Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
No it is not a work. The verse itself says so. It is by grace you have been saved through faith NOT OF WORKS.
The idea of faith being a 'work' is ultimately a pointless notion either way. If a faith doesn't follow with works, or at least a desire to works when it is necessary, than it is a dead faith.
Why? Because faith is not merely a claim or thought, it's a driving spirit. That's exactly where James is coming from when he calls it 'dead'- it's like a vehicle with no engine, is that what suffices for salvation?
Why? Because faith is not merely a claim or thought, it's a driving spirit. That's exactly where James is coming from when he calls it 'dead'- it's like a vehicle with no engine, is that what suffices for salvation?
oatmeal
Well-known member
Believing is indeed a work and we receive what we believe, if we believe truth we receive accordingly and if we believe error we receive accordingly
Who did the work to pay the price for our sins?
Jesus Christ did, so they are paid for.
There is no work that we can do to add to it, but to believe to receive
beloved57
Well-known member
Another example of work salvation, contrary to the Truth
beloved57
Well-known member
What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then Hes influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing !
beloved57
Well-known member
Rom 4:4
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !
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Nanja
Well-known member
Well said. Before a person is born again, his own work of believing is filthy in God's eyes Is. 64:6; nothing he does pleases God Rom. 8:8.
There is no condition a man can meet to get himself saved.
For Salvation was specifically promised to those that were given Grace before the World began [Election of Grace].
2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
It's these exclusively that are given Faith to Believe on Christ Phil. 1:29; a fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22 in New Birth.
However all the rest:
Ps. 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
Nanja
Well-known member
If Salvation was based on our work of repentance or believing, then God would be indebted to save us.
But Salvation is by God's discriminating Grace Eph. 2:8-9.
Rom. 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
So now, if some outside of the Election of Grace say God's Grace is due them also upon their work of repentance or believing, then it destroys the biblical concept of Grace and makes it a debt owed Rom. 4:4.
beloved57
Well-known member
If and when someone teaches that salvation/justification is based upon a condition performed by man, like faith or repentance, water baptism, its synonymous to teaching that they are justified/saved by a law, a work of theirs, so by their merit, which is contrary to grace, Rom 4:4
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
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Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother !
If Salvation / Justification was based upon a person's own work of the law, or any good behavior God saw in him, then God would have an obligation to save him.
However, Salvation is a Gift of God's Grace exclusively to His Election of Grace !
Rom. 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely [undeservedly] by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The Bible teaches that works are necessary for salvation. Most Christians don't understand that. And I don't mean works of the Torah, but rather the works that Jesus said must be done, must be done. Sorry all you Faith Alone folks, you are all wrong.
way 2 go
Well-known member
no
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Aimiel
Well-known member
:nono:
If one is saved it is by grace, alone; through faith, and that not of themselves but it is the gift of God. No one can boast. Works are not a requirement. We work because it is good and God (being in us) makes us want to do good but not because we (of ourselves) are good or even have any goodness. If anyone does anything good it's God in them and not their own goodness but His. Jesus saw that there was nothing good in man. God is in us (if we believe) and He is good. Works aren't required to be saved.
Nanja
Well-known member
So far so good....
Not true. That last sentence is where you slipped up. There are several places in the NT where Jesus specifically says you must do things to be saved.
No boasting, and they are done through faith, and only works prompted by grace, but they must be done all the same
oatmeal
Well-known member
Believing takes work
Did God or Moses part the Red Sea?
God did, but it did take work for Moses to obey God's instructions. Moses had to raise his staff etc.
Exodus 14
13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
14 The Lord shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
15 And the Lord said unto Moses, Wherefore criest thou unto me? speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward:
16 But lift thou up thy rod, and stretch out thine hand over the sea, and divide it: and the children of Israel shall go on dry ground through the midst of the sea.
Unless Moses did as commanded, Moses would not have done the works to let God work.
Who did the heavy lifting? God? or Moses?
way 2 go
Well-known member
are we made more righteous by works?
sorry that's the wrong question
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
I come from the Mid Acts Dispensation view which is what the TOL forum was started for
I read and listened to "the Plot" by Bob Enyart which convinced me of the the above Rom 4:3-5
the right question is ,what changed with Saul to Paul ?
"the Plot" disc one
https://kgov.com/bel/20141204
Aimiel
Well-known member
Yes, it is true. Jesus said so.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.