Daniel1611
New member
Verse 31
31*Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
If pot should be banned.. so should alcohol.
- Thread starter WichitaJohn
- Start date
Verse 31
31*Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Galatians 5:
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law [immediately a warning is given:] .
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
There's that word "drunkenness" yet again! You do know what is meant by witchcraft don't you Dan?
"The Greek word “pharmakia” literally means “drugs”, and appears five times in the New Testament: in Gal 5:20, Rev 9:21, 18:23, 21:8, and 22:15.
“Pharmakia” is translated into our English Bible as either “witchcraft” or “sorceries”. We also get our English word “pharmacy” from the Greek word “pharmakia”.
In each of the above five passages, “pharmakia”, or “drugs” is listed as a work of the flesh of man as opposed to the Spirit of God working in us.
For example, Gal 5:16-23 in the KJV:
16 “[This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft (“pharmakia” or drug use), hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
http://truedsicernment.com/2007/07/09/on-the-greek-word-pharmakia/
I would imagine that would mean that drug pushers won't inherit the Kingdom of Heaven either (wink).
shagster01
New member
I'm glad to see that aCW has gone from telling me Jesus only made grape juice at the wedding to biblically defending alcohol over the last 2 years. You've come a long way buddy.
keypurr
Well-known member
I understand this more than most.
I have been on pain pills for over 40 years. It has caused me problems with my sleep. It is the root of my sleep apena as my brain fails to tell me to breath when I am sleeping. I reduced my Oxy from 125 mg a day to 10mg. It has somewhat reversed my problem.
I did consider pot as an alternative, but decided against it. I now rely on my implanted spinal stimulator to get me through the day.
WichitaJohn
New member
CW, Can I say the same thing about pot? God condemns abuse of pot (getting high), not the responsible consumption of it.
Here is a quote from Bob Enyart's website with my insights in red.
"Billions of people cannot get drunk on a sip of wine. (Why does he use the word "sip", and wine? Why doesn't he use "shot" and vodka? Hundreds of millions cannot get drunk even on a glass of wine or a can of beer. Instead of a glass of wine or can of beer maybe he could have said a glass of tequilla or a pitcher of beer. Conversely, there are countless millions of people who would (and do) get high even with a single drag on a joint (normal use) inhaled and held in the lungs. Simply not true. Some pot has rather low THC levels and thus one hit would net no results. That single hit affects the moral compass, and as with drunkenness, increases lust. And the potent pot sold today at dispensaries worsens this consequence."There are spirits with very high alcoholic content that is sold as well.
I think we need to make the distinction between feeling the effects of a substance and being drunk or high. I could take a drag off a pot pipe and feel no effects while a petite lady could take one shot of Vodka and feel the effects. In fact, I am 6' and 200lbs and I have felt the effects after one shot of a particular 90 proof cinnamon flavored whiskey.
The point is that THC levels can be controlled in the same way as alcohol. Just because more potent pot is available today does not mean that less potent pot is no longer available.
CW, can you be specific on the distinction you make between pot and alcohol? Maybe we can examine their validity one at a time. I think they should both be legal.
MarcATL
New member
Thanks for sharing your testimony. Glad to know you are over that addiction.
And here I only gave you credit for having one live brain cell shag. With a memory like that you definitely have two.
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
God condemns abuse of alcohol (drunkenness), not the responsible consumption of it.
Where is that written in the Bible?
Because like shag, you're a drug addict. Your body is so full of THC that you no longer get high with one drag.
So when you go into your local dope store you adamantly tell them that you don't want dope with a high THC level because you're working on your degree from a nearby seminary and it goes against your faith to get high?
I linked 3 articles by Bob Enyart on page one. I'll gladly go over each article paragraph by paragraph and see if your defense of this harmful drug can stand up against the truth.
Here's Bob's article from the HuffPo entitled:
Why Marijuana Should Be Illegal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-enyart/why-marijuana-should-be-i_b_1340311.html
The first paragraph that I'd like you to respond to is this:
"It's wrong to get high. For in doing so you reject the counsel of the God who made you. And by intoxication you lose what should be a full control of your mental and moral faculties. You become a threat to yourself and a risk to those around you."
Would you agree or disagree that when high on dope (and alcohol) people in general lose control of their mental and moral faculties and are a threat to themselves and those around them?
God condemns abuse of alcohol (drunkenness), not the responsible consumption of it.
Where is that written in the Bible?
Because like shag, you're a drug addict. Your body is so full of THC that you no longer get high with one drag.
