Inversed Christianity

[The Berean]

I've been to many different churches and sects over the years. Mostly Protestant ones, which is where this philosophy is most rampant, but I've also been to Catholic and Orthodox churches. While certain indivuals maybe actively living the faith - as a whole, the churches have lost their way. They serve no purpose anymore. Churches today are little more than a Sunday social group with membership dues (tithe). They meet up for a few hours, pat each other on the back for believing the right set of doctrines, and they carry on with their worldly lives. This isn't what it means to be a Christian

There is some truth to that from my experiences as well. To me this is a distinction between the Chrisitan "religion" and the Chrisitan "faith". Superfically both look the same but when one delves deeper many striking differences are found.

Many people are part of the Christian "religion" living within the culture of Christianity. Lots of people go to church, attend church functions, even own a Bible. They tend to be very politcal and usually are politically and socially conservative. But these people tend not to read their Bible, never share the Gospel of Jesus Christ but will tell people their views on things like homosexuality and abortion, never pray or if they do pray it's only the typical "911, I'm in trouble, bail me out God" prayers. They never pray just to spend time with the LORD. I have had people tell me they are Christians but never read the Bible, never prayer, never share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My reaction is usually, "Really? Ok? :liberals: " It seems God is not much of a real priority in their lives.

People in the Christian "faith" seem to actively seek the LORD through prayer, pray for others, have a more servant's heart, worship, and study the Bible. They tend to be non-politcal. They want to have a deep and fulfilling personal relation with the LORD. That is usually their first priority.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You aren't the least bit interested in what I or anyone else thinks about God, sin, forgiveness, or whatever.

You don't even know God, since you claim the Bible did not come from Him.

All you care about is the fact that PureX projected PureX's delusions of Biblical authority and self-righteousness onto genuineoriginal.

FTFY, and you are welcome.

 

[Totton Linnet]

All sins have been "cancelled out". We are forgiven. The question is, do we know it? Do we accept this gift? Will we share this "gift" of forgiveness with others? And then live on in love, and kindness, and generosity with each other?

You're trying to impose impediments on us all that don't exist, because you pay too much attention to religion. (And not enough to the spirit.) Free yourself from the chains of religiosity (sin and guilt and blame), and live in the spirit of Christ (forgiveness and love).

Forget "obedience". It just leads back into the abyss of religion.

It takes two to deal, we don't have zippo until we close the deal.

 

[PureX]

You don't even know God, since you claim the Bible did not come from Him.

You're just proving my point with statements like this. To you, the Bible is the container of God. Without it, God wouldn't exist to us.

You have elevated a man-made book to the level of God, Himself. Even above, as you think that without the book, no one can know God.

 

[PureX]

It takes two to deal, we don't have zippo until we close the deal.

You're assuming that the prize is 'pie in the sky'. I'm looking at the prize that's is here and now.

In the here and now, the revelation and the gifts of Christ is free to anyone who is willing to accept them. Love and forgiveness heals us, here and now. Loving and helping others changes us, profoundly, here and now. It's not 'pie in the sky'. It's salvation from ourselves, from our fear and selfishness right here and now. With that, we no longer need to seek, nor fear, the "hereafter".

 

[PureX]

When two entities love each other … I mean really love each other rather than just sharing mutual expectations of each other, neither of them demands from the other, and neither of them obeys the other. Because their relationship is not based on expectations of the other, but is based, instead, on mutual respect for, and concern for the genuine well-being of the other.

If I expect perfection from you, I am not respecting and appreciating who you are, because you are not going to be perfect. So that if I am then disappointed by your imperfections, that's my own fault. I created my own disappointment by expecting you to be what you cannot be. But if my interest in you is centered on you, instead of on myself, then I will not be at all disappointed to discover that you are imperfect. Because I will not have expected you to be anything but yourself, to begin with.

