If Evolution

[6days]

They flew in. But as is common with birds on oceanic islands lacking mammals, there really wasn't any need to be able to fly. Like the Kakapo parrot or Kiwi of New Zealand, they became large and flightless.

Yes... they lost pre-existing genetic information. This is consistent with the Biblical account.

 

[6days]

Explain to us how the mechanism differs, other than the selective pressure being human.

No matter if selection is artificial or natural... it eliminates.

 

[6days]

You really want to declare my quoting the scriptures as silly?

Quoting the scripture is great. But you always feel a need to put your spin on things. (As with the plants you had problems with).

 

[Lon]

I asked for specific mammals - ones bigger than a small rodent - and I haven't been provided that by anyone.

Lon, I don't see you as an irrational person. Doesn't it bother you a bit (since you believe Dinos lived with all other creatures at the same point in time) that we see humans alongside ALL of the creatures I mentioned, but not one alongside a dinosaur? Or none of the creatures I mentioned alongside a dinosaur? Why would dinosaurs mysteriously be found only with other dinosaurs and small extinct rodents?

:idunno: Job 40:15-24 Job 41:1-34 Isaiah 27:1 Psalm 74:14 Psalm 104:26 :think:

 

[Greg Jennings]

:idunno: Job 40:15-24 Job 41:1-34 Isaiah 27:1 Psalm 74:14 Psalm 104:26 :think:

Lon......you know as well as I that those are hardly evidence of a dinosaur. Not a single description fits well.

Yet you're willing to suspend rational thinking in regards to the fact that no dinosaurs have ever been found alongside any mammal that wasn't an extinct rodent. If you don't realize the problem that poses to your story, then I'm afraid there's not much else I can say

 

[Stripe]

I would use three different radiometric dating methods (you know, like a real scientist, like the ones who spent two decades determining how old the jawbone discovery in Israel today was) but since you reject those then I'll just ask for:

Who said I reject those? :idunno:

Rock strata. The condition is that mammals (except tiny extinct rodent species) are not found in the same strata as dinosaur fossils

How are we lining up strata? Are we only considering mass fossil grave-type sites where a lot of different things are buried together, or are we correlating strata worldwide according to some standard?

 

[The Barbarian]

No matter if selection is artificial or natural... it eliminates.

You're catching on. If a company only eliminates the lowest-performing employees, what happens to the workforce in that company?

Right. You've just discovered what Darwin discovered. Congratulations.

 

[The Barbarian]

How are we lining up strata? Are we only considering mass fossil grave-type sites where a lot of different things are buried together, or are we correlating strata worldwide according to some standard?

For dinosaurs,it's easy. About 66 million years ago, the Earth was struck by a huge meteorite, which left its signature in the form of a thin layer of iridium all over the world. Below that layer, there are dinosaur fossils. Above that layer, there are none. Below that layer, just primitive mammals, mostly tiny rodent-like creatures. Above that layer, all the modern orders.

Simple.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yes... they lost pre-existing genetic information. This is consistent with the Biblical account.

Rather, they gained new information. Dodo DNA has been sequenced. It has new alleles not found in any other pigeon sequence. Still has the genes for flight feathers, wings, etc. Just has a few new ones that made it very large and unable to fly.

As you learned earlier, every mutation adds information to a population. Would you like me to show you again?

 

[The Barbarian]

Better estimate from scripture is a little less than 6,000 years.

Scripture, as you know, doesn't say that. That's an extrapolation invented by the Seventh-Day adventists in the 20th century. Even many creationists don't accept that new idea.

 

[Right Divider]

You really want to declare my quoting the scriptures as silly?

Scripture is always perfect, your "understanding" of it is not. It is twisted.

 

[2003cobra]

They flew in. But as is common with birds on oceanic islands lacking mammals, there really wasn't any need to be able to fly. Like the Kakapo parrot or Kiwi of New Zealand, they became large and flightless.

The introduction of mammals drove dodos to extinction, and may do in the Kakapo as well. Kiwis are mean little suckers and have been known to kick cats to death, so they seem to be doing O.K.