So when you go into your local dope store you adamantly tell them that you don't want dope with a high THC level because you're working on your degree from a nearby seminary and it goes against your faith to get high?
I linked 3 articles by Bob Enyart on page one. I'll gladly go over each article paragraph by paragraph and see if your defense of this harmful drug can stand up against the truth.
Here's Bob's article from the HuffPo entitled:
Why Marijuana Should Be Illegal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-enyart/why-marijuana-should-be-i_b_1340311.html
The first paragraph that I'd like you to respond to is this:
"It's wrong to get high. For in doing so you reject the counsel of the God who made you. And by intoxication you lose what should be a full control of your mental and moral faculties. You become a threat to yourself and a risk to those around you."
Would you agree or disagree that when high on dope (and alcohol) people in general lose control of their mental and moral faculties and are a threat to themselves and those around them?
I was quite surprised when I got up this morning and didn't see any replies from at least one of many TOL stoners....
Then I realized that it wasn't noon yet.
Speaking of stoner jokes:
Q: What do you call one bowl between three tokers ?
A: Malnutrition.
Q: How do you hide pot from a hippie?
A: Put it in his work boots.
Then I realized that it wasn't noon yet.
Speaking of stoner jokes:
Q: What do you call one bowl between three tokers ?
A: Malnutrition.
Q: How do you hide pot from a hippie?
A: Put it in his work boots.
Some of us have to work, unlike your good self.
Last edited:
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
I was lost at the point of using pot and not getting high...
If your doing that you using it wrong ...
sorry in my bad days that's why I used pot, is it possible to use pot and not get high ?
If your doing that you using it wrong ...
sorry in my bad days that's why I used pot, is it possible to use pot and not get high ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I was quite surprised when I got up this morning and didn't see any replies from at least one of many TOL stoners....
Then I realized that it wasn't noon yet.
Other than High Times magazine and Libertarian Party Headquarters, I'm not aware of any employers that don't give drug tests as part of their hiring process. Perhaps you could list a few? (if there are any).
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I was quite surprised when I got up this morning and didn't see any replies from at least one of many TOL stoners....
Then I realized that it wasn't noon yet.
Other than High Times magazine and Libertarian Party Headquarters, I'm not aware of any employers that don't give drug tests as part of their hiring process. Perhaps you could list a few? (if there are any).
When that pot high just isn't high enough, next comes...
The Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University found that 60 percent of adolescents who use marijuana before they turn 15 later go on to use cocaine. In fact, 62 percent of adults who have used marijuana before the age of 15 have used cocaine, whereas only 0.6 percent of adult cocaine users have never used marijuana.
https://www.steppingstonecenter.org/marijuana-abuse-stepping-stone-to-addiction/
Singer Amy Winehouse (1983-2011), who died unexpectedly in her London home Saturday found many of her career success overshadowed by her drug and alcohol addiction.
While Winehouse publicly acknowledged her drug and alcohol abuse, some addiction experts said, like many addicts, Winehouse may not have grasped the severity of her addiction.
"I think she minimized the extext to which her life was impacted by drugs and alcohol," said Dr. David Sack, CEO of Promises Treatment Center in Los Angeles. "She was denying the extent to which it affected her."
In one of her hit songs, "Rehab," Winehouse sings that she will not go to rehab, even though her father encouraged her to go...
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/w_Mind...e-career-shadowed-addiction/story?id=14145112
It's not just my pride, it's just 'til these tears have dried," Winehouse sings.
Winehouse admitted in several interviews around the time of the album's release that she suffered from manic depression -- a disorder characterized by extreme -- and in some cases violent -- mood swings.
One of TOL's stoners brought up Prohibition in at least one post, stating that it didn't work.
Let's see for ourselves if it did.
Prohibition and the legalization of drugs
November 22, 2005
Last week, North Carolina former state Supreme Court chief justice, Burley Mitchell, said the war on drugs in the Tar Heel State and the nation has been a "total failure." According to an MSNBC report, Mitchell spoke at a luncheon organized by North Carolina Policy Watch and Families Against Mandatory Minimums. Mitchell said: "What if we decriminalized drugs? Then you'd knock out all the profits of every dealer and, more to the point, the big producers." He further argued that the way to reduce law enforcement costs and the prison population, and to open up funds for drug treatment was to legalize drugs.
Mitchell is not alone in his beliefs that America should legalize drugs. Robert L. Maginnis — in Legalization of Drugs: The Myths and the Facts — notes that heavyweights like Reagan administration Secretary of State George Shultz, Nobel laureate in economics Milton Friedman, and former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders also believe this way. Maginnis writes, "U.S. Federal District Judge Robert Sweet says the nation should learn the lesson of Prohibition and the crime that ensued when alcohol was illegal."
