Yes, walking in Christ does lift a Christian above sin just like keeping his eyes on Jesus kept Peterm from sinking into the depths. Nevertheless, walking in the flesh does not keep Christians from sin.
I never talk to Jesus or the Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Jefferson
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Galatians 5:15-17
glorydaz
Well-known member
Paul is not speaking of the inability of a person who walks according to the spirit, but of those who willfully walk according to the flesh.
Which is why Paul tells us to reckon ourselves dead to sin. Because we are dead to sin, and do not have to give in to the lusts of the flesh.
We are in the Spirit, not in the Flesh when the Spirit of Christ dwells in us.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
I think this is the problem here. I have no problem if someone only wants to only pray to the Father, but I have to wonder, Why? Do you think that Jesus doesn't want to have that same relationship with you? What about the Holy Spirit? There's no specific prohibition in Scripture against praying to the Son (or the Holy Spirit, for that matter), and there's nothing said in Scripture that could even remotely be interpreted to say that one should only pray to the Father, so why make a fuss about it?
glorydaz
Well-known member
And why would we put ourselves under any law, especially when the Spirit interprets our groanings?
Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Notice how people use the Lord's prayer as the way to pray?
Jesus was talking to the disciples....and the Jews for the coming kingdom.
They are both Spiritual and actual events.
If we weren't really killed with Christ, (Rom 6:6), we also were not raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
That is correct, thanks be to God.
God's seed cannot bring forth evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
Paul was writing about his past, as Rom 7:5 states..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
"Were in the flesh" indicates he/we are no longer in the flesh.
That is your POV in spite of the opening of Rom 6 and verse 3?
"3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
I am not mistaken.
Yes indeed, and it also provided remission of sins.
"And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;" (Luke 3:3)
It is still proof, to unbelievers.
Scripture, please.
God has retained those signs and proofs for His church.
Scripture, please.
And we see Philip, not an apostle but one of the seven, going to meet the Ethiopian eunuch.
And ending up water baptizing him.
Really?
You must have missed Acts 10:47-48..."Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
If baptism was now unnecessary, why did Peter, and the six men who went with him, baptize Cornelius' household?
Nothing except Acts 10:47-48.
The gift of the Holy Ghost, or Spirit baptism if you will, did not succeed water baptism but was added to it.
You have forgotten Crispus, Gaius, and the household of Stephanus, (1 Cor 1:14-16), the twelve at Ephesus, (Acts 19:5), the Thyratiran jailer, (Acts 16:33), and the many at Corinth. (Acts 18:8)
If you are going to use those words of Paul to determine what is important, then knowledge of the birth and life of Jesus Christ, not to mention His resurrection from the dead according to what the prophets told earlier, is also not to be taught.
His miracles and all the proofs of who He was are verboten.
That 'baptism is not the first thing one presents to unbelievers' is all Paul is saying, and that knowledge of Christ taking our sins on Himself and His resurrection from the dead, (the gospel}, were to be preached first.
One step at a time.
In this part of Rom 7, Paul is using the "present-narrative" tense.
Like a flashback.
It is clearly from his past because in verse 5 he said, "when we were in the flesh", indicating he was no longer in the flesh.
Look at Rom 7:23..."But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
Paul answers this lament in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
Rom 7:23 is obviously from Paul's past.
Look at Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Paul already addressed this in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
God has delivered Paul from the "body of this death" by its crucifixion with Christ...at its water baptism into Christ and into His death and burial.
Praise be to God !
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That kingdom is His church.
All are welcome to enter.
Do you ever see any scriptures about Paul taking a bath?
Here are two times where Paul addresses the Lord Jesus Christ..."And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" (Acts 9:5-6)
In verse 13, Ananias speaks to Jesus..."Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:"
Acts 22:19 is another instance by Paul..."And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:"
glorydaz
Well-known member
You can't use John for anything. Your verse or this one?
1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
The only reason we don't "sin" is because we are not under the law, and sin is transgression of the law.
We do plenty of things wrong, but God counts none of those things against us.
No but I do see scriptures about Paul praying and First Corinthians 11:1 says, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."
As I said in post #3: "I wouldn't use the first few days of the beginning of the body of Christ as the norm to be expected."
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That is indeed the case, for those who walk in darkness.
They also cant say they have fellowship with the Father. (1 John 1:6)
Even if that was the only reason, it also nullifies 1 John 1:8.
If it is a sin "we do", God has nothing to do with "us".
As Paul wrote, "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Tim 1:9-10)
Those who sin are still under the law, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Rom 3:20)
I don't see why not, but I don't see any reason not to talk with Jesus either.
What has changed since the formation of the new testament?
Only the world.
We (Christians) are not of this world.
Can you explain how our crucifixion with Christ was physical as well as spiritual?
If Christians cannot sin then why are we told to confess our sins to be made clean?
1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Yes, Rom. 7:5 is referencing the past, while Romans 7:14-25 is referencing Paul's present after he had been saved.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The mistake would be to insist the baptism is in water and not the Spirit while insisting the crucifixion is in the Spirit and not on an actual wooden cross.
We must be careful to seek from God the wisdom to properly understand and interpret scripture. The Bible speaks of atonement for sins, both in the NT and in the OT.
Leviticus 4:31
And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the Lord; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.
Romans 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Just because the same word is used does not mean there are no differences in application or meaning. Likewise, you insist the remission of sins in Luke 3 is obtained by water baptism but that is not what the verse says. God says John Baptist preached repentance for the remission of sins, accompanied by the outward testimony of baptism.
Jesus did not come preaching baptism, He came preaching repentance.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Tongues were never intended to be a sign to the Church. Speaking in tongues was a sign to the Jews that faded away after the Bible was completed and God had set the Jews aside for the church age.
1 Corinthians 1:22
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1 Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1 Corinthians 14
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Jesus instructed the disciples to preach the gospel to the whole world, to Jews first at Jerusalem, then to Judaea, to Samaria, and finally to the Gentiles around the world.
Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Follow the disciples in their ministries in Acts and you will see that they first preached in Jerusalem and Judaea:
Acts 2:14
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Then in Samaria:
Acts 8:5
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Finally to the Gentiles:
Acts 10:45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
The sign gifts were not done away until the Bible was finished and baptism as an outward testimony of an inward filling of the Holy Spirit is still with us today. But even though Philip baptized many in water, they did not all get saved and none of them were baptized in the Spirit at first, which is essential to salvation in the Church age.
Look closely at the passage and notice that the Gentiles did not get saved by baptism but were baptized after they were saved as a testimony of their inward cleansing by the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
You err. Water baptism was added later to the Holy Ghost baptism in Acts 10, not the reverse.
Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas were baptized after they were saved, but so what? Paul did not emphasize water baptism as necessary to salvation when he preached.
1 Corinthians 1
13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.