I never talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit

[Idolater]

Men can not do "right" if they walk in the flesh.
But if they walk in the Spirit instead, all their deeds will have been done for the glory of God.

As long as they don't . . . you know . . . sin. You can't sin for the glory of God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That is correct.

Men can not do "right" if they walk in the flesh.
But if they walk in the Spirit instead, all their deeds will have been done for the glory of God.

And yet, many Christians, despite their being "in Christ," still walk in the flesh.

 

[Hoping]

There is indeed no sin in God, but there is still sin in us.

Then we are not in God.

Otherwise Paul would not have said: "Do not let sin reign in your bodies... sin won't have dominion over you because you are under grace, not law."

So don't let it reign !
We are dead to sin and to the Law.
What can possibly cause us to commit sin?
Nothing !!!!

 

[Hoping]

And yet, many Christians, despite their being "in Christ," still walk in the flesh.

Their...condition...is in doubt.

 

[marke]

What sins?
Salvation will be given on the last day.
Those who have converted don't commit sins.
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
"We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18))
Sinning show they are still the children of the devil. (1 John 3:20)

Let me ask again. Was John preaching to lost sinners in 1 John when he said "If we say we have no sin (he did not say "if we say we had no sin") we deceive ourselves?

 

[marke]

The sinful act shows they condemned themselves unworthy of eternal life.

What makes a sinner "unworthy" of eternal life" Drunkenness? Smoking? Gambling?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Then we are not in God.

Says who? Not the Bible.

So don't let it reign !

The point is that Paul did NOT say "you are incapable of sinning" but rather "don't let sin reign in your bodies."

Just because you don't let it reign in your body doesn't mean it's been purged from your body.

We are dead to sin and to the Law.

But we are not sinless.

We are no longer identified as "Sinner."
We are identified with Christ.

But that doesn't even REMOTELY imply that we are "without sin"

What can possibly cause us to commit sin?
Nothing !!!!

Wrong.

It's called "the flesh." Again, last I checked, you're still alive.

Paul said those who are dead are freed from sin.

You're not dead yet, therefore you're not freed from sin.

He then said "CONSIDER yourselves freed from sin," because in Christ we are alive to God.

But he's not talking about our bodies, he's talking about our spirits.

He then goes even further later on:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? - Romans 7:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans7:1&version=NKJV

Remember, you're not dead yet.

For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. - Romans 7:15-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans7:15-25&version=NKJV

Sin dwells in the flesh. We are not freed from the flesh. Our Spirits are freed from the law, yes, but our flesh has yet to be glorified. So while we're on earth, we have to put up with the flesh, and therefore sin, because sin dwells in the flesh.

Their...condition...is in doubt.

Not if they've Romans 10:9'ed.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9&version=NKJV

That's a guarantee. Or are you calling Paul a liar?

 

[marke]

As there is no sin in God, who is the light, our confession, and cleansing, must happen prior to our walk in Him.

So the wording of 1 John 7 is slightly off in your opinion? Should the passage have been written, "If we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus must have already cleansed us from sin."?

True, as (nearly) all have committed sin.
Lots of doctrines out there make sin less than sin. They change the name of sin to something else, or dismiss it as unimportant, all in a failed attempt to include darkness, sin, into God, who is the light.

Verse 10 says "if we say we have not sinned we make him a liar." Let's assume that simply means if we say we never sinned before we were saved then we are lying. But verse 8 says "if we say we have no sin" we err. Notice the wording. The passage does not say "if we say we had no sin" as if the verse is intended to refer to our past. The verse does not refer to our past but to our present.

No, as our admission of sin and cleansing happen beforehand, by the blood of Christ at our water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Confession happens first.
Cleansing is second'
The walk in the light, God, is the result.

Let's look at this again. Verse 7 says if we walk in the light Jesus's blood cleanses us from sin. It does not say if we walk in the light then Jesus' blood must have already cleansed us from sin beforehand.

The walk in God, who is the light, is essential for salvation.
Stay in the light, and you won't commit more sin.
The children of the devil, sinners, need to permanently turn from sin, and get washed by the blood of Christ so they can start their walk alongside God's children.

If walking in the light is essential to salvation what happens to those who walk with Jesus at first but then walk no longer with Him?

John 6:66
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

What about babes in Christ? Do they always do those things that please the Father? No.

1 Corinthians 3

3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

 

[marke]

Why are you trying to mix dispensations?

Salvation under the New Covenant (which the Circumcision were under (yes, "were," as there is no "Circumcision" today)



Again, mixing dispensations will only cause confusion.