I've always thought it somewhat ironic that proponents of drug legalization often use the repeal of Prohibition (1920-1933) against alcohol sales to bolster their argument. For those who really know the facts, however, fewer examples better refute their position.
Contrary to popular opinion, Prohibition was quite successful. It didn't eradicate drinking, but it did significantly reduce consumption rates and thereby improve the public health. In his book The Devaluing of America, William Bennett, former director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy under President George H.W. Bush, said: "One of the clear lessons of Prohibition is that when we had laws against alcohol there was less consumption, less alcohol-related disease, fewer drunken brawls, and a lot less drunkenness. Contrary to myth, there is no evidence that Prohibition caused any big increases in crime. The real facts are these: As a result of Prohibition, 180,000 saloons were shut down, and 1,800 breweries went out of business. In ten years of Prohibition, the death rate due to alcohol decreased 42 percent, the death rate due to cirrhosis of the liver decreased by 70 percent, crime decreased by 54 percent, and insanity decreased by 66 percent."
Norman H. Clark in Deliver Us From Evil argues that alcohol's trail of trouble was nearly absent during Prohibition. Clark contends: "There are today few reasons to believe that these legends, even those so recently embellished, are more than an easy and sentimental hyperbole, crafted by men whose assumptions about a democratic society had been deeply offended .... To suppose, further, that the Volstead Act (Prohibition) caused Americans to drink more rather than less is to defy an impressive body of statistics as well as common sense. The common sense is that a substantial number of people wanted to stop both their own and other people's drinking, and that the saloons where most people had done their drinking were closed. There is no reason to suppose that the speakeasy, given its illicit connotations, more lurid even than those of the saloon, ever, in any quantifiable way replaced the saloon. In fact, there is every reason to suppose that most Americans outside the larger cities never knew a bootlegger, never saw a speakeasy, and would not have known where to look for one."
Ross J. McLennan writes in Booze, Bucks, Bamboozle and You that one of the most convincing proofs of Prohibition's success is the government reports that compare the use of alcohol before and after Prohibition. According to McLennan, in 1914 the per-capita use of alcoholic beverages was 22.80 gallons. In 1934, the first year after repeal, the amount was 8.96 gallons. In other words, the nation had been weaned away from drinking during the nearly 14 years alcohol sales were illegal. And it took years of promotion by the alcohol industry to get consumption levels back up to their pre-Prohibition levels.
To advocate the legalization of drugs on the basis Prohibition was a failure is to perpetuate a myth that could intensify America's problem with dangerous substances. The legalization of alcohol sales didn't improve the nation's alcohol-related problems; instead it terribly exacerbated them. Alcohol-related crime didn't go down after the repeal of Prohibition; it exceeded far more than the nation could have ever imagined. The public health was so deeply affected that today the Marin Institute says 25 to 40 percent of all patients in America's general hospital beds (not in maternity or intensive care) are being treated for complications of alcohol-related problems. This is to say nothing of the astronomical social costs of $184.6 billion annually for alcohol abuse that the nation endures. Moreover, MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) reports an alcohol-related traffic accident kills one person every half hour in this country. One can hardly imagine compounding these problems with the legalization of drugs and the exceedingly negative environment it would create!...
Read more: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/creech/051122
Let's see for ourselves if it did.
Prohibition and the legalization of drugs
November 22, 2005
Last week, North Carolina former state Supreme Court chief justice, Burley Mitchell, said the war on drugs in the Tar Heel State and the nation has been a "total failure." According to an MSNBC report, Mitchell spoke at a luncheon organized by North Carolina Policy Watch and Families Against Mandatory Minimums. Mitchell said: "What if we decriminalized drugs? Then you'd knock out all the profits of every dealer and, more to the point, the big producers." He further argued that the way to reduce law enforcement costs and the prison population, and to open up funds for drug treatment was to legalize drugs.
Mitchell is not alone in his beliefs that America should legalize drugs. Robert L. Maginnis — in Legalization of Drugs: The Myths and the Facts — notes that heavyweights like Reagan administration Secretary of State George Shultz, Nobel laureate in economics Milton Friedman, and former Surgeon General Joycelyn Elders also believe this way. Maginnis writes, "U.S. Federal District Judge Robert Sweet says the nation should learn the lesson of Prohibition and the crime that ensued when alcohol was illegal."