When Christians claim that God loves and forgives them, and then claim that God demands perfection from us, and would punish us when we fail to live up to that demand, they are lying. Because love doesn't expect or demand anything from the beloved but that they be who they are. Nor does love expect the beloved to "obey" any demands. God's love is free and unconditional. So is God's forgiveness. No 'obedience' of any sort is demanded, nor required, of us. None.

It is, however, up to us whether or not we accept that love and forgiveness, and then pass it on to others. Or we reject it and wallow in guilt and resentment and selfishness, instead. And it is in this choice that we find or lose salvation IN THIS WORLD. Which is where we need it most urgently.

 

[ok doser]

You're just proving my point with statements like this. To you, the Bible is the container of God. Without it, God wouldn't exist to us.

You have elevated a man-made book to the level of God, Himself. Even above, as you think that without the book, no one can know God.

you're a retard

i used to drive an old ford van

i relied on Chilton's ford van repair manual to diagnose and repair it:
View attachment 24163

Chilton's was my means of understanding how the van should work and pointed me in the right direction when I was trying to diagnose why it wasn't working - it was the book I used to understand the ford van and what it expected of me, what i had to do to make it happy and have a successful relationship with it

Never did I elevate the repair manual to the level of the van, although i certainly realized that without the repair manual, I wouldn't have had a clue how to keep it running

 

[Totton Linnet]

You're just proving my point with statements like this. To you, the Bible is the container of God. Without it, God wouldn't exist to us.

You have elevated a man-made book to the level of God, Himself. Even above, as you think that without the book, no one can know God.

This is not the correct view of the bible, it is God's word written down. If you treated Jesu's word or the apostles and prophets as they spoke them with the contempt which you have for their words written down....how would you receive anything from the Lord?

Conversely treat the written word with the same awe and respect that you would have if Jesus spoke them personally to you, nothing would be impossible to you

 

[Totton Linnet]

When two entities love each other … I mean really love each other rather than just sharing mutual expectations of each other, neither of them demands from the other, and neither of them obeys the other. Because their relationship is not based on expectations of the other, but is based, instead, on mutual respect for, and concern for the genuine well-being of the other.

If I expect perfection from you, I am not respecting and appreciating who you are, because you are not going to be perfect. So that if I am then disappointed by your imperfections, that's my own fault. I created my own disappointment by expecting you to be what you cannot be. But if my interest in you is centered on you, instead of on myself, then I will not be at all disappointed to discover that you are imperfect. Because I will not have expected you to be anything but yourself, to begin with.

When Christians claim that God loves and forgives them, and then claim that God demands perfection from us, and would punish us when we fail to live up to that demand, they are lying. Because love doesn't expect or demand anything from the beloved but that they be who they are. Nor does love expect the beloved to "obey" any demands. God's love is free and unconditional. So is God's forgiveness. No 'obedience' of any sort is demanded, nor required, of us. None.

It is, however, up to us whether or not we accept that love and forgiveness, and then pass it on to others. Or we reject it and wallow in guilt and resentment and selfishness, instead. And it is in this choice that we find or lose salvation IN THIS WORLD. Which is where we need it most urgently.

This is ok

It is where I am...but I got it all from scripture which you seem to have a low estimation of.

 

[PureX]

This is not the correct view of the bible, it is God's word written down. If you treated Jesu's word or the apostles and prophets as they spoke them with the contempt which you have for their words written down....how would you receive anything from the Lord?

Conversely treat the written word with the same awe and respect that you would have if Jesus spoke them personally to you, nothing would be impossible to you

This is nothing short of scriptural idolatry. And like all forms of idolatry, it leads those who engage in it into ignorance and self-delusion. And it makes them ripe for the pickings by false priests and profits and cult-like churches.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You cannot separate God from His word....the bible is His word written down

If you have doctrines which contradict God's word you are in trouble
If you have experiences which do not match bible experiences you are in trouble


...nobody during all the church age has ever done anything of lasting worth who were not true bible believing christians

 

[genuineoriginal]

When two entities love each other … I mean really love each other rather than just sharing mutual expectations of each other, neither of them demands from the other, and neither of them obeys the other. Because their relationship is not based on expectations of the other, but is based, instead, on mutual respect for, and concern for the genuine well-being of the other.

