewhat obnoxious. I sent you a private comment because I assumed that would be kinder than calling you out openly. Whatever his shortcomings in this manner you have managed to catch up or surpass with just a few posts. If the spirit of Christ is in you, let it show by the fruits of the spirit. Don't descend (or spiral down past) another's level.
Wow... no further comment.
Rosenritter
New member
Faith is the practice of our belief, works are the fruits and outwards evidence of our faith. As the thawing of the winter brings forth green leaves, the green leaves are outwards fruits and evidence of the spring season.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Actually, if you go back and re-read it is wrong in Strong's when you attempt to turn a dictionary into a lexicon.
Ignoring the odd "on the table bit," why should I bother if you cannot read my plain posts aright and continue to put words into my mouth? I have enough folks attempting to do the same without adding another to the mix. :AMR1:
AMR
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ah, so being justified by faith refers to our "practice"? That's works salvation.