I've always thought it somewhat ironic that proponents of drug legalization often use the repeal of Prohibition (1920-1933) against alcohol sales to bolster their argument. For those who really know the facts, however, fewer examples better refute their position.
Contrary to popular opinion, Prohibition was quite successful. It didn't eradicate drinking, but it did significantly reduce consumption rates and thereby improve the public health. In his book The Devaluing of America, William Bennett, former director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy under President George H.W. Bush, said: "One of the clear lessons of Prohibition is that when we had laws against alcohol there was less consumption, less alcohol-related disease, fewer drunken brawls, and a lot less drunkenness. Contrary to myth, there is no evidence that Prohibition caused any big increases in crime. The real facts are these: As a result of Prohibition, 180,000 saloons were shut down, and 1,800 breweries went out of business. In ten years of Prohibition, the death rate due to alcohol decreased 42 percent, the death rate due to cirrhosis of the liver decreased by 70 percent, crime decreased by 54 percent, and insanity decreased by 66 percent."
Norman H. Clark in Deliver Us From Evil argues that alcohol's trail of trouble was nearly absent during Prohibition. Clark contends: "There are today few reasons to believe that these legends, even those so recently embellished, are more than an easy and sentimental hyperbole, crafted by men whose assumptions about a democratic society had been deeply offended .... To suppose, further, that the Volstead Act (Prohibition) caused Americans to drink more rather than less is to defy an impressive body of statistics as well as common sense. The common sense is that a substantial number of people wanted to stop both their own and other people's drinking, and that the saloons where most people had done their drinking were closed. There is no reason to suppose that the speakeasy, given its illicit connotations, more lurid even than those of the saloon, ever, in any quantifiable way replaced the saloon. In fact, there is every reason to suppose that most Americans outside the larger cities never knew a bootlegger, never saw a speakeasy, and would not have known where to look for one."
Ross J. McLennan writes in Booze, Bucks, Bamboozle and You that one of the most convincing proofs of Prohibition's success is the government reports that compare the use of alcohol before and after Prohibition. According to McLennan, in 1914 the per-capita use of alcoholic beverages was 22.80 gallons. In 1934, the first year after repeal, the amount was 8.96 gallons. In other words, the nation had been weaned away from drinking during the nearly 14 years alcohol sales were illegal. And it took years of promotion by the alcohol industry to get consumption levels back up to their pre-Prohibition levels.
To advocate the legalization of drugs on the basis Prohibition was a failure is to perpetuate a myth that could intensify America's problem with dangerous substances. The legalization of alcohol sales didn't improve the nation's alcohol-related problems; instead it terribly exacerbated them. Alcohol-related crime didn't go down after the repeal of Prohibition; it exceeded far more than the nation could have ever imagined. The public health was so deeply affected that today the Marin Institute says 25 to 40 percent of all patients in America's general hospital beds (not in maternity or intensive care) are being treated for complications of alcohol-related problems. This is to say nothing of the astronomical social costs of $184.6 billion annually for alcohol abuse that the nation endures. Moreover, MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving) reports an alcohol-related traffic accident kills one person every half hour in this country. One can hardly imagine compounding these problems with the legalization of drugs and the exceedingly negative environment it would create!...
Read more: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/creech/051122
One of TOL's stoners also questioned the consumption of hard liquor.
It appears that the moderate consumption of any type of alcohol has health benefits.
5 Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol
"One of the most consistent findings in recent nutrition research is that moderate alcohol consumption can improve health and lead to a longer life,” says Eric Rimm, Sc.D., associate professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health...
Red wine has long been considered the elixir of heart health. But you don’t have to crack a bottle of Merlot to drink to your heart’s content, Rimm says. Moderate intake of any boozy beverages can cut your risk of heart disease by up to 40 percent, according to a review of more than 100 prospective studies from the Harvard School of Public Health.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/557658-5-hidden-health-benefits-of-alcohol/
Of course the stoners will say "But but but pot has medicinal benefits as well!"
You'll note that those who say so are referring to medical marijuana.
http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4?op=1
It appears that the moderate consumption of any type of alcohol has health benefits.
5 Hidden Health Benefits of Alcohol
"One of the most consistent findings in recent nutrition research is that moderate alcohol consumption can improve health and lead to a longer life,” says Eric Rimm, Sc.D., associate professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health...
Red wine has long been considered the elixir of heart health. But you don’t have to crack a bottle of Merlot to drink to your heart’s content, Rimm says. Moderate intake of any boozy beverages can cut your risk of heart disease by up to 40 percent, according to a review of more than 100 prospective studies from the Harvard School of Public Health.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/557658-5-hidden-health-benefits-of-alcohol/
Of course the stoners will say "But but but pot has medicinal benefits as well!"