If you think your relationship with God is based on a mutual respect without any need for obedience, you are quite mistaken.
If you actually respected God as God, then you would know that He is much wiser than you and would obey His commandments out of respect for His wisdom and His love for you.
Since you don't respect God as wiser than you and more loving than you, you will continue to belittle Him as part of your rebellion against Him.

If I expect perfection from you, I am not respecting and appreciating who you are, because you are not going to be perfect. So that if I am then disappointed by your imperfections, that's my own fault. I created my own disappointment by expecting you to be what you cannot be. But if my interest in you is centered on you, instead of on myself, then I will not be at all disappointed to discover that you are imperfect. Because I will not have expected you to be anything but yourself, to begin with.

When Christians claim that God loves and forgives them, and then claim that God demands perfection from us, and would punish us when we fail to live up to that demand, they are lying.

You have been taken in by the lie that God demands perfection.
He does not.
He does demand that you humble yourself and stop thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself as an equal to God.

Because love doesn't expect or demand anything from the beloved but that they be who they are. Nor does love expect the beloved to "obey" any demands. God's love is free and unconditional. So is God's forgiveness. No 'obedience' of any sort is demanded, nor required, of us. None.

You are trying to demand that God must forgive you no matter how much you spit in His face, but you rebel against any hint that you should do as He demands?
In other words, you expect God to bow down to you instead of you bowing down to God.

It is, however, up to us whether or not we accept that love and forgiveness, and then pass it on to others. Or we reject it and wallow in guilt and resentment and selfishness, instead. And it is in this choice that we find or lose salvation IN THIS WORLD. Which is where we need it most urgently.

If you do not humble yourself before God, you will not receive the forgiveness you demand that He give to you.

 

[PureX]

If you think your relationship with God is based on a mutual respect without any need for obedience, you are quite mistaken.

My relationship with "God" is based on whatever I choose to base it on. And you don't really have anything to say bout it. So your opinion is of little value to me, in this regard.

If you actually respected God as God, then you would know that He is much wiser than you and would obey His commandments out of respect for His wisdom and His love for you.

You are just blindly assuming that the only possible way for me or anyone else to conceive of God is through your literalist interpretation of the Bible. But we humans can conceive of God any way that works for us. And billions of us choose not to use the literal biblical conception that you use. So you look kind of silly and selfish sitting there blindly proclaiming your own conception of God to be the only possible conception of God. It just exemplifies how you have trapped yourself in your own delusions of self-righteousness, and thus cut yourself off from the rest of humanity.

Since you don't respect God as wiser than you and more loving than you, you will continue to belittle Him as part of your rebellion against Him.

No, I only pointed out that divine love is unconditional, and is therefor not based on expectations or demands for obedience. But you can't grasp that observation because your whole theology is based on Biblical authority and blind obedience masquerading as "faith".

You have been taken in by the lie that God demands perfection.
He does not.[/QUITE]I know God does not. In fact, God demands nothing. God loves and forgives us all, freely.

You are trying to demand that God must forgive you no matter how much you spit in His face…

God has already forgiven me no matter what I do. It's then up to me to choose how I respond to that gift.

In other words, you expect God to bow down to you instead of you bowing down to God.

No one needs to bow down to anyone. You can't see this because your religion is based on authoritarianism, not on love and forgiveness.

If you do not humble yourself before God, you will not receive the forgiveness you demand that He give to you.

We have all already been forgiven. No demands are needed, from us or from God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

My relationship with "God" is based on whatever I choose to base it in.

Yes, you are not letting God have any say in it.

 

[PureX]

Yes, you are not letting God have any say in it.

God's "say" in how I relate to Him is in my heart, not your idolized religious book.

 

[genuineoriginal]

God's "say" in how I relate to Him is in my heart, not your idolized religious book.

Jeremiah 13:10 10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.​