Under the dispensation of the New Covenant, Jews (and proselytes) had to "endure to the end" by keeping the law. That included repenting and asking for forgiveness for every sin. Their salvation was Christ's return, though every single person under the New Covenant died before His return (since they all died roughly 1900-2000 years ago, and Christ has yet to return). Christ WILL return when the "Fullness of the Gentiles has come in." Their salvation is yet future. They await His return in Heaven.

Those who did not endure, even until they died would not have their sins washed away.

Once God cut off unbelieving Israel in Acts 9, He stopped accepting people into the New Covenant. anyone who had faith, in spite of their adherance to the New Covenant, AFTER Paul's conversion, would be saved and put into the Body of Christ, and NOT the New Covenant.



Still mixing dispensations. John was placed under the New Covenant, because He believed Christ was His Messiah. He died under the New Covenant, not Paul's Gospel of Grace. (Note: I'm NOT saying that he died before Paul's conversion, I'm saying that he was under different house rules than Paul and the Body of Christ. It's not a statement of "when" he died, it's a statement of "what house rules was he under" at the point of his death.) In other words, NO ONE was transferred from the New Covenant to the Body of Christ. They are two separate entities.

I would imagine John was able to endure to the end of his life, awaiting his salvation, that being Christ's return.



This is the case. The command was to "endure to the end" by Jesus. The end did not come during their lifetime, therefore they had to endure even to the end of their lives.

Nobody, Jew or Gentile, ever obtained salvation by keeping the law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

 

[marke]

Yet, Jesus gave the OT Jews the sign of Jonas, so your POV is not quite correct.

God gave many signs to Jews but He declares that signs shall have no part in the preaching of the Cross to modern sinners.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nobody, Jew or Gentile, ever obtained salvation by keeping the law.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Because salvation, per se, has not yet come to the Jews.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. - Romans 11:25-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:25-29&version=NKJV

That hasn't happened yet, therefore Israel has yet to be saved. Which is exactly what I said.

 

[glorydaz]

Let me ask again. Was John preaching to lost sinners in 1 John when he said "If we say we have no sin (he did not say "if we say we had no sin") we deceive ourselves?

If you guys would just accept that John and the other disciples were preaching the Kingdom gospel and not the gospel of grace, you'd stop with this back and forth that has nothing to do with you.

 

[marke]

If you guys would just accept that John and the other disciples were preaching the Kingdom gospel and not the gospel of grace, you'd stop with this back and forth that has nothing to do with you.

You will have to explain to me how salvation is obtained in the Kingdom gospel if it differs from the preaching of the gospel in the gospel of grace doctrine.

 

[marke]

Because salvation, per se, has not yet come to the Jews.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. - Romans 11:25-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans11:25-29&version=NKJV

That hasn't happened yet, therefore Israel has yet to be saved. Which is exactly what I said.

Am I to understand that John was preaching to Jews in 1 John who were not saved and will not be saved until later?

 

[Right Divider]

You will have to explain to me how salvation is obtained in the Kingdom gospel if it differs from the preaching of the gospel in the gospel of grace doctrine.

1. Jesus sent the twelve out to preach the gospel of the kingdom for a couple of years.
2. They did not even know that He had to die.
3. Therefore, they could NOT have been preaching the gospel of the grace of God.

 

[marke]

1. Jesus sent the twelve out to preach the gospel of the kingdom for a couple of years.
2. They did not even know that He had to die.
3. Therefore, they could NOT have been preaching the gospel of the grace of God.

Was the message John preached in 1 John different than the message God intends modern Christians to apply to their lives?

 

[glorydaz]

You will have to explain to me how salvation is obtained in the Kingdom gospel if it differs from the preaching of the gospel in the gospel of grace doctrine.

In the kingdom gospel, they were to believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God and their Messiah. That Messiah that would bring in the kingdom of heaven on earth. The believing Jews were expecting it to come any day, and thus they were to go through the tribulation that preceded Jesus' second coming.

 

[glorydaz]

Am I to understand that John was preaching to Jews in 1 John who were not saved and will not be saved until later?

Most were saved, but wouldn't receive forgiveness of sins until the Lord's coming in glory....if they endured to the end.

 

[marke]

Most were saved, but wouldn't receive forgiveness of sins until the Lord's coming in glory....if they endured to the end.

You say there are some believers who must endure to the end in order to be saved, like Noah holding to the outside of the ark in order to be saved from judgment? That sounds like God will judge them on their works, not on their faith.

 

[marke]

In the kingdom gospel, they were to believe Jesus Christ was the Son of God and their Messiah. That Messiah that would bring in the kingdom of heaven on earth. The believing Jews were expecting it to come any day, and thus they were to go through the tribulation that preceded Jesus' second coming.

All peoples of all nations could be immediately saved and immediately have their sins washed away but not Jews?