You'll note that those who say so are referring to medical marijuana.
http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4?op=1
WichitaJohn
New member
Sorry, I can't figure out multi quote feature.
CW:
CW:
"On the other hand, even a nightly glass of red wine has the opposite reputation, of decreasing the likelihood of dementia, sustaining mental health, and certainly not of making anyone slow or stupid."--from kgov.com/pot
CW:
CW:
I have read all of his articles and listened to him talk about pot on his show. That's why I wrote the letter to him questioning how he thinks there is such a big difference between alcohol and pot that alcohol should be legal but not pot. The major crux of his argument is that nobody uses pot for any reason but to get high and that it is impossible to partake of pot without getting high. If this claim he made is not true then much of his argument crumbles. And for the 100th time it is NOT true. We don't have to go through all the details.
CW:
It depends on who is impaired and how much they are impaired. But yes, generally speaking I would agree with what Bob wrote as well as your summary. Which is why the Bible warns against being drunk or high. But it does not say not to partake.
CW:
Pot is not mentioned in the Bible. Neither is "getting high". But I do believe that the statements in the Bible about alcohol and getting drunk can and should be applied to pot. Isn't that the exact logic that Pastor Bob uses? He separates the two by saying that anyone who uses pot does so to get high and gets high after any small amount is consumed. This, once again, is not true.
CW:
So if I have ever used pot it makes me an addict? Is anyone who has ever drank alcohol an alcoholic? The first time I tried pot I felt nothing. I use 10 times as much alcohol as I do pot. 2 or 3 nights a week for alcohol. Maybe once or twice a month I will partake pot. Bob Enyart seems fine with drinking alcohol every night.
"On the other hand, even a nightly glass of red wine has the opposite reputation, of decreasing the likelihood of dementia, sustaining mental health, and certainly not of making anyone slow or stupid."--from kgov.com/pot
CW:
No. There are no pot stores here. Pot can be used in hand creams or as a sleep aid or to get high. Alcohol can be used as a disinfectant for a scrape on your skin or as a sleep aid or to get drunk.
CW:
I have read all of his articles and listened to him talk about pot on his show. That's why I wrote the letter to him questioning how he thinks there is such a big difference between alcohol and pot that alcohol should be legal but not pot. The major crux of his argument is that nobody uses pot for any reason but to get high and that it is impossible to partake of pot without getting high. If this claim he made is not true then much of his argument crumbles. And for the 100th time it is NOT true. We don't have to go through all the details.
CW:
It depends on who is impaired and how much they are impaired. But yes, generally speaking I would agree with what Bob wrote as well as your summary. Which is why the Bible warns against being drunk or high. But it does not say not to partake.
Deal with learning about more important matters like your defense and promotion of a culture of death (the multi quote feature is meaningless when you look at the big picture).
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Where is that written in the Bible?
Wrong: I've posted biblical reference to intoxication and mind altering drugs (witchcraft/pharmakeia), so the Bible does talk about both.
Getting a buzz is the same as getting high (they're both mind altering).
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Because like shag, you're a drug addict. Your body is so full of THC that you no longer get high with one drag.
Being that the two threads that you've started on TOL deal with marijuana, and of the 20 posts that you have on TOL, 19 of them are from your two pot threads (the other one is about homosexuality, but you discussed pot in that one as well), it appears that you have a problem.
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
So when you go into your local dope store you adamantly tell them that you don't want dope with a high THC level because you're working on your degree from a nearby seminary and it goes against your faith to get high?
Your two threads don't talk about marijuana based hand creams or using marijuana for doctor prescribed medical purposes, they deal with the legalization of marijuana for recreational purposes.
Quote: Originally posted by aCutlureWarrior
I linked 3 articles by Bob Enyart on page one. I'll gladly go over each article paragraph by paragraph and see if your defense of this harmful drug can stand up against the truth.
Yet you didn't ingest a word of it.
Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Would you agree or disagree that when high on dope (and alcohol) people in general lose control of their mental and moral faculties and are a threat to themselves and those around them?
The person has to be honest with him or herself and know his or her limitations when it comes to alcohol consumption, but remember that the whole purpose behind smoking marijuana is to alter your mind by getting a buzz.
Tell us a little bit about your drug habit UN, i.e. do you use one of those sissy dope vaporizers that shagster uses, or do you take your THC like a real man?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzQxrAbrC2I