ECT If your not OSAS then your not saved ,true or false?

glorydaz

Well-known member
The flesh profiteth nothing.

Works-driven religion = flesh.

Yep, and it boggles my mind how so many people just flat make up their own version. But they all have one thing in common. They insert man in the place of Saviour. God tells us He is the only Saviour, He doesn't need man's help. But man is always wanting to claim some of the glory for himself.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.​
 

musterion

Well-known member
Yep, and it boggles my mind how so many people just flat make up their own version. But they all have one thing in common. They insert man in the place of Saviour. God tells us He is the only Saviour, He doesn't need man's help. But man is always wanting to claim some of the glory for himself.
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no savior.​

Yep. Works salvation in general, as well as denying UESIC, also denies Isaiah 42:8, 48:11.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
There is nothing good in me besides Him.

Thats right, and when you strayed, He came after you, not the other way around.

Luke 15:5 4 "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 "When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'…

He saved you and He keeps you, you do nothing.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The flesh profiteth nothing.

Works-driven religion = flesh.

To deny UESIC, one may be saved and deceived but it's almost always a sign of someone who simply does not fully trust Christ to save him and keep him safe. In that case, flesh is all that's left to trust in.

My argument is that when a person first believes, and the Lord sees into his heart, there HAS to be a genuine and complete trust in Him. If there isn't, God will not begin His work in him. It's that simple faith of a child. Unlike someone like God's untruth who claims her obedience is why she was saved. No child gives himself credit like that.

It is only after that person (saved) begins to get too smart for his own britches.....trusting in his own flesh, as you say, that he sees he is powerless and starts seeing fear and loss of salvation, if not in himself, in others. He adjusts his doctrine to meet the facts he thinks he's seeing. He listens to other doubters and he can become useless (or worse) in the spiritual battle that is being waged for the souls of men. He allows his personal doubt to infect the message he shares with others. That is when we can grieve the Holy Spirit. That person, can indeed be a true believer, but he is building a lot of hay and stubble, and the enemy is sitting back not having to do a thing.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Thats right, and when you strayed, He came after you, not the other way around.

Luke 15:5 4 "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 "When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'…

He saved you and He keeps you, you do nothing.

Yes, He is faithful even when we are not. How can anyone not trust God to keep us? I don't get it? :sigh:
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Yes, He is faithful even when we are not. How can anyone not trust God to keep us? I don't get it? :sigh:

Its easier to believe the bad things about us and get trapped in our own guilt, the devil loves to put believers into bondage and to try to make God look like failure, when he can convince us not to trust Gods word.

The less love and forgiveness people have received from others, also makes it harder to believe that God can totally forgive, i think thats what messes up a lot of people.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Whoa up there. It's you that needs to check the context. ;)

Romans 4:10
How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Since Abraham was not under the law, for the law did not come until Moses, Abraham could not do any works that were the law.

However, Abraham believed God and as a result Abraham did the works.

God told Abraham to move out of his homeland. Abraham believed God and did the works that it took to move to the promised land.

Believing without works is dead. See James 2 again.

Abraham believed God to have God account to him righteousness.

The proof that he believed is that he did the appropriate works. As the context shows, the works that Abraham did were not the works of the law. How did Sarah get pregnant? Did Abraham participate at all in getting her pregnant or did they both ignore God's promise.

Show me someone from scripture who believed God without doing some kind of action. Believing is a verb and verbs connote action. The woman with the issue of blood found Jesus Christ and worked her way through the crowd to touch the hem of his garment. Did Jesus say her works made her whole? No, he said daughter, be of good comfort, your believing made you whole. Would she have been healed if she sat moping in her home waiting for God to do it all?
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Since Abraham was not under the law, for the law did not come until Moses, Abraham could not do any works that were the law.

However, Abraham believed God and as a result Abraham did the works.

God told Abraham to move out of his homeland. Abraham believed God and did the works that it took to move to the promised land.

Believing without works is dead. See James 2 again.

Abraham believed God to have God account to him righteousness.

The proof that he believed is that he did the appropriate works. As the context shows, the works that Abraham did were not the works of the law. How did Sarah get pregnant? Did Abraham participate at all in getting her pregnant or did they both ignore God's promise.

Show me someone from scripture who believed God without doing some kind of action. Believing is a verb and verbs connote action. The woman with the issue of blood found Jesus Christ and worked her way through the crowd to touch the hem of his garment. Did Jesus say her works made her whole? No, he said daughter, be of good comfort, your believing made you whole. Would she have been healed if she sat moping in her home waiting for God to do it all?

James was written to the scattered sheep of the house of Israel.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
What's the acronym ? UESIC

I agree with that much, too, as far as it goes. But the fact remains that 99% of people who HATE the very idea of Unconditional Eternal Security In Christ, if you ask them (and if they're honest) will tell you being justified by God demands works -- either to get it or to keep it. That's a false gospel, meaning they're not saved at all. As I said earlier, I've yet to meet an exception to this, either in real life or here on this board, but I allow for the misled-but-saved people you described.