I figured that was the situation, but it doesn’t really work well for those who believe there was a planetary flood lasting months and destroying all but a boatload Of life 5000 years ago.

 

[2003cobra]

Quoting the scripture is great. But you always feel a need to put your spin on things. (As with the plants you had problems with).

Scripture is always perfect, your "understanding" of it is not. It is twisted.

I quoted the passages that said “the earth brought forth” life.

Your argument is with scripture, not with me.

 

[2003cobra]

No, you're wrong. The mutation just happened. Mutations are not induced by need; they arrive randomly. Probably happened before, but of course, uncultivated wheat that failed to shatter was at a huge disadvantage. On the other hand, when humans noticed it, they started planting that instead of the normal wheat...

Something of the same thing with seedless oranges.

The mutation may have happened before, but the seedless orange could not reproduce. But people can graft.

 

[2003cobra]

Scripture, as you know, doesn't say that. That's an extrapolation invented by the Seventh-Day adventists in the 20th century. Even many creationists don't accept that new idea.

I think the blame falls on Bishop James Ussher.

He did not notice the figurative nature of the first 11 chapters of Genesis.

Genesis 4 is a great example. It tells the development of urban life, metallurgy, civil law, and music by matching each to individuals.

Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch; and he built a city, and named it Enoch after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad; and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael the father of Methushael, and Methushael the father of Lamech. 19 Lamech took two wives; the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. 20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who live in tents and have livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all those who play the lyre and pipe. 22 Zillah bore Tubal-cain, who made all kinds of bronze and iron tools. The sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah. 23 Lamech said to his wives: "Adah and Zillah, hear my voice; you wives of Lamech, listen to what I say: I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for striking me. 24 If Cain is avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold." 25 Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth, for she said, "God has appointed for me another child instead of Abel, because Cain killed him." 26 To Seth also a son was born, and he named him Enosh. At that time people began to invoke the name of the Lord.


Note it skips the copper age and compresses the bronze and iron ages to one person’s lifetime.

 

[Right Divider]

No, that was the first creation story that said that.

Genesis 1 says God created the world and the earth brought forth plants and animals.

Plants:
Then God said, "Let the earth put forth vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it." And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.


Water creatures:
And God said, "Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky." 21 So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good


Land creatures:
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures of every kind: cattle and creeping things and wild animals of the earth of every kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals of the earth of every kind, and the cattle of every kind, and everything that creeps upon the ground of every kind. And God saw that it was good.


Of course, the Barbarian may have repeated the teaching of scripture.

I quoted the passages that said “the earth brought forth” life.

Your argument is with scripture, not with me.

You TWIST the scripture for your own purposes.... just like that guy that tempted Christ.

 

[6days]

I quoted the passages that said “the earth brought forth” life.

NRSV Gen.1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.

 

[2003cobra]

RD and 6days, thank you both for reposting the scriptures that say the earth brought forth life.

If you believe the Bible tells the literal history of the earth in the first creation story, then you must accept that the earth and waters brought forth life.

 

[6days]

No matter if selection is artificial or natural... it eliminates.

You're catching on. If a company only eliminates the lowest-performing employees, what happens to the workforce in that company?

I too can be condescending.... you aren't catching on.

You've just discovered what Darwin discovered. Congratulations.

Hmmm. Well thanks for Congrats but Darwin did not discover natural selection. And Darwin was wrong in his understanding of it. Pangenesis was disproved long ago.

As you learned earlier, every mutation adds information to a population. Would you like me to show you again?

No thanks... the disproved ideas you have from the 60's about genetics is not helpful. A loss of function is not a gain of information. (It might be 'New' information though, in the same way removing pages from a book is new info)

 

[6days]

RD and 6days, thank you both for reposting the scriptures that say the earth brought forth life.

As we said, you can't let scripture speak for itself without giving it your spin.... or taking one phrase out of context.
NRSV Gen.1:11 Then God said, “Let the earth put forth vegetation: plants yielding seed, and fruit trees of every kind on earth that bear fruit with the seed in it.” And it was so. 12 The earth brought forth vegetation: plants yielding seed of every kind, and trees of every kind bearing fruit with the seed in it. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, the third day.