If one has heard Paul's gospel of grace presented correctly, with Christ dying for all sin (Col 1:13; 2:13; 3:13), the logical necessity is "no condemnation" because he/she died in Christ to Law...hence UESIC.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Its easier to believe the bad things about us and get trapped in our own guilt, the devil loves to put believers into bondage and to try to make God look like failure, when he can convince us not to trust Gods word
The less love and forgiveness people have received from others, also makes it harder to believe that God can totally forgive, i think thats what messes up a lot of people.

Yep, it's like sending our children off to school and having their minds warped by the wordly things taught there. Believers are not immune to the many false teachings out there, but that doesn't mean they had those doubts and fears when they first believed. If people would only look back and REMEMBER, and were honest, they'd realize FEAR and DOUBT were not a part of the Gospel that saves, and those doubts were not present when they first believed.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Since Abraham was not under the law, for the law did not come until Moses, Abraham could not do any works that were the law.

However, Abraham believed God and as a result Abraham did the works.

God told Abraham to move out of his homeland. Abraham believed God and did the works that it took to move to the promised land.

Believing without works is dead. See James 2 again.

Abraham believed God to have God account to him righteousness.

The proof that he believed is that he did the appropriate works. As the context shows, the works that Abraham did were not the works of the law. How did Sarah get pregnant? Did Abraham participate at all in getting her pregnant or did they both ignore God's promise.

Show me someone from scripture who believed God without doing some kind of action. Believing is a verb and verbs connote action. The woman with the issue of blood found Jesus Christ and worked her way through the crowd to touch the hem of his garment. Did Jesus say her works made her whole? No, he said daughter, be of good comfort, your believing made you whole. Would she have been healed if she sat moping in her home waiting for God to do it all?

I'm disappointed in you, Oats. You've come a long way, but you still don't understand the righteousness of faith. I could believe one minute and be beheaded the next. Would the fact that my head fell to the ground fit the bill? ;)
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
I'm disappointed in you, Oats. You've come a long way, but you still don't understand the righteousness of faith. I could believe one minute and be beheaded the next. Would the fact that my head fell to the ground fit the bill? ;)

So, are you disappointed or thankful?

Disappointed with scriptures? If you do not do what scriptures say, if you do not believe what scriptures say, are you believing? Will someone who does not take the time to learn scripture, do scripture, do righteousness?

As to beheading, maybe you could explain the relevancy to this subject.

I see you, like others here, cannot explain what you hold to be true.

Did the woman with the issue of blood do works to get to Jesus to touch the hem of his garment? Why did she do that? Because she believed in Jesus' ability as a man of God to heal.

If she said she believed but sat at home, waiting for God to do everything, would she have been healed?

If Peter had not done the work to get out of the boat, would he have walked on water?

If Noah said, God I believe you, but did not build the ark, where would he, or us be today?

Believing God is works.

If you did not do the works it takes to learn scripture, whether by reading or listening,that is, the truths about Jesus Christ being lord and that God raised him from the dead (Romans 10:9-10) and mentally assimilated that to the end you acted, believed on those truths, would you be saved?

No, you would not. Receiving salvation, as Romans 10:9-10 clearly shows, requires your participation in order for you to receive. It takes works to believe to receive. You had to do make the decision to do the work to confess with your mouth the lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

That work does earn your salvation, it is simply what it takes to receive the gift of salvation.

Some one could extend a gift to you, the keys to a car a gift to you, but unless you extend your hand, even just one, to receive the gift and the title, you do not have it, let alone put it to good use.

As Paul was clearly teaching in the book of Romans, to whoever wants to know, no man is justified by the deeds, the works of the law

Believers under the law believed God and did the works of the law.

Religious people went through the motions of doing the law, but without believing.

Believing takes work, believing does not earn salvation, it enables us to receive salvation.

Romans 10:9-10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I'm disappointed in you, Oats. You've come a long way, but you still don't understand the righteousness of faith. I could believe one minute and be beheaded the next. Would the fact that my head fell to the ground fit the bill? ;)

Disappointed with scriptures?

:mock: Oats thinks he's scriptures.

I'm disappointed in you, Oats.



I see you, like others here, cannot explain what you hold to be true.

I see you can't understand what I hold to be true. No surprise there. The rest of your post isn't worth responding to. Believing is acknowledging (confessing) and is not a work. I'm not sure why that is so difficult for you to understand. Back to the drawing board for you...
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Either way, but I think "safety" gets the point across a little better to those who don't see it. Or don't want to see it.

I like it. What if it could be an acronym that forms a word, a words of sorts that' easier to remember ? UESIC - I guess that is pronouncable ! I can remember that.
 
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